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Official AMD Ryzen Benchmarks, Reviews, Prices, and Discussion

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unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
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Hardly, because my reasons for that are anything but naive.
rofl...WOWOW!

What world do you live in? Have you not seen the asinine margins intel has put onto the consumers, because they have no competition? The broadwell-e should have been $500, but launched at $1100. Did you somehow miss the massive price drops across intel's lineup, because of ryzen!?
 
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lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
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What world do you live in?
Objective one.

Have you not seen the asinine margins intel has put onto the consumers, because they have no competition? The broadwell-e should have been $500, but launched at $1100.
Of course i did, and concluded that people buying these 6900ks are either hobbyists not caring about costs much, are sponsored by someone or are straight idiots. Nobody forces me to buy Broadwell-E if i deem it unworthy, after all. Also, there is no "should have been" when discussing pricing, the only measure of "should have" is profit, not you. And well, Intel does not complain about profits yet, does it?

Did you somehow miss the massive price drops across intel's lineup, because of ryzen!?
Of course i did because i do not see it anywhere. No, Microcenter always had lower CPU prices, that's why everyone raves about it in the first place.
 
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blublub

Member
Jul 19, 2016
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As far as how much AMD gets to keep, I'd say that Newegg/Amazon/etc. probably get 15% of that selling price.
Fair assumption, usually between 10-20% - depends on brand, type of device.
Amazon, BB, microcenter usually aren't big enough to purchase at the manufacturer directly - nearly everything goes through distributors like Ingram Micro
 
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bjt2

Senior member
Sep 11, 2016
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Which is what I am saying. I'll say it again....The Wraith cooler AMD made for the 1700X and 1800X are designed for 140 watt TDP heat dissipation. I thought they would have enough confidence in them to send reviewers those to test with.
Well, Noctua has some cooler rated for the FX 9xxx (so 220W). I don't know if its' one of these... Anyway for my sandy bridge socket 2011 I have that, similar to the one of AMD but with two fans:

Even at medium speed, to have low noise (both fan have a trimmer), the 130W SB never go over 55C at full load (now 45C with 90W continuous load: I am running multipple complex Matlab simulations now, that occupy all 8 threads)... Thermaltake rates it for 220W: http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=c_00001600
 

Veradun

Senior member
Jul 29, 2016
419
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I may be getting confused with all the fud and leaks but....
I thought there was three stock coolers, a small 65w one, a 95w and 140w ? That the 1700 can with one, but 1700x and 1800x came with higher wraith coolers, if you wanted no fan you ordred the "WOF" model.

Like i said i could be getting confused there.
We all are getting confused in the mysts of FUD pervading the interweb, atm :D

Ok, that is the answer I am looking for. I still suspect these chips' TDP is being hedged a bit. It seems AMD would have enough 140 watt Wraith coolers to send out to reviewers though. Not enough for mass sale just yet, but at least enough to review their chips. I imagine that Noctua heatsink and industrial fan is probably rated around 200 watt TDP.
They actually didn't even include the top notch Noctua cooler with their review kits, but just the best midrange one. It is rated 140W, while the high end ones are rated 220W (i.e.: like a 240mm AiO WC).

I'm fine with that as I will be using a D14 (that is better) and most people will do the same (i.e.: use high end coolers).
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,792
508
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Which is what I am saying. I'll say it again....The Wraith cooler AMD made for the 1700X and 1800X are designed for 140 watt TDP heat dissipation. I thought they would have enough confidence in them to send reviewers those to test with.
That argument isn't making sense. Nobody reviews CPUs with stock heatsinks. And as this is a new platform, including new cooler mounts, you can't possibly guarantee that every reviewer out there will get their hands on a mounting kit for their existing testbed cooler. As such, it makes perfect sense to send out a "better-than-stock" cooler for reivews. This doesn't necessarily mean the chip runs hot, but simply that reviewers can get a somewhat level playing field in terms of cooling and noise. Note that they could have sent out something like the D15, yet didn't.


Also, it's no secret that TDP means different things to different people. Both AMD, Intel and Nvidia all specify their TDPs in different ways. So no, an AMD 65W chip doesn't necessarily draw the same amount of power as an Intel 65W chip in all load scenarios. But that's perfectly fine, as long as the spec is reasonable.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,358
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12 core SKX-X would have no competition, so it's a "good" value if you really need the cores (i.e. time is money for your use case).



Nah. Bring in a lower-clocked 8 core/16 thread chip with 28 PCIe lanes at $499 to wreck AMD's party, then put an 8 core with 44 PCIe lanes at higher clocks at the $799 price point. Then at the $999 price point, Intel can put out a 10 core/20 thread + 44 PCIe lane part, which would be uncontested. Then, of course, for the really "hardcore" people put out the 12 core/24 thread part with 44 PCIe lanes at $1700.

This way Intel can have its cake and eat it, too. It's really actually straightforward and should be good for the consumer as 6/8 core prices should come down nicely.
The problem here is that you dont have a cheap Socket 2066 motherboard that also can OC as the R7 1800X has with B350 at sub $100.
There is no wrecking AMD before CoffeLake comes in to mainstream with 6-cores and cheap Mobos. And even that will not be enough because you will also need a higher priced Z mobo to OC, unless they will allow to OC with cheaper boards (B250 etc).
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,792
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Eh, sounds like natural extension of price competition to me. But then again, i hate anti-trust laws.
Eh, no. It's monopolistic exploitation of a dominant market position. You understand that the next step after this is massive price hikes (due to there not being any competition any longer), right? Let me guess, you're a "free market economy" guy? I'd love to see you read up on some of the thinkers that laid the foundation for modern capitalism (you know, the people near deified by the American right). They were extremely in favor of protecting markets from monopolies, as unregulated markets always tend toward unfair competition.

Of course, you're free to believe that corporations should be free to exploit customers and force competitors out of the market. I just think that's bonkers, and a recipe for a truly f*cked up society.
 

looncraz

Senior member
Sep 12, 2011
716
1,637
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Eh, no. It's monopolistic exploitation of a dominant market position. You understand that the next step after this is massive price hikes (due to there not being any competition any longer), right? Let me guess, you're a "free market economy" guy? I'd love to see you read up on some of the thinkers that laid the foundation for modern capitalism (you know, the people near deified by the American right). They were extremely in favor of protecting markets from monopolies, as unregulated markets always tend toward unfair competition.

Of course, you're free to believe that corporations should be free to exploit customers and force competitors out of the market. I just think that's bonkers, and a recipe for a truly f*cked up society.
I'm a free market economy guy, what he's supporting is a monopolistic corporate economy. A free market economy requires proper protective regulations. Anti-trust laws are a foundational aspect of the free-market economy.

Wikipedia said:
a free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority.
Free from "price-setting monopoly."
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,792
508
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Objective one.
Wow. That truly made me laugh. Good luck with that world view. I'm sure it'll work out well for you.


Of course i did, and concluded that people buying these 6900ks are either hobbyists not caring about costs much, are sponsored by someone or are straight idiots. Nobody forces me to buy Broadwell-E if i deem it unworthy, after all. Also, there is no "should have been" when discussing pricing, the only measure of "should have" is profit, not you. And well, Intel does not complain about profits yet, does it?
Ah. The classic "nobody forces you to ..." argument. You know what that's called? A logical fallacy. Look it up.

And ultimately, profit is not the only measure of "should have". While, of course, no company has any obligation to make anything at all, their very existence hinges on some sort of societal need. If they refuse to fulfill those needs, or take the stance that "we're going to shape those needs for fun and profit!" that rarely ends well for the company. That's why market leaders turn monopolistic - to do just that, but avoid the consequences by being able to say "well, you have no other option". In the end, any form of enterprise hinges on personal or societal need. Prioritizing profit over fulfilling those needs isn't just morally bankrupt, it's just plain dumb.


Of course i did because i do not see it anywhere. No, Microcenter always had lower CPU prices, that's why everyone raves about it in the first place.
Seriously? "I don't mind monopolistic CPU makers, 'cause Microcenter has good rebates!" Please, listen to yourself. Please.

I'm a free market economy guy, what he's supporting is a monopolistic corporate economy. A free market economy requires proper protective regulations. Anti-trust laws are a foundational aspect of the free-market economy.

Free from "price-setting monopoly."
Exactly what I was trying to point out. That term has been co-opted by people lacking any knowledge or insight into both basic socioeconomic principles and market economic principles. "Free" in that term means "equal opportunity," not "do whatever the f*ck you like." Quite the fundamental difference. Of course, mention "equal opportunity" to anyone misusing the term, and they'll say you're a socialist (which they don't know the meaning of either, but never mind).
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,792
508
136
The problem here is that you dont have a cheap Socket 2066 motherboard that also can OC as the R7 1800X has with B350 at sub $100.
There is no wrecking AMD before CoffeLake comes in to mainstream with 6-cores and cheap Mobos. And even that will not be enough because you will also need a higher priced Z mobo to OC, unless they will allow to OC with cheaper boards (B250 etc).
I brought up this point a while ago in a thread in the Motherboards forum. While AMD is clearly kicking Intel's rear when it comes to chip prices, the motherboard cost truly brings this home. Bottom-of-the-barrel 2011-v3 boards are $150. The vast majority are $250+. Another $100+ savings on top of an already incredibly cheap CPU? Yes please.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,251
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Hardly, because my reasons for that are anything but naive.
I agree, I'd call those reasons pure idiotism (not you, the reasons!) - we're not animals - even though many ppl are even proud of themselves when they let instincts overpower them.
 
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csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
834
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PCEVA:http://bbs.pceva.com.cn/thread-137649-1-1.html

1700X@3.4g vs 6800k@3.4g

Intel:
Intel Core i7 6800K :3.4G
ASUS STRIX X99 GAMING
16GB DDR4-2400(dual channel)
RX 480 8G 1266/2000 8GB GDDR5
BIOS:1401
OS:Win10 64bit
Crimson 17.2.1
2017.2.23

AMD:
AMD Ryzen 7 1700X :3.4G
ASUS PRIME X370-PRO
16GB DDR4-2133
RX 480 8G 1266/2000 8GB GDDR5
BIOS:404
OS:Win10 64bit
Crimson 17.2.1
2017.2.10

 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
Seriously? "I don't mind monopolistic CPU makers, 'cause Microcenter has good rebates!" Please, listen to yourself. Please.
Seriously, i do not see a single price drop on Intel CPUs outside of Microcenter. That is raved about for it's CPU prices in the first place. Context, mister Valantar, context. Now, when i will, then that guy i was answering to will have a point.
Ah. The classic "nobody forces you to ..." argument. You know what that's called? A logical fallacy. Look it up.
No, man, it is called freedom. Ain't that funny when the guy from the authoritarian country with totalitarian past knows what it is and people he argues with do not? The rest of your posts are ridden with similar pearls of someone not thinking straight, so if you want to go further, drop me a PM, i am sure up for some arguing.
I'd call those reasons pure idiotism (not you, the reasons!)
Well, if you guys consider North Korea the best state in the world, i heard they want some people. And North Korea is the state that thinks my reasons are pure idiocy, too. Leaving people alone? Pure idiocy! You are wrong though, we are animals, and do behave mostly like animals. Nothing to take pride in, i agree, so submitting to the rule of pig gang is not in my interests.
HELL YEAH, i can finally get back to topic. I presume boost was enabled on both, was it? Also, why the memory disrepancy? Results are sort of inline with what we know, similar ST, vastly superior MT. I guess AMD's pricing should sell that one as hot cakes, just like rest of Ryzen. What software is marked with "wwrwerojeorjwirj;eifdvweaf5.15", though?
 

CentroX

Senior member
Apr 3, 2016
344
149
116
Seriously, i do not see a single price drop on Intel CPUs outside of Microcenter. That is raved about for it's CPU prices in the first place. Context, mister Valantar, context. Now, when i will, then that guy i was answering to will have a point.

No, man, it is called freedom. Ain't that funny when the guy from the authoritarian country with totalitarian past knows what it is and people he argues with do not? The rest of your posts are ridden with similar pearls of someone not thinking straight, so if you want to go further, drop me a PM, i am sure up for some arguing.

Well, if you guys consider North Korea the best state in the world, i heard they want some people. And North Korea is the state that thinks my reasons are pure idiocy, too. Leaving people alone? Pure idiocy! You are wrong though, we are animals, and do behave mostly like animals. Nothing to take pride in, i agree, so submitting to the rule of pig gang is not in my interests.

HELL YEAH, i can finally get back to topic. I presume boost was enabled on both, was it? Also, why the memory disrepancy? Results are sort of inline with what we know, similar ST, vastly superior MT. I guess AMD's pricing should sell that one as hot cakes, just like rest of Ryzen. What software is marked with "wwrwerojeorjwirj;eifdvweaf5.15", though?
It says 3.4 ghz on both

Also prime pro has the first bios release so i assume memory compatibility problem
 
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lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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It says 3.4 ghz on both
The unfortunate part is that 3.4ghz is the base clock of both CPUs, so it requires separate statement whether the turbo/XFR/TBM was on. Cinebench score, though, suggests that it was not.

Anyways, i worry that AMD's attempt to compare 1700 and 7700k will backfire badly, because unlike 1800X/1700X where they are in worst case on par with CPUs AMD compares them to, 1700 may just get roflstomped in badly threaded benchmarks. Though maybe it is their intent to move more X chips instead.
 

CentroX

Senior member
Apr 3, 2016
344
149
116
The unfortunate part is that 3.4ghz is the base clock of both CPUs, so it requires separate statement whether the turbo/XFR/TBM was on. Cinebench score, though, suggests that it was not.

Anyways, i worry that AMD's attempt to compare 1700 and 7700k will backfire badly, because unlike 1800X/1700X where they are in worst case on par with CPUs AMD compares them to, 1700 may just get roflstomped in badly threaded benchmarks. Though maybe it is their intent to move more X chips instead.
1800x will also get stomped in badly threaded games
 
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imported_jjj

Senior member
Feb 14, 2009
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Seriously, i do not see a single price drop on Intel CPUs outside of Microcenter. That is raved about for it's CPU prices in the first place. Context, mister Valantar, context. Now, when i will, then that guy i was answering to will have a point.

No, man, it is called freedom. Ain't that funny when the guy from the authoritarian country with totalitarian past knows what it is and people he argues with do not? The rest of your posts are ridden with similar pearls of someone not thinking straight, so if you want to go further, drop me a PM, i am sure up for some arguing.

Well, if you guys consider North Korea the best state in the world, i heard they want some people. And North Korea is the state that thinks my reasons are pure idiocy, too. Leaving people alone? Pure idiocy! You are wrong though, we are animals, and do behave mostly like animals. Nothing to take pride in, i agree, so submitting to the rule of pig gang is not in my interests.

HELL YEAH, i can finally get back to topic. I presume boost was enabled on both, was it? Also, why the memory disrepancy? Results are sort of inline with what we know, similar ST, vastly superior MT. I guess AMD's pricing should sell that one as hot cakes, just like rest of Ryzen. What software is marked with "wwrwerojeorjwirj;eifdvweaf5.15", though?

You do realize that the only reason Intel makes any money is the x86 monopoly.
The freedom of not having a choice is what totalitarianism IS.
This is why AMD is going after x86 now too. It's a huge market and much easier to compete with just Intel and not everybody else.

And BTW you are too young, at 19, to have a clue what a totalitarian regime is ( unless you count the Trump administration as that) so drop the fake drama.
Edit; 20 later this week so Happy B-day!
 
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Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
1,792
508
136
I agree, I'd call those reasons pure idiotism (not you, the reasons!) - we're not animals - even though many ppl are even proud of themselves when they let instincts overpower them.
While I agree to a certain extent, I take issue with calling this "instincts". Egocentrism, cynicism and lack of empathy are just as learned behaviours as empathy, selflessness and so on.

Seriously, i do not see a single price drop on Intel CPUs outside of Microcenter. That is raved about for it's CPU prices in the first place. Context, mister Valantar, context. Now, when i will, then that guy i was answering to will have a point.
That makes no sense. At all. Arguing that everything is okay because one vendor in a near-monopolistic marketplace has good rebates is like arguing that the gangrene that's rotting your feet is okay because your perfume covers up the stink. What does that have to do with context? The context is that the CPU market has been dominated by a near-monopolistic entity that has on several occasions been accused (and either convicted, or has take a huge loss by settling out of court) of anti-competitive and unfair business practices.

No, man, it is called freedom. Ain't that funny when the guy from the authoritarian country with totalitarian past knows what it is and people he argues with do not? The rest of your posts are ridden with similar pearls of someone not thinking straight, so if you want to go further, drop me a PM, i am sure up for some arguing.
Oh, man. Authoritarian? Norway? Our police aren't even armed, you dolt. We have one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world. We have one of the most equal distributions of wealth in the world. We have free education for all. We support structures in place to ensure the freedom to live our lives how we want, regardless of socioeconomic background. Is Norway perfect? Far from it. But it is one of the freest countries in the world. "Objectively", to use your (glaringly misinformed) phrasing. What you're describing is oligarchy and/or plutocracy. That has nothing to with freedom.

To put it in plain text: Freedom isn't freedom any more when it starts placing significant restrictions on the freedoms of others. By that point, it has already become oligarchy.

I'd also like to hear about that totalitarian past you're talking about. When was that? When we were occupied by Nazi Germany? When we were ruled by Sweden/Denmark for ~400 years? 'Cause last I checked we've been a functioning democracy since 1814, and self-governed since 1905. Of course, if you're talking about the period in from WWII till the early 80's when we had mostly Labour Party Prime Ministers? If so, you need to look up what "totalitarian"


Now, to whomever else is reading: sorry for this long off-topic discussion. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
 

Greyguy1948

Member
Nov 29, 2008
146
14
91
PCEVA:http://bbs.pceva.com.cn/thread-137649-1-1.html

1700X@3.4g vs 6800k@3.4g

Intel:
Intel Core i7 6800K :3.4G
ASUS STRIX X99 GAMING
16GB DDR4-2400(dual channel)
RX 480 8G 1266/2000 8GB GDDR5
BIOS:1401
OS:Win10 64bit
Crimson 17.2.1
2017.2.23

AMD:
AMD Ryzen 7 1700X :3.4G
ASUS PRIME X370-PRO
16GB DDR4-2133
RX 480 8G 1266/2000 8GB GDDR5
BIOS:404
OS:Win10 64bit
Crimson 17.2.1
2017.2.10

Interesting result!
It would be good to see the Radeon effect.
How would the result be with Geforce GTX 1070 or GTX 1080?
 

CentroX

Senior member
Apr 3, 2016
344
149
116
I would be worried if i bought the prime pro. It has no bios release yet while hero has 4 releases already
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
1800x will also get stomped in badly threaded games
1800x will be compared with 6900k in reviews, so, no, it will not get stomped, they will probably be nearly tied nearly everywhere.

The point is that this review, and i suspect quite a few others, will follow AMD's guideline of 1700 vs 7700k/1700X vs 6800k and 1800x vs 6900k. On a simple assumption that Ryzen is AMD's Broadwell (and that looks true), that will go exactly as you expect it to go: 1700 will be relegated as "niche" CPU, 1700X will be applauded as the best buy, and 1800X will be hailed as cheaper 6900k.

You do realize that the only reason Intel makes any money is the x86 monopoly.
Are you one of those ARM fans?

The freedom of not having a choice is what totalitarianism IS.
Nice strawman, but freedom of choice between doing X and not doing X is well, hardly totalitarian.

That makes no sense. At all.
That's because you don't read. Rest is way OT when we have something to discuss for once, so see ya in PM.
 

CentroX

Senior member
Apr 3, 2016
344
149
116
it is impressive that AMD got to broadwell-E.

I wonder how much ipc they can squeeze out of zen+ because intel will now start trying again.
 

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,013
597
136
This is why AMD is going after x86 now too.
What do you mean? AMD has always gone after x86 since IBM made them their second supplier of x86 CPU's. :rolleyes:

And BTW you are too young, at 19, to have a clue what a totalitarian regime is ( unless you count the Trump administration as that)
Clearly he isn't the only one clueless about what a totalitarian regime is.
 

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