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  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Official AMD Ryzen Benchmarks, Reviews, Prices, and Discussion

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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,898
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It's about how people make the purchasing decision and AMD crippled the ST perf for their quads for no reason.
Have you seen anyone at all excited about the quads? I haven't and that's precisely because the ST clocks are too low and bellow expectations.
They had the opportunity to get close in ST to Intel in the sub 200$ segment and they just missed it.
They win in MT, they have more L3$, longer life for the socket and unclocked but they create a huge headwind with the ST clocks.
It's the difference between not needing to even think about what to purchase (and chose AMD by default) and pondering about it for days.
And remember it's self inflicted, AMD made a major miscalculation when "calibrating" these SKUs and it will be very costly from a financial point of view.

Intel has
7500 3.4/3.8GHz
7400 3.0GHz/3.5GHz

AMD has
1500X 3.5/3.7GHz with 200MHz XFR at 189$
1400 3.2/3.4GHz with 50MHz at 169$

What if AMD had
3.6/4GHz plus 100MHz XFR (or even without as long as they list 4GHz ) at 199$
3.4/3.8 at 179$
3.2/3.4 at 149$

Can you really say that my proposed SKUs would not lead to much better sales?
It not only makes the line a lot more appealing but they would also reach lower price points so quite a bit more customers now not in the second half.
The top 2 SKUs with slightly higher ASPs than their offering, would likely lead to a somewhat similar overall ASP for the R5 quads but much higher volumes.
Just by listing lower turbo clocks than Intel they lose a lot of customers as a large chunk of people will chose on clocks, just like they chose GPUs based on amount of VRAM.
What AMD did is dumb and they need to adjust the quads right now before launch.
I dont think amd have that many quad to sell and therefore its not priced attractively. They want to sell 6c or 8c because its better margins.
In my opinion the entire stack is sold 10% to high and they will have to lower prices. But hey if server eats all the dies they probably dont care that much anyway but ajusting prices gradually is damn stupid as i have explained months back.
And yeaa nothing like product shortages is good for your brand.
They dont quite get the branding dicipline yet.
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,898
1,524
136
Yes my point was more so is the new pentium for $64.
Absolutely. And fast enough for +90% of the current gamestack.
Its a fine offer no doubt. But its a product we have seen before. I recall the excellent core 2 5200 and 7200 cpu. They could do the same.
But a product like 1700 is something radically new.
 

imported_jjj

Senior member
Feb 14, 2009
660
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I dont think amd have that many quad to sell and therefore its not priced attractively. They want to sell 6c or 8c because its better margins.
In my opinion the entire stack is sold 10% to high and they will have to lower prices. But hey if server eats all the dies they probably dont care that much anyway but ajusting prices gradually is damn stupid as i have explained months back.
Server is ...can't quite remember... some 23 million units (CPUs so sockets not boxes) per year.
AMD can't win a lot of share out of the sudden.They can ship 20x more units in consumer.
Server is also starting in Q2 but with minimal volume and ramping slowly, even more so as the software is not quite sorted out.
It would be very good if they ship over a million units in server this year considering all of that. Sure the average would be more than 8 cores so in terms of dies it's 2-3times the units.
For server they need low leakage not clocks so It's not really a matter of Ryzen or server.
This year Summit Ridge needs to shine as it has the most potential by far. Next year Raven Ridge and server catch up as both of those won't ship a lot this year- i am assuming that RR based notebooks hit retail in Sept or so and not July but could be wrong.
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,397
277
136
shouldn't be hard to believe if you got a YouTube, twitch, or netflix stream running while gaming, the 8 core CPU is going to start pulling ahead of the 4 core CPU

reviewers aren't going to ever benchmark that kind of scenario though
No crap. My Xeon Haswell struggled with this, and this is why I'm building a 1700. I can't STAND reviews that limit scenarios such as these. I'm puzzled, as my friends 8 core hair dryer of a AMD CPU actually does an awesome job at multitasking already. I mean running VM's, Chrome, Outlook, Skype for Business, and another instance of my game running. I play MMO's and it's pretty heavy on the CPU.
 

french toast

Senior member
Feb 22, 2017
978
803
106
No need to be rude just because you are not equipped to come up with a dollar estimate.
Fair enough, but we honestly dont have a clue, we have no reference point on which to draw comparisons, we dont know what brand value amd has anymore in cpus.
What we can go on is overall value of whats offered, essentially we have a budget 7700k in 1500x, thats EASILY worth 189$, it wipes the floor with anything around it, its also overclockable, should sell like hot cakes imo.
 
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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
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Server is ...can't quite remember... some 23 million units (CPUs so sockets not boxes) per year.
AMD can't win a lot of share out of the sudden.They can ship 20x more units in consumer.
Server is also starting in Q2 but with minimal volume and ramping slowly, even more so as the software is not quite sorted out.
It would be very good if they ship over a million units in server this year considering all of that. Sure the average would be more than 8 cores so in terms of dies it's 2-3times the units.
For server they need low leakage not clocks so It's not really a matter of Ryzen or server.
This year Summit Ridge needs to shine as it has the most potential by far. Next year Raven Ridge and server catch up as both of those won't ship a lot this year- i am assuming that RR based notebooks hit retail in Sept or so and not July but could be wrong.
Actually... the top tier might appear on July/August and the mainstream at Q4 2017....

And now the scenario is different... now AMD would catch and even might defeat Intel on their game. It would be epic to watch....

PS: Also, if HP has the rights of the next movie of Star Wars, they can launch another promotion of their themed laptop and now they could do something similar like this:
"Now the forces are equal and now you choose:
- The Force: Intel CPU and nVIDIA GPU
- The Dark Side: AMD CPU/GPU"

That in order to sell both CPU's and GPU's which would be on similar conditions.
 

ManyThreads

Member
Mar 6, 2017
99
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@ManyThreads ,CH6 is seriously overbuilt. If the prime has everything you want feature wise, I say go for it. I don't know what VRMs the prime uses but even the cheaper ASUS boards use quality VRMs so you should be fine. Just stay away from spiking the voltage to crazy levels and you should be good to go.
Thank you! That is encouraging.

Myself and a few others here have that motherboard. It has excellent VRMs, 6+2 design (no doubling) with the same MOSFETs as the CH6 and it's very stable currently if you don't play with it much. The BIOS hasn't been updated yet since release and has a lot of issues with memory above 2133/2400 though some have managed 2933 and 3200 depending on the type of RAM they're using. New BIOS updates coming apparently has much better RAM support though ideally you want to go for single rank and preferably Samsung B chips.

I went for it because I didn't want to invest in one of the high end boards but it has the ALC1220 audio, has excellent VRMs, the X370 chipset for expansion options later, and still has good overclocking capabilities for a moderate OC. I've tested my 1700 at 3.8 with no issues though it can go higher but I'm really waiting for a new BIOS before really playing with it.

The only issue (though not quite limited to this exact board) is a problem we've found with OC and Battlefield 1. Edit: Looks like the issue is with AI Suite, OC and BF1.
That is excellent info, and what I was hoping to hear - thanks. Do you know if it has the same memory controllers and M2 SSD support/capabilities as the CH6? I wouldn't want to be missing out on those areas, but I currently use an Asus "Pro" board for my i7 3770K and it's been phenomenal.

So this board has not been getting the same BIOS update love as the CH6? The CH6 is already on it's 3rd or 4th BIOS, and Asus employees seem very active on the related threads on Overclockers.net.

I need 32GB of RAM, so that is the main thing holding me back now. I want to use 2X16 @ 3200 (I am told it's the fastest, and it keeps expansion options open) but I am not sure that is going to be possible because I believe all 32GB sticks are dual rank. I am getting tired of waiting for the Fury X RAM though - maybe the best thing to do would be 4X 8 GB single Rank, but an Asus employee said that is slower than 2X16 for Ryzen (not sure if that's true?)

An asus employee said this recently, but I can't tell what board(s) he was referring to:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1623547/amd-ryzen-motherboard-thread/1340#post_25897380


Thanks again for everyone's help - I mostly just lurk but this thread has been an incredible resource. This is the build I am trying to finalize...mostly just need to figure out RAM now I guess:

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/DQRRyf
 
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Agent-47

Senior member
Jan 17, 2017
290
249
76
Here is you numbers. Ryzen kills core $vs$
4c4t is damn bad. 8c rocks.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battlefield-1-2016-Spiel-54981/Specials/Battlefield-1-They-Shall-not-Pass-Benchmarks-1223170/

And that is with 2800 ram for the 3.9zen in 4x configuration. That gives slow sub timings. You can easily go 2933 if you buy the right ram and use 2 sticks.
If you need help to select go to the builders thread.
Obviously is important to get fast ram with zen but thats also due to latency issues.
Get some trident that works at 3200 at solid cl.
don't feed the troll!
 

kush120

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
17
40
51
KUSH120 said:
The Ryzen is wayy better in games. I don't understand all this. When reviewers do their reviews, they have ONLY the game running and compare FPS. That is not realworld. When I use my PC, I have youtube, podcast, music, browsers, vent, skype, etc open. This is where Ryzen pulls ahead. The ability to use multiple programs and not have a reduced FPS while gaming.
I believe you but may i see numbers :)?
What numbers do you wanna see? The problem is same for reviewers, its very hard to show real world gaming in this way. All I can really do is share my experience with both platforms. But I can provide whatever info I can.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,050
1,560
136
The likely reason there will be non-SMT chips I think is for TDP reasons.
The most poorly binned chips may be too high TDP with SMT enabled, so it's not that it's defective but it will be disabled and them sold as cheaper CPUs.
Since they're the bottom tier of chips, why not just lower the clock speed until they can hit TDP limits?

It seems like if they want to have chips with disabled SMT it will either take a long while to have enough that fit the bin, or they'd need to artificially disable it on chips that could otherwise be sold as a working low-end R5. The first option seems possible, but will just take a long time. The second seems less likely unless its a chip with functioning SMT with terrible clocks so they just create a pure left-over bin for anything that's just functional enough not to be tossed out.

Such chips probably still stack up well against any i3 just by virtue of having 4 physical cores instead of only 2, but R5 and R7 compete well enough in terms of value for cost that AMD doesn't need to artificially put chips into lower bins for economic reasons. I don't know what the yields are like at Global Foundries, but I suspect that they're reasonably good based on the roll-out. Could be a while before we see R3 and it could be the case that they're mostly sold as OEM parts.
 

Malogeek

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2017
1,390
778
106
yaktribe.org
So this board has not been getting the same BIOS update love as the CH6? The CH6 is already on it's 3rd or 4th BIOS, and Asus employees seem very active on the related threads on Overclockers.net.
All the attention is on the CH6 at the moment, there's no BIOS updates since release for the X370-Pro.
 

ManyThreads

Member
Mar 6, 2017
99
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All the attention is on the CH6 at the moment, there's no BIOS updates since release for the X370-Pro.
I see - thanks.

What do you think of the Gigabyte boards? I realize this data point is very small but I read a user review that said on the Asus PRO he could only get the 1700 to 3.8 GHz, but changed to the Gigabyte Aorus 5 and immediately got 3.95 Ghz. Does that make sense? I am not sure why that would be. Gigabyte doesn't seem to have the same reputation as the Asus boards, but I've got to believe most of them are OK too.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,589
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There is no difference in performance between Ryzen 7 CPUs OC'ed, with faster memory, or with SMT off, in this particular case.

Which indicates, that CPU in underloaded with work.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,589
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Yeah, two threads are playing cacheline ping pong across the DF, while the others watch them, forgetting about rendering the game.
Exactly. Interesting to see when games will learn how to handle the Ryzen CPU and how huge boost we will see.

Guys, one more thing:
Look at the numbers and draw the similarities between them ;).


No difference in performance, no difference in power consumption.

The CPUs are heavily underutilized.

Even if they are not fully utilized, they still beat the 7700K in performance/watt.
 

Malogeek

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2017
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yaktribe.org
What do you think of the Gigabyte boards? I realize this data point is very small but I read a user review that said on the Asus PRO he could only get the 1700 to 3.8 GHz, but changed to the Gigabyte Aorus 5 and immediately got 3.95 Ghz. Does that make sense? I am not sure why that would be. Gigabyte doesn't seem to have the same reputation as the Asus boards, but I've got to believe most of them are OK too.
I couldn't really say but it's possible. The Gaming 5 is obviously a more high end motherboard and as such is more expensive but as someone who was originally planning only a B350 price range, the ASUS Prime X370-Pro was an excellent compromise between the high end X370's and the B350 range. I haven't tried to push my 1700 past 3.8Ghz because frankly it's not designed to do so, especially with my cooling setup. It was needing 1.3v to hit that for me and was getting into an uncomfortable temperature at full load. The chips are all binned for a reason.
 
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lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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No difference in performance, no difference in power consumption.
No difference in performance?


And the best result for Ryzen...


But yeah, their test serves as nice reminder that in real life you do not need to care about CPU as long as you do not care about frametimes.
 
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lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
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What numbers do you wanna see? The problem is same for reviewers, its very hard to show real world gaming in this way. All I can really do is share my experience with both platforms. But I can provide whatever info I can.
Frametimes, of course.

It is not particularly hard for reviewers to created a semi-scripted scenario that would run some fixed software during gameplay test either. Only 1 has bothered from what i know though, and not for Ryzen yet.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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[QUOTE="lolfail9001,]

Only posting outliers with respect to Zen's performance in games.

Be careful about lolfail9001 - he's a notorious troll from HardOCP.
I would just ignore his posts.
Attack the message, not the messenger.
 
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