official 9-11 thread

[event8horizon]

was 9-11 the work of AQ or someone else!!!! if u think AQ, then define AQ and its orgins and members not leaving out the lead hijacker (atta), ali mohammed, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (MI6), and the big fish Lieutenant General Mahmoud Ahmad of the ISI since he sent atta 100,000 through saeed sheik. that just bypassed the official AQ if u didnt notice. and remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he was with saeed sheik (mi6) when one of them murdered daniel pearl. so who were they taking orders from....OBL or the General or someone else!! remember daniel pearl was investigating the connection between the ISI and AQ.

from the other perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossiga
Francesco Cossiga - italian ex prez that dealt with intel agencies said-
From circles around Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of Italian intelligence, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is testified from the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al Qaeda would have been the author of the attack of the 11 September to the Twin Towers in New York, while all of the democratic circles of America and of Europe, with in the forefront those of the Italian centre-left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the Zionist world to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and to persuade the Western powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan. For this, no word of solidarity arrived to Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the author of the brilliant falsification, neither from the Quirinale, nor from Palazzo Chigi, nor from representatives of the centre-left!

or the fox news report that got deleted about the israeli spy ring-

http://video.google.com/videop...TSJ4jkrQKlh7CKCg&hl=en

or this memorandum detailing the israeli's 9-11----

http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

****notice the areas where the "hijackers" lived in relation to the "israeli art students". its toward the back the pdf file.


and now for 9-11

1. the planes- hijacked or remote controlled??

2. wtc towers- plane crash - fire - collapse or plane crash - thermite/thermate - collapse??

3. pentagon- plane crash or cruise missile

4. flight 93- crashed in field or shot down??

5. anthrax (part of 9-11 or not) who did it. it looks like it was from one of our own labs.

and the 9-11 commission report.......a coverup?????

 

[event8horizon]

lets keep it clean and have some fun!!!!! i learn news details everytime someone brings up 9-11 and i hope u do too.

 

[HeXploiT]

I only hope the MODs will pay attention to WHO is doing the flaming.

 

[HeXploiT]

I would like to start this discussion on a very narrow subject surrounding this photograph.

What do you think about this picture? Make sure you zoom in and look closely at the steel beams. Are these beams not cut? Would fire or sheer force cause these beams to break in such a fashion?
Look at how straight they are cut.
Looking for logical explanations and reasoning not insults.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Let's start with this: Prove where and when that photograph was taken. Once you have proven this then ask yourself this: If that is a beam on the first floor of the WTC wouldn't the tens of thousands of people that walked past that beam and the hundreds of others that would have to be cut have noticed the hundreds of explosive charges and MILES of det cord running all over the place?


All you have done is posted a photograph from an unknown source and implied that it means that the WTC buildings were destroyed by a controlled demolition. Where is YOUR proof? Use your brain and think before posting.

 

[RichardE]

It is very easy for straight cuts to be made from force snapping objects. You can test this yourself by putting a piece of wood in a vice grip and applying a very strong force to the side (hammer/sledgehammer blow for example). The cut will be extremely straight (or break) as the forces applied by the vice grip do not allow a certain portion of the wood to move at all (as long as the vice grip force>hammer force).

So yeah, its very easy for this to happen.

 

[Mokmo418]

I'll make this even simpler: The way floors are added implies that there will NOT be any beam that runs the full height of these buildings. Thus welds that broke at these points
The 45-60° cut is shearing due to excessive loads or a wall in a weird picture angle.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Never seen steel sheared before? Or even a bolt or screw sheared. It makes a clean cut. Thats all you're seeing in this photo.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
lets keep it clean and have some fun!!!!!

Gaa-a-a-ak! The whole idea of "having fun" with this subject turns my stomach.

 

[OokiiNeko]

Japanese government wants to stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

You can find it on live leak. Shouldn`t be a problem for all you Internet structural engineers.

 

[ranmaniac]

What about the lack of response from our air defenses?

When the golfer Payne Stewarts's lear jet went off course, it was intercepted by F-16s within 20 minutes and escorted.

Yet 4 airliners are "hijacked" and none of them are intercepted, unless of course you think that Flight 93 might have been shot down, which is a possibility.

Not to mention that the Pentagon has air defense missile batteries, so whatever hit the Pentagon could have been shotdown if it were in fact an aircraft.

Source for Payne Stewart lear jet story:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: event8horizon
lets keep it clean and have some fun!!!!!

Gaa-a-a-ak! The whole idea of "having fun" with this subject turns my stomach.

thanks for the unlock. the "having fun" is just discussing differing opinions. thats all.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: event8horizon
lets keep it clean and have some fun!!!!!

Gaa-a-a-ak! The whole idea of "having fun" with this subject turns my stomach.

I feel the same way. All these theories have been discussed in here by both side.
It always ends in a flame war.

Why would it be any different now?

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: Perry404
I would like to start this discussion on a very narrow subject surrounding this photograph.

What do you think about this picture? Make sure you zoom in and look closely at the steel beams. Are these beams not cut? Would fire or sheer force cause these beams to break in such a fashion?
Look at how straight they are cut.
Looking for logical explanations and reasoning not insults.

they used oxyacetylene torches after 9-11 to cut the steel. check out these cuts by oxyacetylene. notice how they look compared to the pic perry shows. is where u come into the thermate theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfgSr2eBXls

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
What about the lack of response from our air defenses?

When the golfer Payne Stewarts's lear jet went off course, it was intercepted by F-16s within 20 minutes and escorted.

Yet 4 airliners are "hijacked" and none of them are intercepted, unless of course you think that Flight 93 might have been shot down, which is a possibility.

Not to mention that the Pentagon has air defense missile batteries, so whatever hit the Pentagon could have been shotdown if it were in fact an aircraft.

Source for Payne Stewart lear jet story:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oaklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
What about the lack of response from our air defenses?

When the golfer Payne Stewarts's lear jet went off course, it was intercepted by F-16s within 20 minutes and escorted.

Yet 4 airliners are "hijacked" and none of them are intercepted, unless of course you think that Flight 93 might have been shot down, which is a possibility.

Not to mention that the Pentagon has air defense missile batteries, so whatever hit the Pentagon could have been shotdown if it were in fact an aircraft.

Source for Payne Stewart lear jet story:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oaklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

You haven't debunked why a lear jet going off course is intercepted in 20 minutes yet 4 commercial airliners were not even interecepted within an hour. And that link to the lear jet story is sourced from Dow Jones, but since it's on the internet, it wouldn't matter to you.

 

[HeXploiT]

To keep things simple I'm going to refrain from quoting people since many of the opposing views seem to be making the same points. First off it's obviously very early on because the fireman are still using the 3m masks which do absolutely nothing to protect from the poisonous chemicals in the air.
That's all the FDNY had to start off with. After the first couple days the news media raised hell about this and shipments of real masks were brought in. Secondly if it were a oxyacetylene cut they would have cleared the debris in order to make that cut. Just look at the picture. Thirdly it is obviously a cut and not a break because there is melted steel all the way around the end of the beam.
So we must accept the fact that this is a cut. The point in question is what is the most likely explanation for this cut?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
What about the lack of response from our air defenses?

When the golfer Payne Stewarts's lear jet went off course, it was intercepted by F-16s within 20 minutes and escorted.

Yet 4 airliners are "hijacked" and none of them are intercepted, unless of course you think that Flight 93 might have been shot down, which is a possibility.

Not to mention that the Pentagon has air defense missile batteries, so whatever hit the Pentagon could have been shotdown if it were in fact an aircraft.

Source for Payne Stewart lear jet story:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

You haven't debunked why a lear jet going off course is intercepted in 20 minutes yet 4 commercial airliners were not even interecepted within an hour. And that link to the lear jet story is sourced from Dow Jones, but since it's on the internet, it wouldn't matter to you.

Where are you getting the idea that it was intercepted in 20 minutes? Also, can you find anything to support the idea that the first aircraft to intercept was a combat load alert aircraft (what would have been needed during 9/11)?

 

[ranmaniac]

read the article (sourced from Dow Jones Information Library).

Loss of Oxygen Cited as Possible Cause of Jet's Wayward Flight, Crash
Lynn Lunsford

10/26/1999
KRTBN Knight-Ridder Tribune Business News: The Dallas Morning News - Texas


..."I am very grateful for the work the FAA did and for the two Air Force pilots and the others in the Air Force that monitored this plane and made every effort to try to make contact with it.

"They did everything that could humanly be done, and they were looking out for the safety of everyone involved."

There was some speculation Monday that the military jets were prepared to shoot down the Lear if it threatened to crash in a heavily populated area. But officials at the Pentagon strongly denied that possibility.

Shooting down the plane "was never an option," Air Force spokesman Capt. Joe Della Vedova said. "I don't know where that came from."

Instead, according to an Air Force timeline, a series of military planes provided an emergency escort to the stricken Lear, beginning with a pair of F-16 Falcons from the Air National Guard at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla., about 20 minutes after ground controllers lost contact.

 

[nageov3t]

when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
read the article (sourced from Dow Jones Information Library).

I DID read the article. The problem here is that you are quoting a website which is (supposedly) reprinting a newspaper article. I quoted a source which is far more reliable which directly contradicts your claims.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

The Manhatten Project (the development of the atomic bomb) was worked on by thousands of people and no one in the public knew about it until after we dropped it on Japan.

 

[Jiggz]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
was 9-11 the work of AQ or someone else!!!! if u think AQ, then define AQ and its orgins and members not leaving out the lead hijacker (atta), ali mohammed, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (MI6), and the big fish Lieutenant General Mahmoud Ahmad of the ISI since he sent atta 100,000 through saeed sheik. that just bypassed the official AQ if u didnt notice. and remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he was with saeed sheik (mi6) when one of them murdered daniel pearl. so who were they taking orders from....OBL or the General or someone else!! remember daniel pearl was investigating the connection between the ISI and AQ.

from the other perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossiga
Francesco Cossiga - italian ex prez that dealt with intel agencies said-
From circles around Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of Italian intelligence, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is testified from the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al Qaeda would have been the author of the attack of the 11 September to the Twin Towers in New York, while all of the democratic circles of America and of Europe, with in the forefront those of the Italian centre-left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the Zionist world to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and to persuade the Western powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan. For this, no word of solidarity arrived to Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the author of the brilliant falsification, neither from the Quirinale, nor from Palazzo Chigi, nor from representatives of the centre-left!

or the fox news report that got deleted about the israeli spy ring-

http://video.google.com/videop...TSJ4jkrQKlh7CKCg&hl=en

or this memorandum detailing the israeli's 9-11----

http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

****notice the areas where the "hijackers" lived in relation to the "israeli art students". its toward the back the pdf file.


and now for 9-11

1. the planes- hijacked or remote controlled??

2. wtc towers- plane crash - fire - collapse or plane crash - thermite/thermate - collapse??

3. pentagon- plane crash or cruise missile

4. flight 93- crashed in field or shot down??

5. anthrax (part of 9-11 or not) who did it. it looks like it was from one of our own labs.

and the 9-11 commission report.......a coverup?????

It's almost beyond comprehension (depending whose side you're on) to even consider a conspiracy theory behind the 9-11 incident! Unless of course you are an avid viewer of the The View and a follower of Roseanne!

You can take all the pictures you want to support your "Con Theory", photoshop them and print them online, but for those of us who were there and who actually saw the carnage, it's nothing short of war! I also don't doubt you actually revel in spreading this unsupported con-theory just like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revels in spreading unsupported claim that the Holocaust and 9-11 never actually happened. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY AN UN-AMERICAN!

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

uuuum...they haven't covered it up. Lol. Why do you think it's talked about by peoples and nations around the globe? If it were covered up we would all be convinced. Bridges collapse, buildings burn down and jets crash. Very few of the terrible tragedies that happen in our nation result in any "conspiracy theory" much less such a high level of dispute.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: Jiggz

Originally posted by: event8horizon
was 9-11 the work of AQ or someone else!!!! if u think AQ, then define AQ and its orgins and members not leaving out the lead hijacker (atta), ali mohammed, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (MI6), and the big fish Lieutenant General Mahmoud Ahmad of the ISI since he sent atta 100,000 through saeed sheik. that just bypassed the official AQ if u didnt notice. and remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he was with saeed sheik (mi6) when one of them murdered daniel pearl. so who were they taking orders from....OBL or the General or someone else!! remember daniel pearl was investigating the connection between the ISI and AQ.

from the other perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossiga
Francesco Cossiga - italian ex prez that dealt with intel agencies said-
From circles around Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of Italian intelligence, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is testified from the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al Qaeda would have been the author of the attack of the 11 September to the Twin Towers in New York, while all of the democratic circles of America and of Europe, with in the forefront those of the Italian centre-left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the Zionist world to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and to persuade the Western powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan. For this, no word of solidarity arrived to Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the author of the brilliant falsification, neither from the Quirinale, nor from Palazzo Chigi, nor from representatives of the centre-left!

or the fox news report that got deleted about the israeli spy ring-

http://video.google.com/videop...TSJ4jkrQKlh7CKCg&hl=en

or this memorandum detailing the israeli's 9-11----

http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

****notice the areas where the "hijackers" lived in relation to the "israeli art students". its toward the back the pdf file.


and now for 9-11

1. the planes- hijacked or remote controlled??

2. wtc towers- plane crash - fire - collapse or plane crash - thermite/thermate - collapse??

3. pentagon- plane crash or cruise missile

4. flight 93- crashed in field or shot down??

5. anthrax (part of 9-11 or not) who did it. it looks like it was from one of our own labs.

and the 9-11 commission report.......a coverup?????

It's almost beyond comprehension (depending whose side you're on) to even consider a conspiracy theory behind the 9-11 incident!

You are absolutely right! if you like life to be simple then walk away.
That's my advice. Anyone who comes to believe that 9/11 is an inside job, right or not, is going to be shaken to their very core.