**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[badb0y]

Comparing D3 to D2 is pretty pointless unless you regurgitate a point already discussed in this thread a while back: without the AH, you would have little-no idea what the best is and how you long for those items; aside from stalking players equipment you're interacting with directly. The AH is a direct and constant reminder that you're not as awesome as you hoped you were. Take it in stride.

Personally, I enjoy D3. I like the challenge of hitting the lottery and not everyone being able to easily have all the leet gear just handed to them. Granted, there's quite a few things I would change, but each patch has been providing necessary updates and systems to make the game more enjoyable and balanced for each class and each person's playstyle.

With anything in life, time put in will be the ultimate reward deciding factor. Why should this [game] be any different? Without a challenge, there's little purpose to continue to play.

I don't get the bolded....I knew all the Unique items and Rune-words by heart and most of the people I played with did as well. Just because you never saw the item drop doesn't mean you didn't see anyone else wearing it in a public game or that you didn't look it up on the Arreat Summit.

Also this:

Seems accurate.

 

[OCNewbie]

IMG

Seems accurate.

Agreed. Sums things up fairly nicely, especially the loot being totally uninspired, and too much focus on your main stat.

 

[pandemonium]

Witty infographic does justice to a lot of pointers and I'll agree to them, but as I said before, the AH is a constant reminder and one point to be considered in the comparison of the two games. Do you know how many hours you logged onto your characters on D2 and can you compare that to D3?

I agree things aren't perfect, but it isn't D2v3, it's D3. It's a different system [albeit more developed to align with more WoW players' accomodations than D2 players in all honesty]. If you really hate it that much, TL2 is a much better alternative in terms of a lot of things. Unfortunately for me, staring at cartoony graphics isn't my idea of a fulfilling gaming experience for more than 20 minutes.

 

[nurturedhate]

OK, I have to chime in.

That infographic is terrible. Let's dissect a little.

Point 1: Primary stats are the only thing that matter in d3 but d2 had a wide variety. The only stat that mattered in d2 was + all skills, they even use a picture of Andariel's visage. In d3 primary stats do matter, that is why they are called primary stats but if you just have say str and vit you will get no where in inferno. You still need crit chance, crit dmg, all resist, even attack speed once certain break points are met.

Point 2: Wep dmg is all that matters. I like how they take a good starting end game weapon and try to use it as a bad weapon. Many monks would love to have that in their off hand. Large life on hit and a socket, that is pretty good. Throw a + crit dmg gem in there and you are good to go.

Point 3: All those low level items? What did they all have in common? Yea, + all skills. See point 1.

Point 4: OMG + skills.... see the pattern

Point 5: A choice in geming/runewords in d2? There was none. It was Enigma all day every day. And guess what, among other things, it has + all skills on it! I really really enjoyed farming for a white weapon with 3 sockets.


This isn't to say that d2 doesn't have superior aspects compared to d3 and vice versa. I feel a lot of people remember the end of d2's lifetime compared to the first few years. You could get d2 today, level a character in a day to cap and be geared with the best of everything within another day. People literally throw gear around since so much of it has been farmed or duped. Two days for an OP character... That is what the most vocal want. They want everything and they want it now and they will yell if they don't get it. But that approach does not produce a long lasting product. In the beginning d2 was very much like d3, hunting for perfect rare rolls. You had to farm and farm and farm. Then bots were introduced. Then the market was flooded. SoJ's for currency and such.

On a side note, act 3 farming and uber/machine runs are more fun than Baal and pindleskin farming. To each their own though.

 

[lupi]

Rob Pardo Regarding Jay Wilson
A message from Rob Pardo regarding Jay Wilson.



Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

This thread saddens me greatly. I know that the Battle.net forums have earned a reputation for rough justice, but I do not believe justice is being served by how people are speaking about Jay’s departure from Diablo III.

I am very proud of the Diablo franchise and what the team was able to accomplish with Diablo III. As a gamer I have enjoyed the game and played for many, many nights with friends and family. I’m not, however, going to use that as an excuse. The Diablo community deserves an even better game from Blizzard and we are committed to improving it. We have a talented team in place and have no intention of stopping work on Diablo III until it is the best game in the franchise.

I’m the only person in this thread who has actually worked with Jay. I hired Jay to head up the Diablo project and had the pleasure of getting to work with him, both in building the team and designing the game. He has great design instincts and has added so much to the franchise with his feel for visceral combat, boss battles, and an unparalleled knack for making it fun to smash bad guys. I’ve worked with many, many designers at Blizzard and Jay is one of the best. He has a great career at Blizzard ahead of him and I guarantee that you will enjoy Jay’s game designs in future Blizzard games.

If you love Diablo as much as we do, then please continue to let us know how you feel we can improve the game. If you still feel the need to dish out blame, then I would prefer you direct it at me. I was the executive producer on the project; I hired Jay and I gave him advice and direction throughout the development process. I was ultimately responsible for the game we released and take full responsibility for the quality of the result.

 

[rstrohkirch]

OK, I have to chime in.

That infographic is terrible. Let's dissect a little.

I'm going to point out 2 things but I won't continue because past that as it's a waste of time.

Point 1: Primary stats are the only thing that matter in d3 but d2 had a wide variety. The only stat that mattered in d2 was + all skills, they even use a picture of Andariel's visage. In d3 primary stats do matter, that is why they are called primary stats but if you just have say str and vit you will get no where in inferno. You still need crit chance, crit dmg, all resist, even attack speed once certain break points are met.

Ok, so it does not say that D2 had a wide variety but neither does D3. The entire point of the first section was that in D2 you can find a piece of gear that would be desirable to any class. In D3, almost all gear needs to have the primary stat roll for your class for you to even consider it. All classes in D3 need CC/CD/AR/IAS but if you find that stuff on an item and then it rolls another stat besides your classes primary then it's not valuable to you.

If your barb finds Andariel's Visage in D3 and it's primary stat roll is dex then it's not valuable to you. That helm just alienated 60% of the classes because it randomly rolls 1 of the 3 primary stats. That same helm in D2 could be worn by all classes every time it drops.

Point 2: Wep dmg is all that matters. I like how they take a good starting end game weapon and try to use it as a bad weapon. Many monks would love to have that in their off hand. Large life on hit and a socket, that is pretty good. Throw a + crit dmg gem in there and you are good to go.

That weapon is so far from end game that it makes me think you either don't play the game or just started. That weapon wouldn't even sell on the AH for 5k gold. Matter fact there's a better one on the AH right now for a buy out of 4k gold. I can kill 2 monsters in inferno and have enough gold to buy that weapon off the AH. So it's point is correct in that if the DPS on the weapon is low than it doesn't matter how good of rolls on the weapon are it's worthless. One stat on the item determines if it's even worth looking at.

 

[ixelion]

I just started a Wizard and need some advice/info:

I unlocked Disintegrate and don't find it as effective as Arcane Torrent even with no runes, with DT doing 170% and AT doing 210%, moreover I find the AOE from AT to be "in play" more often since enemies tend to be clustered especially when they get into melee range. What am I missing here?

In addition:

Familiar seems anemic compared to Storm Armor, am I going to do 20% of 100% damage? I don't understand - no runes for either skill.

I am using Frost nova with Shatter, so more damage plus AOE gives me a greater chance of Shatter triggering....

 

[rstrohkirch]

Higher level skills/runes/passives aren't always better than other lower level counterparts.

 

[ixelion]

Higher level skills/runes/passives aren't always better than other lower level counterparts.

I understand this, my point is I have no reason to use Familiar over Storm Armor since the damage output is so damn low on FA.

I suppose what I am seeing is that some Wizard staring skills do not reflect what the skill is really about until you start unlocking some runes? Can someone explain to me haw Familiar can be useful over something like Storm Armor?

Also Hydra damage output also seems very low, moreover it does not pull aggro so it doesn't have any control/defense aspects.

maybe I just need to unlock more runes.

 

[badb0y]

Witty infographic does justice to a lot of pointers and I'll agree to them, but as I said before, the AH is a constant reminder and one point to be considered in the comparison of the two games. Do you know how many hours you logged onto your characters on D2 and can you compare that to D3?

I agree things aren't perfect, but it isn't D2v3, it's D3. It's a different system [albeit more developed to align with more WoW players' accomodations than D2 players in all honesty]. If you really hate it that much, TL2 is a much better alternative in terms of a lot of things. Unfortunately for me, staring at cartoony graphics isn't my idea of a fulfilling gaming experience for more than 20 minutes.

I played D3 for roughly 700 hours before I quit. This is nothing compared to the time I spent playing Diablo 2/LoD. I spent like 6 years playing that game and I quit playing it around 2008.

I already moved on from Diablo 3 it couldn't even hold me for 7 months lol. I play TQ and PoE now. Mainly playing TQ for now and I am going start PoE seriously when it goes into Open Beta on the 23rd.

 

[Schfifty Five]

I'm going to point out 2 things but I won't continue because past that as it's a waste of time.



Ok, so it does not say that D2 had a wide variety but neither does D3. The entire point of the first section was that in D2 you can find a piece of gear that would be desirable to any class. In D3, almost all gear needs to have the primary stat roll for your class for you to even consider it. All classes in D3 need CC/CD/AR/IAS but if you find that stuff on an item and then it rolls another stat besides your classes primary then it's not valuable to you.

If your barb finds Andariel's Visage in D3 and it's primary stat roll is dex then it's not valuable to you. That helm just alienated 60% of the classes because it randomly rolls 1 of the 3 primary stats. That same helm in D2 could be worn by all classes every time it drops.





That weapon is so far from end game that it makes me think you either don't play the game or just started. That weapon wouldn't even sell on the AH for 5k gold. Matter fact there's a better one on the AH right now for a buy out of 4k gold. I can kill 2 monsters in inferno and have enough gold to buy that weapon off the AH. So it's point is correct in that if the DPS on the weapon is low than it doesn't matter how good of rolls on the weapon are it's worthless. One stat on the item determines if it's even worth looking at.

Not entirely true. There are instances where a trifecta glove/ammy/ring would still be extremely powerful even with a wrong primary stat on it.

To take it even further, an Echoing Fury with 1250+ dps, OS, and INT would be far more desirable than an EF with say, 900 dps, OS, Str.

 

[Wyndru]

Haha, I just got Smash! Jay, Smash!

I didn't even know this achievement existed. Strange timing.

 

[badb0y]

OK, I have to chime in.

That infographic is terrible. Let's dissect a little.

Point 1: Primary stats are the only thing that matter in d3 but d2 had a wide variety. The only stat that mattered in d2 was + all skills, they even use a picture of Andariel's visage. In d3 primary stats do matter, that is why they are called primary stats but if you just have say str and vit you will get no where in inferno. You still need crit chance, crit dmg, all resist, even attack speed once certain break points are met.

Point 2: Wep dmg is all that matters. I like how they take a good starting end game weapon and try to use it as a bad weapon. Many monks would love to have that in their off hand. Large life on hit and a socket, that is pretty good. Throw a + crit dmg gem in there and you are good to go.

Point 3: All those low level items? What did they all have in common? Yea, + all skills. See point 1.

Point 4: OMG + skills.... see the pattern

Point 5: A choice in geming/runewords in d2? There was none. It was Enigma all day every day. And guess what, among other things, it has + all skills on it! I really really enjoyed farming for a white weapon with 3 sockets.


This isn't to say that d2 doesn't have superior aspects compared to d3 and vice versa. I feel a lot of people remember the end of d2's lifetime compared to the first few years. You could get d2 today, level a character in a day to cap and be geared with the best of everything within another day. People literally throw gear around since so much of it has been farmed or duped. Two days for an OP character... That is what the most vocal want. They want everything and they want it now and they will yell if they don't get it. But that approach does not produce a long lasting product. In the beginning d2 was very much like d3, hunting for perfect rare rolls. You had to farm and farm and farm. Then bots were introduced. Then the market was flooded. SoJ's for currency and such.

On a side note, act 3 farming and uber/machine runs are more fun than Baal and pindleskin farming. To each their own though.

Point 1: You already started by losing the argument. The + all skill stat worked for every class therefore it led to multiple uses of an item. An example is Shako, almost every class could use the Shako in Diablo 2 effectively but how many classes in D3 can use something like a Mempo with Strength on it?

Point 2: Not sure if serious, people wouldn't take that weapon if it was given to them for free.

Point 3: All those low level items could be effectively used in Hell in Diablo 2/LoD. What low level items can you use in Inferno in Diablo 3? Leoric's Signet? People just use that for the EXP buff and now that they are increasing the XP gained in higher MP levels no one is going to use that either.

Point 4: Not even sure you understand what is being depicted here. It's a helm that lets a Barbarian shape shift like a druid. I once built my whole Barb around that 1 item and you know what? It worked really well in end-game and I could use it to PvP. Can you do something like that in D3? No we are all going to be WW Barbs for teh epic lootz in Act 3 all day!!

Point 5: Runewords and some Unique items were arguably the best in the end game but there were builds that used other forms of weapons more effectively. I once met a person Diablo 2 that was a FoH Paladin. He wan't using a Hoto or some other generic caster weapon he had a 5 socketed Scepter with +3 to FOH and +3 to some other skill(Can't remember probably conviction) and he had all the sockets full of lightning jewels.

Don't know what you are trying to say about the duping and botting in Diablo 2, Diablo 3 has dupes and bots too.

On a sidenote: The Inferno Machine was directly lifted from Diablo 2 LoD's Uber Trist run. As for farming Act 3 over and over.....it's not fun at all. In D2 my farming route has way more variety since I can jump from Act to Act without caring about anything else.

 

[silverpig]

Point 1: You already started by losing the argument. The + all skill stat worked for every class therefore it led to multiple uses of an item. An example is Shako, almost every class could use the Shako in Diablo 2 effectively but how many classes in D3 can use something like a Mempo with Strength on it?

I'm a DH and I use an IK helm and IK gloves. The gloves have dex as a primary stat, the helm is str of course with a dex secondary. I like the resist bonus.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Not entirely true. There are instances where a trifecta glove/ammy/ring would still be extremely powerful even with a wrong primary stat on it.

To take it even further, an Echoing Fury with 1250+ dps, OS, and INT would be far more desirable than an EF with say, 900 dps, OS, Str.

Obviously it won't hold true to every stat combination especially on items that can roll trifecta stats. You would simply sell the item on the AH to fund one that would better suit your character. You also proved the second point in regards to dps on weapons.

 

[IAteYourMother]

When your game complexity regresses after 10 years, you're going to have a bad time. The gem/socket bonuses were so uninspired as to be insulting.

 

[badb0y]

I'm a DH and I use an IK helm and IK gloves. The gloves have dex as a primary stat, the helm is str of course with a dex secondary. I like the resist bonus.

First of all, using IK helm and gloves as a DH is not optimal, you can get way better gains with something like a Mempo or even an Andy's Visage. Second, because the IK items has rolled Dex it has completely alienated the Wizard, WD, and the Barb.

In my example regardless of what class you are you will always find use for a Shako.

 

[Imp]

People still bitter that D3 isn't their beloved decade old D2? Ya know, the game that came out a decade ago when they were, ya know, a decade younger? No way that people mature and tastes change...

Regardless, it's hillarious lately seeing people logging into the game just to use the General Chat channel to bitch about the game for about an hour straight. "OMFG, D3 sucks and is such a waste of my time".

 

[stag3]

wizard bug

If You have a 2H weapon with 6% lifesteal, equip it, cast storm armor and equip back your old weapon, you will have the full duration of storm armor as if you have a 6% lifesteal weapon.

 

[Adrenaline]

People still bitter that D3 isn't their beloved decade old D2? Ya know, the game that came out a decade ago when they were, ya know, a decade younger? No way that people mature and tastes change...

Regardless, it's hillarious lately seeing people logging into the game just to use the General Chat channel to bitch about the game for about an hour straight. "OMFG, D3 sucks and is such a waste of my time".

There is no way a game company will come out with a new game (D3) ten years after their last one (LoD), in a great franchise that will take an awesome game (D2) that changed over time to become even better (LoD) and revert it back to what appears to be worse than the original beta (D2 beta)...

Jay Wilson did that.

D3 is not an outright awful game, but it came close too many people, but it severely lacks and is severely flawed at the basic level of the game, itemization of gear. Blizzard is making it more like WoW, BoA items for everyone !!!!!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Bottom line for me, D3 is just not as fun as other games. I've got 400-500 hours total on it, which is alot for me...and the only way I progressed to where I wanted to be (keeping up with buddies who apparently get great drops) was to buy gold then hit up the AH. If I wanted to peddle items, I would stick to FS/FT.

My MF matches other peoples, I rode with them and killed elites in a timely manner, and I haven't gotten a single item that was worth a damn. The two set items I found, an IK belt and a Tal Rasha's belt, I gave them to my buds because they weren't worth much on the AH.

But whatever, I gave it the ol' college try and didn't make out like others...that's the nature of the game, and they've lost another player.

 

[Wyndru]

When your game complexity regresses after 10 years, you're going to have a bad time. The gem/socket bonuses were so uninspired as to be insulting.

I don't think they look at it this way though. The seem to have the idea that they can just release, then modify the game based on player feedback. That way they can say they listened to the community and made the game better.

 

[Imp]

When your game complexity regresses after 10 years, you're going to have a bad time. The gem/socket bonuses were so uninspired as to be insulting.

Maybe I'm just jaded at this point. Every game for the past few years that came from a previously "amazing" franchise has been dumbed down. Neverwinter Nights started it, from what I remember; Deus Ex 2 kept it going (but redeemed at most recent one); and many games in general just lack the complexity in trying to be more casual. So, I just go in with low expectations. I've blow over 500 hours on D3, so I'm satisfied. Even Morrowind, m yall-time record, kept me around for 300-400 hours. Oblivion was about 190 hours with all "expansions".

 

[Jumpem]

I started playing again a little before Christmas and got to Paragon level 51. I'm getting bored of running the same Act 3 areas over and over.

 

[rstrohkirch]

I started playing again a little before Christmas and got to Paragon level 51. I'm getting bored of running the same Act 3 areas over and over.

It should make it in the next patch, so around June. =]