Official 3/4 Democratic Primary Results Thread

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Yes, I agree, Hillary as the nominee would send a ton of voters to McCain. I think that's obvious, and there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious.

Nope, nothing wrong with stating the obvious, unless it's completely against the data. Obama's supporters are more liberal than Hillary's, and if he gets the nomination, more of Clinton's supporters go to McCain than would Obama's supporters if Hillary wins the nom.

The opposite of what you claim is obvious is true according to: http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6333

Hillary supporters support her in large part because they believe experience matters. 25% would go with McCain over Obama. Meanwhile 86% of Obama supporters would support Clinton in the general. If you have data other than your own guessitmate as to what is obvious I'd be interested in seeing it.

http://www.people-press.org/re...splay.php3?PageID=1254

One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton.

Yet in polls pitting McCain vs Obama, Obama wins while the opposite happens with McCain vs. Hillary.

I'll say it for the record. If Hillary wins, she'll beat McCain just like Kerry beat Bush. It won't happen. Obama has the best chance between of the two Dems. If the Dems front Hillary, I'll vote McCain along with a ton of other people. Wait and see.

I disagree and with the sources above as evidence. If Obama gets the nom, seniors (who have a proven track record of actually voting) will go McCain in larger numbers. Remove the impetus for women to get heavily involved and the Dems will also lose that advantage. Hillary as the nom motivates women to come out and vote for her as Obama motivates the black vote. But women make up a far larger constituency.

Recent compiled polling results (http://www.realclearpolitics.c...esident/national.html) show Obama has a 4 pt advantage over McCain while Hillary ties. That's not a margin worth basing a vote on. 2 months ago Hillary was far ahead in the same poll. What will happen now that she's won TX/OH? What happens if she wins PN? What happens to those numbers 2 months from now? It's a fickle metric based on who's popular at the moment.

61% of americans in a very recent poll want troops home within a year. The country is incredibly dissatisfied after 8 years of reps in the WH and are looking for a change to the dems. You voted for Bush twice and now support obama. Theres about 1000 people like you in the whole country. You won't be influencing the swing of this election. The overwhelming majority of dems will vote dem, and all the of huge turnouts at primaries, for both candidates, indicates a massive movement come november.

Saying Hillary is unelectable is partisan claptrap.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

More abysmal nonsense.

Pro-choice? Hillary not McCain
No torture? Hillary, not McCain
Pull out of Iraq? Hillary, not McCain
Universal Healthcare? Hillary, not McCain
Repeal Tax cuts? Hillary, not McCain

Obama is not an empty suit. He's an extremely bright and charismatic guy and would be a fine nominee.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Yes, I agree, Hillary as the nominee would send a ton of voters to McCain. I think that's obvious, and there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious.

Nope, nothing wrong with stating the obvious, unless it's completely against the data. Obama's supporters are more liberal than Hillary's, and if he gets the nomination, more of Clinton's supporters go to McCain than would Obama's supporters if Hillary wins the nom.

The opposite of what you claim is obvious is true according to: http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6333

Hillary supporters support her in large part because they believe experience matters. 25% would go with McCain over Obama. Meanwhile 86% of Obama supporters would support Clinton in the general. If you have data other than your own guessitmate as to what is obvious I'd be interested in seeing it.

http://www.people-press.org/re...splay.php3?PageID=1254

One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton.

Yet in polls pitting McCain vs Obama, Obama wins while the opposite happens with McCain vs. Hillary.

I'll say it for the record. If Hillary wins, she'll beat McCain just like Kerry beat Bush. It won't happen. Obama has the best chance between of the two Dems. If the Dems front Hillary, I'll vote McCain along with a ton of other people. Wait and see.

I disagree and with the sources above as evidence. If Obama gets the nom, seniors (who have a proven track record of actually voting) will go McCain in larger numbers. Remove the impetus for women to get heavily involved and the Dems will also lose that advantage. Hillary as the nom motivates women to come out and vote for her as Obama motivates the black vote. But women make up a far larger constituency.

Recent compiled polling results (http://www.realclearpolitics.c...esident/national.html) show Obama has a 4 pt advantage over McCain while Hillary ties. That's not a margin worth basing a vote on. 2 months ago Hillary was far ahead in the same poll. What will happen now that she's won TX/OH? What happens if she wins PN? What happens to those numbers 2 months from now? It's a fickle metric based on who's popular at the moment.

61% of americans in a very recent poll want troops home within a year. The country is incredibly dissatisfied after 8 years of reps in the WH and are looking for a change to the dems. You voted for Bush twice and now support obama. Theres about 1000 people like you in the whole country. You won't be influencing the swing of this election. The overwhelming majority of dems will vote dem, and all the of huge turnouts at primaries, for both candidates, indicates a massive movement come november.

Saying Hillary is unelectable is partisan claptrap.

Yeah, all these talk about polls showing Obama is more electable against McCain is nonsense. If polls were the truth, Obama would have won California and Texas. You cannot base stuff on polls or some people saying something in random forum. You gotta look at the fact and the actual result. Hillary won the big states, that's a fact, and that's the key in the winer gets all process of the presidential election.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Yes, I agree, Hillary as the nominee would send a ton of voters to McCain. I think that's obvious, and there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious.

Nope, nothing wrong with stating the obvious, unless it's completely against the data. Obama's supporters are more liberal than Hillary's, and if he gets the nomination, more of Clinton's supporters go to McCain than would Obama's supporters if Hillary wins the nom.

The opposite of what you claim is obvious is true according to: http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6333

Hillary supporters support her in large part because they believe experience matters. 25% would go with McCain over Obama. Meanwhile 86% of Obama supporters would support Clinton in the general. If you have data other than your own guessitmate as to what is obvious I'd be interested in seeing it.

http://www.people-press.org/re...splay.php3?PageID=1254

One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton.

Yet in polls pitting McCain vs Obama, Obama wins while the opposite happens with McCain vs. Hillary.

I'll say it for the record. If Hillary wins, she'll beat McCain just like Kerry beat Bush. It won't happen. Obama has the best chance between of the two Dems. If the Dems front Hillary, I'll vote McCain along with a ton of other people. Wait and see.

I disagree and with the sources above as evidence. If Obama gets the nom, seniors (who have a proven track record of actually voting) will go McCain in larger numbers. Remove the impetus for women to get heavily involved and the Dems will also lose that advantage. Hillary as the nom motivates women to come out and vote for her as Obama motivates the black vote. But women make up a far larger constituency.

Recent compiled polling results (http://www.realclearpolitics.c...esident/national.html) show Obama has a 4 pt advantage over McCain while Hillary ties. That's not a margin worth basing a vote on. 2 months ago Hillary was far ahead in the same poll. What will happen now that she's won TX/OH? What happens if she wins PN? What happens to those numbers 2 months from now? It's a fickle metric based on who's popular at the moment.

61% of americans in a very recent poll want troops home within a year. The country is incredibly dissatisfied after 8 years of reps in the WH and are looking for a change to the dems. You voted for Bush twice and now support obama. Theres about 1000 people like you in the whole country. You won't be influencing the swing of this election. The overwhelming majority of dems will vote dem, and all the of huge turnouts at primaries, for both candidates, indicates a massive movement come november.

Saying Hillary is unelectable is partisan claptrap.

Yeah, all these talk about polls showing Obama is more electable against McCain is nonsense. If polls were the truth, Obama would have won California and Texas. You cannot base stuff on polls or some people saying something in random forum. You gotta look at the fact and the actual result. Hillary won the big states, that's a fact, and that's the key in the winer gets all process of the presidential election.

Did you believe Kerry would beat Bush?

As I said, wait and see. Hillary will not be the next President. More people will come out to vote against her than Obama.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

The position called liberalism. Watch the debates. Obama says he will encourage this and encourage that. He will create such and such environment to bring some change about. Hillary OTOH talks how she will mandate this and mandate that. Etc. Watch the debates. The "issues" are smokescreen for an authoritarian agenda.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

The position called liberalism. Watch the debates. Obama says he will encourage this and encourage that. He will create such and such environment to bring some change about. Hillary OTOH talks how she will mandate this and mandate that. Etc. Watch the debates. The "issues" are smokescreen for an authoritarian agenda.

Why do you believe that Hillary is using the issues as a smokescreen, but Obama is not using rhetoric as a smokescreen?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

That's actually a strong point in Hillary's favor in terms of electability. All the districts that Obama won will vote for her anyway and it would seem that she was more competitive in the swing/right leaning districts.

I still want Obama to win, but that's an interesting point in her favor.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

That's actually a strong point in Hillary's favor in terms of electability. All the districts that Obama won will vote for her anyway and it would seem that she was more competitive in the swing/right leaning districts.

I still want Obama to win, but that's an interesting point in her favor.

But that's the problem. They will all go to McCain. That's almost guaranteed. Hillary promises everybody everything. McCain is a straightshooter. Guess which ones Texans like better?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: loki8481
I think a social moderate, fiscal conservative, national security hawk might find fertile ground here.

McCain has all of the above, save the social moderation.

Are you honestly saying NJ/NY will be possible Republican states?

I can't really say much about NY since my exposure is strictly limited to the liberal bubble that is NYC and my only experience with upstate NY was going to summer camp for 2 months every year during high school, but I could see NJ being competitive in an Obama v McCain race... significantly less so if it were Hillary v McCain.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

That's actually a strong point in Hillary's favor in terms of electability. All the districts that Obama won will vote for her anyway and it would seem that she was more competitive in the swing/right leaning districts.

I still want Obama to win, but that's an interesting point in her favor.

But that's the problem. They will all go to McCain. That's almost guaranteed. Hillary promises everybody everything. McCain is a straightshooter. Guess which ones Texans like better?

I will not vote for Hillary. I think she has run a dishonest smear campaign just like Dub did. I am tired of Washington slimeballs running this country. I do not like McCain much but he has shown more integrity than Hillary Clinton. Obama is even better but if we are too stupid to nominate him we deserve to lose again.

 

[StageLeft]

Obama is even better but if we are too stupid to nominate him we deserve to lose again.

I don't want to, but am inclined to agree. The Democrats have nominated complete frigging douches the last two times around and the last loss was especially ridiculous. The election was given to them on a silver platter and they had to nominate Kerry. Now we see them ready to cut their nose off to spite their face again. Well, some of them. Not enough. Obama will win the pledged delegates--this is almost inevitable and barely comprehensible that he doesn't, so only if the dems raise to historically-consistent levels of stupidity again and use supers to trump that will they put hillary in front.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

The position called liberalism. Watch the debates. Obama says he will encourage this and encourage that. He will create such and such environment to bring some change about. Hillary OTOH talks how she will mandate this and mandate that. Etc. Watch the debates. The "issues" are smokescreen for an authoritarian agenda.

Obama doesn't need to be president to encourage things. He can yell out attaboys as a senator. There are real issues in this country in case you aren't noticing, and they aren't a smokescreen, and all the encouragement has failed to deal with them for decades.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

The position called liberalism. Watch the debates. Obama says he will encourage this and encourage that. He will create such and such environment to bring some change about. Hillary OTOH talks how she will mandate this and mandate that. Etc. Watch the debates. The "issues" are smokescreen for an authoritarian agenda.

Mandating universal health care (wealth/resource redistribution from haves to needs) is an extremely liberal position, even further from the republicans than Obama's more permissive system. This seems to cut against your McCain = Hillary claim.

 

[StageLeft]

Mandating universal health care (wealth/resource redistribution from haves to needs) is an extremely liberal position, even further from the republicans than Obama's more permissive system. This seems to cut against your McCain = Hillary claim.

Then when that's done she can mandate $5k for each new baby.

I think Vic is saying she's republican in her methods, though clearly she's hardcore crazy liberal in some of her positions.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

That's actually a strong point in Hillary's favor in terms of electability. All the districts that Obama won will vote for her anyway and it would seem that she was more competitive in the swing/right leaning districts.

I still want Obama to win, but that's an interesting point in her favor.

That would be a valid point... except democrats vote in democratic primaries (for the most part). She's not going to get all those independents who prefer Obama

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Yes, I agree, Hillary as the nominee would send a ton of voters to McCain. I think that's obvious, and there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious.

Nope, nothing wrong with stating the obvious, unless it's completely against the data. Obama's supporters are more liberal than Hillary's, and if he gets the nomination, more of Clinton's supporters go to McCain than would Obama's supporters if Hillary wins the nom.

The opposite of what you claim is obvious is true according to: http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6333

Hillary supporters support her in large part because they believe experience matters. 25% would go with McCain over Obama. Meanwhile 86% of Obama supporters would support Clinton in the general. If you have data other than your own guessitmate as to what is obvious I'd be interested in seeing it.

http://www.people-press.org/re...splay.php3?PageID=1254

One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton.

Yet in polls pitting McCain vs Obama, Obama wins while the opposite happens with McCain vs. Hillary.

I'll say it for the record. If Hillary wins, she'll beat McCain just like Kerry beat Bush. It won't happen. Obama has the best chance between of the two Dems. If the Dems front Hillary, I'll vote McCain along with a ton of other people. Wait and see.

I disagree and with the sources above as evidence. If Obama gets the nom, seniors (who have a proven track record of actually voting) will go McCain in larger numbers. Remove the impetus for women to get heavily involved and the Dems will also lose that advantage. Hillary as the nom motivates women to come out and vote for her as Obama motivates the black vote. But women make up a far larger constituency.

Recent compiled polling results (http://www.realclearpolitics.c...esident/national.html) show Obama has a 4 pt advantage over McCain while Hillary ties. That's not a margin worth basing a vote on. 2 months ago Hillary was far ahead in the same poll. What will happen now that she's won TX/OH? What happens if she wins PN? What happens to those numbers 2 months from now? It's a fickle metric based on who's popular at the moment.

61% of americans in a very recent poll want troops home within a year. The country is incredibly dissatisfied after 8 years of reps in the WH and are looking for a change to the dems. You voted for Bush twice and now support obama. Theres about 1000 people like you in the whole country. You won't be influencing the swing of this election. The overwhelming majority of dems will vote dem, and all the of huge turnouts at primaries, for both candidates, indicates a massive movement come november.

Saying Hillary is unelectable is partisan claptrap.

Hillary motivating women is the best argument I've heard for her electability

 

[Lemon law]

Obama still has the won in the primary or caucus delegate count lead by maybe a 100 or so, with not that many remaining to go. At least those won in the election or primary process can be
mostly counted on up to the first ballot. The 796 super delegates are free to change their minds at any time.

And the way it looks after March 4, is that neither Obama or Hillary can go over the 2025 top
with just delegates won in the primary and caucus process.

So its almost certain that the super delegates will be the deciding factor assuming both Obama and Hillary semi equally split the remaining to be won delegates. But Hillary being about a 100 behind in delegates counts now means she must win by about a 60 40 margin to reach 2025. And Obama wins in an even split.

So we must ask what will be going through the mind's of super delegates who will decide this.

1. They will prefer a first or second ballot win to keep the party united.

2. Political I owe you's may slightly favor Hillary.

3. The way their State voted favors Obama enough to tip the nomination to him unless post March 4 primaries show the Obama candidacy losing all momentum and focus.

4. And then it comes to the crucial question of electability in November. Personally I think little of the argument that Hillary has carried the big States. Most of those go traditionally to democrats, at least in the case of New York and California. And either Hillary or Obama will carry those democratic blue states. And if Texas goes democratic in November, the GOP was doomed anyway. Its those swing States that will decide the election of 08 and Ohio is somewhat the anomaly this year. Most of the swing States have gone Obama and that is the Obama strong suit that he can appeal to rational republicans and independents without the negatives Hillary is saddled with. And McCain is going to have to run on the GWB record which is a big problem the GOP. Especially if the economy sours and the foreign adventure occupations have a rebirth of violence.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Hillary and Obama share nearly identical campaign platforms. Which positions of hers are so much farther to the right then Obama's?

The position called liberalism. Watch the debates. Obama says he will encourage this and encourage that. He will create such and such environment to bring some change about. Hillary OTOH talks how she will mandate this and mandate that. Etc. Watch the debates. The "issues" are smokescreen for an authoritarian agenda.

Mandating universal health care (wealth/resource redistribution from haves to needs) is an extremely liberal position, even further from the republicans than Obama's more permissive system. This seems to cut against your McCain = Hillary claim.

No, it's not. You could call mandating UHC a progressive position, but it is not necessarily a liberal position. You clearly don't know what liberal is. The very basis of the liberal position is to use the carrot instead of the stick. Otherwise, we may as well go back to having monarchs if individual rights and the will of the people mean nothing if they stand in the way of some ideological goal.

Plus, Hillary's plan is not mandate UHC, but to mandate that everyone has to buy private health insurance. What planet are you from that you can call that UHC?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

More abysmal nonsense.

Pro-choice? Hillary not McCain
No torture? Hillary, not McCain
Pull out of Iraq? Hillary, not McCain
Universal Healthcare? Hillary, not McCain
Repeal Tax cuts? Hillary, not McCain

Obama is not an empty suit. He's an extremely bright and charismatic guy and would be a fine nominee.

Did McCain ever support waterboarding? He voted yes on the bill that restricted interrogation by civilian intelligence bodies to the Army field manual, which follows the Geneva convention AFAIK.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

Did anyone else notice the precinct-level maps on Clinton vs Obama last night? They looked just like the Bush vs Kerry maps. The same people who voted for Dub voted for Hillary. I do not think that is a coincidence. They are a lot alike.

That's actually a strong point in Hillary's favor in terms of electability. All the districts that Obama won will vote for her anyway and it would seem that she was more competitive in the swing/right leaning districts.

I still want Obama to win, but that's an interesting point in her favor.

That would be a valid point... except democrats vote in democratic primaries (for the most part). She's not going to get all those independents who prefer Obama

If that's true, then why did she win Ohio? Anyone in the state can vote for whoever they choose. I sincerely doubt that Rush Limbaugh's appeal to the rednecks in that state caused enough to go vote for Hillary to create that disparity.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

More abysmal nonsense.

Pro-choice? Hillary not McCain
No torture? Hillary, not McCain
Pull out of Iraq? Hillary, not McCain
Universal Healthcare? Hillary, not McCain
Repeal Tax cuts? Hillary, not McCain

Obama is not an empty suit. He's an extremely bright and charismatic guy and would be a fine nominee.

Did McCain ever support waterboarding? He voted yes on the bill that restricted interrogation by civilian intelligence bodies to the Army field manual, which follows the Geneva convention AFAIK.

Yes he supported waterboarding, there was recently a vote to specifically ban waterboarding that he voted against. I guess he was against it before he was for it.

 

[KrispyKreme50]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama certainly loses me to McCain. I won't vote for that empty suit, no way.

That's because Hillary is more of a Republican than McCain is, and it's only the Hillarybots who can't see it.

More abysmal nonsense.

Pro-choice? Hillary not McCain
No torture? Hillary, not McCain
Pull out of Iraq? Hillary, not McCain
Universal Healthcare? Hillary, not McCain
Repeal Tax cuts? Hillary, not McCain

Obama is not an empty suit. He's an extremely bright and charismatic guy and would be a fine nominee.

Did McCain ever support waterboarding? He voted yes on the bill that restricted interrogation by civilian intelligence bodies to the Army field manual, which follows the Geneva convention AFAIK.

Yes he supported waterboarding, there was recently a vote to specifically ban waterboarding that he voted against. I guess he was against it before he was for it.

Look at question 22 for your answer:

http://www.youtube.com/republicandebate