What role does (Agent) Smith play now? Obviously he still hates Neo, but I guess he's free of being an Agent of the Matrix. Does this mean that the other Agents are out to get him as well? When he saw that one Agent at the park, that Agent was suprised to see Smith. Then of course, Smith made him on of his own.
I assume the version of Smith in Zion (guy in last scene) is gonna play a big role in the next movie. Maybe it's cuz I just saw a uh, certain other movie recently, but I think it'd be interesting if this Smith in Zion somehow ends up helping Neo against the Matrix in the next movie. Perhaps Zion's Smith has a wife and kids and is forced to acknowledge emotions, something he didn't do before and this changes him.
Is this even possible?
I assume the version of Smith in Zion (guy in last scene) is gonna play a big role in the next movie. Maybe it's cuz I just saw a uh, certain other movie recently, but I think it'd be interesting if this Smith in Zion somehow ends up helping Neo against the Matrix in the next movie. Perhaps Zion's Smith has a wife and kids and is forced to acknowledge emotions, something he didn't do before and this changes him.
Is this even possible?
I like that theory and definately agree about it being fun to think about. It is the kind of thing that is missing from at least 95% of hollywood films, the use of the brain.
indeed. if you put it in perspective, it's just a silly sci\fi flick. I think some peolple get overly enthused about these things, but the film did provide my wife, son and I with plenty to discuss afterwards. good clean fun that's all.
As a sequel, I think the film was great and I'm sure it will be the weakest of the three, but good nonetheless. I think that the folks that are dissappointed were expecting that same "fresh" feeling from the original and it just can't happen again, this a sequel it should be viewed as such.
I think for the conclusion they should have one teaser/trailer. too much was shown in trailers prior to the films release I think.
I think the BIG final fight that we saw in the previews is going to be Neo vs that guy who is posessed by Agent Smith, when he is plugged in somehow. Since he is plugging into the Matrix from the outside, he will not be "bound by rules" of the matrix anymore, so he will be in essence Neo's equal in ability. The rest of the Smith's that stand around are the normal Agent Smiths that we saw in this movie.
Since they will both be equals with insane powers, this will probably be the best fight scene in history. I heard that Yeun Woo Ping siad that this fight will be his masterpiece. And knowing his work, that's saying a lot.
As you can tell I'm a tad bit excited... now I'm off to my 3 hr night class. If I didn't have that stupid class I'd be seeing it again.
I like what Lucas is doing for digital, but I don't think even he has an issue with framerate. AFAIK all the new digital cameras are still being built around 24fps. Eventually I guess the tech will get good enough that higher framerate will be almost free and you won't need a George Lucas to go on a crusade to make it available.
Sorry, didn't have time to read thru every post...hopefully my impressions aren't a repeat that will generate annoyance...
It would seem the war is not between humans and machines, but instead between programs.
Agent Smith was apparently morphed when Neo "destroyed" him in the first film. And now his program seems to have lost its association with the master program. Further, he can infect any other program, including agents, and morph them into a duplicate program of himself, which is enough to really cause a balancing problem within the master program. In the first movie, he was quite adament about getting out of the Matrix ("It's the smell...if there is such a thing..."). He knows that once Neo reaches the Architect, that the whole program will start over again with version 7.0, and Smith will continue to be stuck in an infinite loop.
Except this time, some things happened that were different from the previous versions: first, Agent Smith got out of the Matrix by infecting a resistence fighter and exiting to a hovercraft. Then Smith attempts to assassinate Neo in Zion...thus preventing him from full-filling the "prophecy" that would result in a version 7.0.
Rogue programs are rampant, and causing a bunch of problems. And apparently, they are not deleted with installation of newer versions of the Matrix, and also are continuing to modify their programming.
It seems the Oracle program was written so that each version of the Matrix properly followed the exact recreation (deja vu) of each previous version before it, culminating in the destruction and recreation of Zion. Obviously, the machines need Zion to exist, and to be repeatedly destroyed. Why, I'm not sure, but it may be because there are certain "gifted" people ("potentials") that need to be unplugged from the Matrix, or otherwise they would cause problems that cannot be solved with the software. So there needs to be someone available to unplug them and get them out, thus the necessity of Zion. The reason it needs to be repeatedly destroyed may be so that it begins again with only 16, and then grow again to a quarter-million, with most or all of them not having any idea just how old the Matrix truly is, keeping each generation ignorant of just how much control the Matrix truly has...and also ignorant that they are being controlled while they believe they are "free".
Neo somehow knew the Sentinals were about to send a bomb to the hovercraft...they didn't use bombs before, so how would he know this? Then he could feel the Sentinels coming toward them. And then he knocked them out. I'm not sure why he was able to do all of this while unplugged, but I'm pretty sure the machines never expected it, or knew that it was possible. So now the Matrix has problems both within its own programming...which cannot be upgraded now to v7.0, and has a buttload of rogue programs running around...and also in the real world, where a truly gifted person is about ready to wreak havoc from the outside.
Even if I'm totally off base, Revolutions should make for an interesting conclusion...
It would seem the war is not between humans and machines, but instead between programs.
Agent Smith was apparently morphed when Neo "destroyed" him in the first film. And now his program seems to have lost its association with the master program. Further, he can infect any other program, including agents, and morph them into a duplicate program of himself, which is enough to really cause a balancing problem within the master program. In the first movie, he was quite adament about getting out of the Matrix ("It's the smell...if there is such a thing..."). He knows that once Neo reaches the Architect, that the whole program will start over again with version 7.0, and Smith will continue to be stuck in an infinite loop.
Except this time, some things happened that were different from the previous versions: first, Agent Smith got out of the Matrix by infecting a resistence fighter and exiting to a hovercraft. Then Smith attempts to assassinate Neo in Zion...thus preventing him from full-filling the "prophecy" that would result in a version 7.0.
Rogue programs are rampant, and causing a bunch of problems. And apparently, they are not deleted with installation of newer versions of the Matrix, and also are continuing to modify their programming.
It seems the Oracle program was written so that each version of the Matrix properly followed the exact recreation (deja vu) of each previous version before it, culminating in the destruction and recreation of Zion. Obviously, the machines need Zion to exist, and to be repeatedly destroyed. Why, I'm not sure, but it may be because there are certain "gifted" people ("potentials") that need to be unplugged from the Matrix, or otherwise they would cause problems that cannot be solved with the software. So there needs to be someone available to unplug them and get them out, thus the necessity of Zion. The reason it needs to be repeatedly destroyed may be so that it begins again with only 16, and then grow again to a quarter-million, with most or all of them not having any idea just how old the Matrix truly is, keeping each generation ignorant of just how much control the Matrix truly has...and also ignorant that they are being controlled while they believe they are "free".
Neo somehow knew the Sentinals were about to send a bomb to the hovercraft...they didn't use bombs before, so how would he know this? Then he could feel the Sentinels coming toward them. And then he knocked them out. I'm not sure why he was able to do all of this while unplugged, but I'm pretty sure the machines never expected it, or knew that it was possible. So now the Matrix has problems both within its own programming...which cannot be upgraded now to v7.0, and has a buttload of rogue programs running around...and also in the real world, where a truly gifted person is about ready to wreak havoc from the outside.
Even if I'm totally off base, Revolutions should make for an interesting conclusion...
I GOTTA SEE THIS MOVIE AGAIN!!!!
Going tomorrow for 8 oclock show tomorrow.
Man the fight scenes were freaken amazing, but the conversation between the engineer of the matrix and Neo was a bit confusing so hopefully this will clear things up.
Going tomorrow for 8 oclock show tomorrow.
Man the fight scenes were freaken amazing, but the conversation between the engineer of the matrix and Neo was a bit confusing so hopefully this will clear things up.
they should double the framerate to 48, they do have cameras that record like this and it is a nice jump in moving image quality. It would cause an increase in visual effects cost by doubling the number of frames that have to be rendered/altered, but i think it is a much better solution than digital projectors, which cost a ton right now and constantly need repairs and do not last as long as a traditional projector.
The way I saw that was the architect could see all the possibilities with which Neo, the 6th "the one", would respond. The Neo we know is 1 continuation of all possibilities seen by the architect.
dfi
The architect needs Zion (and zion is PART of the program btw) because w/o it the matrix is TOO perfect and the human mind rejects it. the existence of Zion forces everyone to make a choice to stay in the (perfect) matrix or take the pill and go into the (imperfect) matrix. It's CHOICE that keeps the humans subjugated because they believe they are making a choice.
That was Neo's realization in the room with the architect and the reason he choose Trinity over destroying the program and having everything start all over again.
Matrix 3 will resolve this. Neo will find a way to leave the (perfect) Matrix and the (imperfect) matrix (aka zion) and find the "REAL" Reality.
Matrix is fake
ALso the scene where you see jesus when he enters the matrix... resembles that religion is a form of control
Ziptar
Platinum Member
- Jul 7, 2001
- 2,077
- 0
- 86
OK My take on it..... this is gonna be llllllllooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg... Bear with me....
Yeah there were bible references, and yes Satan is French... are you suprised?? I am not
but that's not what struck me... What made it clear for me was the Architect...
Look at it from a software/system design standpoint. Programmers will get this...
Remember the matrix only exists to to keep humans alive to produce energy. Energy for what?? to keep the matrix going? pointless... There is a mainframe we have been told that but, in Reloaded they never get to it...
Neo is a bug in the Matrix, there were 5 previous versions with 5 bugs, Neo is the sixth in the sixth version.. The room where the Arctitecht exists is a system outside the Matrix. It's in a middleware/messaging system between the Matrix and the Mainframe. The entire interaction between the Architect and Neo was a Debug session. The Architect told Neo that there would be a new version, and he had to proceed to the mainframe and give it the anomolie in order for the new version to be reloaded, if he did not everyone would die.. The Architect Lied!! He needed to trap the error in order to fix it . Neo dind't accept the parameter. No one would die if he went back into the Matrix, if Neo returned there would be no debug, no hotfix and no new version. The architect couldn't very well trash the old version without a new one otherwise everyone would die, then they would have no power. So he lied.. Neo didn't take the bait... You'll notice the world did not end when he went back. He didn't lie about Trinity, she did die... Neo just brought her back..
The Oracle is also a debug routine.. she handles things differently, she interacts with Neo in order to debug him. She also LIES! remember in the first movie she said he wasn't the One... Why would she tell him that it was either a Lie or she doesn't know as much as she lets on. She was right that Neo's road ended at the door to the main frame, and if he had gone through that door of the architects little room it would have but, he didn't.
Ok so what about Zion?? I get the imperssion Zion is a system on the outside of this middle system behind a Firewall or exists in a DMZ outside of this middleware system. Why else would the Sentinals keep on digging after they attacked Zion?? Where are they going??? The people in Zion access the matrix via this middle system that has been hacked and protected via this DMZ/Firewall. Why don't the people of Zion realize this?? I dunno maybe the system in which they exist and is hooked to the firewall/DMZis also a matrix (anti-matrix???) The Arcitect refers to destroing Zion, and if fact maybe they did destroy the connection to it and as far as he is concerned that would destroy Zion.. then again he could be LYING!!
So the folks from Zion don't realize they are in yet another system, however in the end Neo does realize this, and realizes that it operates under the same priciples and rules and is able to stop the sentenals. The other ship didn't do it, the ships need to be shut down in order to do an EMP. Why the comma?? dunno maybe it takes more to stop the programs in the middle system, maybe the realization of this put him in tyhe coma. Remember he blacked out in the first one when he found out about The Matrix.
What's with Agent Smith?? Well he is still a program, however he is a rouge and apperently has some of Neo's code. Rouge programs we are told do exist in the mtarix and are ghost, vampires, and whatnot. However like all of the other programs in the Matrix outside of the French Satan, The oracle, and the Key maker he has very little knowledge of systems outside the matrix. In the first movie we know he knows an outside exists and wants to get there but, Why? He also has a need to get into Zion in order to do this. At the end of the last Matrix he is already pretty much a rouge program. So his motivation is the same is Neo, get out of the Matrix and and be FREE and maybe take control of the Main frame. At this point though he is not very bright, If he was he would have realized he is capable of the same things as Neo. All 100 of him could have taken off after Neo when he flew away. So he is still bound and ruled by the contructs of the Matrix.
What about the other smith?? Yeah the guy that gets copied and into Zion?? Simple same Smith different copy but he is connected to Neo as well and Neo connected to him. What bugged me was what was with the ZionSmith cutting his hand making it Bleed and then shaking Neo's hand?? Was the Blood another Code exchange perhaps?
This could explain why Zionsmith survives the sentinals and is also in a comma, he and Neo are linked by common code and common purpose. I think in revolutions you will see Neo and Smith become one unit...
Ok there is more but this is long enough....
Oh yeah, except this... I thought the Primal / Rave bit was way too long and seemed out of place too.. I think that is just window dressing to spice up Trnity and Neo getting it on...
Yeah there were bible references, and yes Satan is French... are you suprised?? I am not
but that's not what struck me... What made it clear for me was the Architect...
Look at it from a software/system design standpoint. Programmers will get this...
Remember the matrix only exists to to keep humans alive to produce energy. Energy for what?? to keep the matrix going? pointless... There is a mainframe we have been told that but, in Reloaded they never get to it...
Neo is a bug in the Matrix, there were 5 previous versions with 5 bugs, Neo is the sixth in the sixth version.. The room where the Arctitecht exists is a system outside the Matrix. It's in a middleware/messaging system between the Matrix and the Mainframe. The entire interaction between the Architect and Neo was a Debug session. The Architect told Neo that there would be a new version, and he had to proceed to the mainframe and give it the anomolie in order for the new version to be reloaded, if he did not everyone would die.. The Architect Lied!! He needed to trap the error in order to fix it . Neo dind't accept the parameter. No one would die if he went back into the Matrix, if Neo returned there would be no debug, no hotfix and no new version. The architect couldn't very well trash the old version without a new one otherwise everyone would die, then they would have no power. So he lied.. Neo didn't take the bait... You'll notice the world did not end when he went back. He didn't lie about Trinity, she did die... Neo just brought her back..
The Oracle is also a debug routine.. she handles things differently, she interacts with Neo in order to debug him. She also LIES! remember in the first movie she said he wasn't the One... Why would she tell him that it was either a Lie or she doesn't know as much as she lets on. She was right that Neo's road ended at the door to the main frame, and if he had gone through that door of the architects little room it would have but, he didn't.
Ok so what about Zion?? I get the imperssion Zion is a system on the outside of this middle system behind a Firewall or exists in a DMZ outside of this middleware system. Why else would the Sentinals keep on digging after they attacked Zion?? Where are they going??? The people in Zion access the matrix via this middle system that has been hacked and protected via this DMZ/Firewall. Why don't the people of Zion realize this?? I dunno maybe the system in which they exist and is hooked to the firewall/DMZis also a matrix (anti-matrix???) The Arcitect refers to destroing Zion, and if fact maybe they did destroy the connection to it and as far as he is concerned that would destroy Zion.. then again he could be LYING!!
So the folks from Zion don't realize they are in yet another system, however in the end Neo does realize this, and realizes that it operates under the same priciples and rules and is able to stop the sentenals. The other ship didn't do it, the ships need to be shut down in order to do an EMP. Why the comma?? dunno maybe it takes more to stop the programs in the middle system, maybe the realization of this put him in tyhe coma. Remember he blacked out in the first one when he found out about The Matrix.
What's with Agent Smith?? Well he is still a program, however he is a rouge and apperently has some of Neo's code. Rouge programs we are told do exist in the mtarix and are ghost, vampires, and whatnot. However like all of the other programs in the Matrix outside of the French Satan, The oracle, and the Key maker he has very little knowledge of systems outside the matrix. In the first movie we know he knows an outside exists and wants to get there but, Why? He also has a need to get into Zion in order to do this. At the end of the last Matrix he is already pretty much a rouge program. So his motivation is the same is Neo, get out of the Matrix and and be FREE and maybe take control of the Main frame. At this point though he is not very bright, If he was he would have realized he is capable of the same things as Neo. All 100 of him could have taken off after Neo when he flew away. So he is still bound and ruled by the contructs of the Matrix.
What about the other smith?? Yeah the guy that gets copied and into Zion?? Simple same Smith different copy but he is connected to Neo as well and Neo connected to him. What bugged me was what was with the ZionSmith cutting his hand making it Bleed and then shaking Neo's hand?? Was the Blood another Code exchange perhaps?
This could explain why Zionsmith survives the sentinals and is also in a comma, he and Neo are linked by common code and common purpose. I think in revolutions you will see Neo and Smith become one unit...
Ok there is more but this is long enough....
Oh yeah, except this... I thought the Primal / Rave bit was way too long and seemed out of place too.. I think that is just window dressing to spice up Trnity and Neo getting it on...
Since the Matrix is MultiTier-ed - More than 2 layers for sure, I think Zion is just the catalyst that causes so many humans in the 2nd matrix *real world* to be the energy producing source for the matrix layer outside that. I mean, imagine how much energy the rave scene produced!
dcdomain
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2000
- 5,158
- 0
- 71
Ah, very similar to how I feel. But my expectations were lowered substantially after reading the reviews and speaking with people who saw it the previous night. So it was as I expected. I'm looking forward to REVOLUTIONS, and actually watching all three together. But one thing the first one had that the other two probably won't, a... I don't know, I can watch Matrix over and over and always enjoy it. But with the second one, I don't think I could do the same... something with the pacing or story...
Lots of stuff to talk about, but one thing that did not impress me was the music. I didn't like it and didn't think it fit the fight scenes well at all.
It's quite possible that I'm comparing it all to the lobby scene in the first movie and Propeller Heads, Spybreak. That music fit perfectly IMO at least.
It's quite possible that I'm comparing it all to the lobby scene in the first movie and Propeller Heads, Spybreak. That music fit perfectly IMO at least.
I really loved the movie... Zion was boring at times... way too long, but the fight scenes were great.
I loved the burly brawl, but surprisingly to me I think one of my favorite fight scenes was when Neo fought the 3 agents near the beginning. For some reason it just was really really cool to me... reminded me of the first movie
I've seen it twice, and its definately better the second time around.
I loved the burly brawl, but surprisingly to me I think one of my favorite fight scenes was when Neo fought the 3 agents near the beginning. For some reason it just was really really cool to me... reminded me of the first movie
I've seen it twice, and its definately better the second time around.lots of good stuff in this thread!
just saw the movie
i think you really have to be into the matrix to fully appreciate it. kinda like star wars episode II
(although i hate that comparison, it's kinda accurate)
music in reloaded was pretty weak too i would agree, compared to the first one
good movie though, they got lots of new characters introduced and lots of plot development. i enjoyed it, but judging by audience reaction as a whole, i don't think it really clicked
just saw the movie
i think you really have to be into the matrix to fully appreciate it. kinda like star wars episode II
(although i hate that comparison, it's kinda accurate)
music in reloaded was pretty weak too i would agree, compared to the first one
good movie though, they got lots of new characters introduced and lots of plot development. i enjoyed it, but judging by audience reaction as a whole, i don't think it really clicked
Originally posted by: sohcrates
lots of good stuff in this thread!
just saw the movie
i think you really have to be into the matrix to fully appreciate it. kinda like star wars episode II
(although i hate that comparison, it's kinda accurate)
music in reloaded was pretty weak too i would agree, compared to the first one
good movie though, they got lots of new characters introduced and lots of plot development. i enjoyed it, but judging by audience reaction as a whole, i don't think it really clicked
I think the music in the trailers was better than the music chosen for the movies.
That Speed Demon track and Supermoves both tore sh!t up. The Juno Reactor/Don Davis Burly Brawl track wasn't bad, it just lacked the thump of the previous two.
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