**Official 2018-19 NFL Contract Controversy Week 5 Thread**

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PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
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Oh, I misread that as another ring. I was like uh ... did he win one and I forgot?????

I worked 20 hours of overtime this weekend, so I get to fall back on long weekend too.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
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Congrats to Brees, one of the most accurate arms ever to play the position, I'm still in awe of the game he had against Minnesota in the playoff's last year, 4th and 10 and he roped a throw across the field for an amazing 1st down, possibly one of the best "must have", "insane pressure" throws I've ever seen, gutsy dude!. Tough as a $4 dollar steak as well.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,198
28,568
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Pretty much...but come on...did you REALLY expect any different outcome?

Redskins are pretty tough to figure. Either they will play really well, and likely lose in the very end, or play like last night and lose convincingly, looking like a JV high school team, especially in the secondary...I mean, wth was that?

Going into last night game, I was down by 15 points, with Kamara, Lutz, Chris Thompson, and Cameron Jordan still to go. He had only Brees to go. I was the only remaining undefeated, with 2nd-highest points-total in the league, and actually was very likely to win...but then I realized Ingram was coming back. Man, my 4 guys took a uuuuuuuuuuge dump points-wise. I still only lost by 15, though. :D
 

PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
974
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I eeked out a tiny 82.9 point victory this week. I left quite a few points on the bench with Crowell too.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
DIdn't really expect the Redskins to win, but I didn't expect them to look like a highschool JV team either.

WAS defense this year has been very bipolar, they look like a top 5 squad at times that could hang with BAL or CHI defense. Then they turn around and look like they're guys who got cut from the arena league. For example with the Brees TD pass to break the record the corner spied Kamara looking for a screen and left Tre'Quan Smith *completely* uncovered. I know Kamara is a stud but you still can't give Brees an open man without a defender within 20 yards of him like that and expect to win.

 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,648
5,550
126
WAS defense this year has been very bipolar, they look like a top 5 squad at times that could hang with BAL or CHI defense. Then they turn around and look like they're guys who got cut from the arena league. For example with the Brees TD pass to break the record the corner spied Kamara looking for a screen and left Tre'Quan Smith *completely* uncovered. I know Kamara is a stud but you still can't give Brees an open man without a defender within 20 yards of him like that and expect to win.

That issue was that Josh Norman is an idiot and thought they called a different defense. I heard this morning from a local guy who watched the film and he said it is OBVIOUS that Norman ran the wrong play. He said it was obvious Norman was in a cover 2 whereas everyone else was in a cover 3, so likely he just completely didn't know the play. There's been a lot of chatter this season so far about Norman regressing big time, and things like this support it.
 
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Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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I called it on the Chiefs-Jags game. Jags were sloppy on offense (although Chiefs D deserves some credit for that - and hopefully it gives Bortles flashbacks if they play them again in the playoffs). But I think it also highlights something - the Chiefs offense, even when it isn't playing to its potential, wears the hell out of defenses. And they have enough playmakers - and even the 2nd, 3rd and 4th receivers are good enough with Mahomes at QB - that you pretty much can't defend it and they're going to move the ball on you. Chiefs biggest problem is themselves. Lack of discipline (had I think 5 unsportsmanlike/unnecessary roughness calls, two of their best players got ejected; Hunt will probably get fined again). Receivers still occasionally drop passes. Mahomes was too loose with his throws (2 INTs, but this and the Denver game he hasn't been consistently hitting guys in stride although he did have his usual several plays where you just laugh and shake your head at what he's capable of - he flicked his wrist and threw a gorgeous pass perfectly positioned for like 20 yards and a first down; I also don't like how many hits he takes although it doesn't seem to rattle him too much but there was one that looked similar to the play that Jimmy Garoppolo got injured on where he was fighting to stay in bounds instead of just sliding or going out). But even the Jags won't make excuses and said the Chiefs offense just dragged them all over the field. Ramsey mostly got the better of Tyreek but Romo was pointing out that he clearly was getting winded towards the end of the game (and it was around that time that Mahomes hit Tyreek for a 30 something yard pass on Ramsey, that could've been a TD but it was a little too close to the sideline for him to be able to keep his balance and stay in). This game was close to being a big blowout, and Chiefs can't be giving the other team opportunities to stay in and come back in the playoffs. At least the defense was tackling this game (still had too many wide open catches and big runs, but much less missed tackles - although they let Bortles run a TD in which some of that was probably not wanting to get a penalty). But they held them twice (on downs) inside the Red Zone. Chiefs had some injuries that won't help (right guard broke his leg, Justin Houston left before half time). Berry is doing more (still hasn't practiced yet) and his injury sounds like its going to perpetually bother him (grew a bone spur on his heel, supposedly he can get surgery to shave the bone to try and help with discomfort/pain, but I think it'll grow back again).

Chiefs could still possibly trade for Earl Thomas since he could come back this season. But I highly doubt it. Sounds like the Seahawks will probably franchise him and make a team give up a 1st round pick to get him, so they have no reason to accept less during the season (and the Chiefs would be more desperate to get his help hoping to make a Super Bowl run this season, so the Seahawks would have leverage, oh and they play each other in the 2nd to last week I think, so that game could have playoff implications). Some Chiefs fans now trying to make a fuss about they should trade for Landon Collins of the Giants.



I want to laugh as every post where you talk about Cousins, you perfectly describe Alex Smith. Granted, I haven't seen you defend Smith, so maybe you realize that. I'm still baffled that they could've had Cousins locked up (so none of that offseason drama for the 3 years there), cheaper for those two years (plus probably cheaper than Alex Smith is for them now), not have had to give up Fuller (who was really liked on the team) and the other pick, and Cousins is younger (which when they're roughly equal, you go for the younger guy most of the time). Plus if he kept playing like he was, and they were able to find their QBotF, they could've traded Cousins instead of see him walk after balking over his contract wants but paying him what $45 million for 2 seasons? Granted, at the point they let Cousins walk and made the Alex Smith trade, they couldn't undue their incredibly poor handling of Cousins, but it just amazes me how badly the Redskins front office and management/ownership can screw up like every situation. But then maybe the Redskins being stuck with Smith now is why you're mad at Cousins? Like a reverse of the 49ers fans that loved Smith because they got stuck with Kaepernick, even though Smith wasn't going to win them jack shit, especially after Harbaugh was gone.



I don't really expect a steep decline, because I think Brady will retire before that really shows and I think Belichick wouldn't put him out there. And I think he's doing something to make sure that happens on his terms. That we haven't seen much consistent sign of his physical skills declining, and in fact, it seems like every time people start to question it, he gets a "second wind" and plays like him from a decade earlier. That is not natural.



Yes, and people have said that before only for him to go on a tear and make people eat crow. He's always been slow and awkward when running. Which that's also part of my argument. You guys seem to think juicing is only about stuff like that. Its not. That's like the people that kept arguing that certain baseball players weren't using PEDs because they didn't put on mass like Bonds and some of the others did. There's more to it than that. And I think you guys are ignoring how much it helped Manning. Go back and look at what was being said about his throwing in those private sessions before he actually signed with the Broncos. He was fucking done, until he started on HGH and who knows what all. His neck was good enough to play due to the stem cell treatments, but the rest of his body was not so he had to do that stuff just to play. And it helped him play possibly better than he had ever before.

He's not throwing deep balls because who is he going to throw them too? Gronk is almost perpetually injured, they haven't had a deep threat this year til Gordon (who just started playing, which that he's already out there is telling how desperate they are to get a legitimate deep threat because they're not prone to pushing guys out before they learn the offense pretty well - which I doubt Gordon has had time to yet) since they let the others ones that could've offered that either walk or traded them. And it'll take time for them to get their offense clicking.

I remember people saying he was showing clear signs of decline 4 years ago when the Chiefs kicked the shit out of the Patriots (the one where they put Jimmy in for like the last like 10 minutes and marched them down and scored a TD). People started wondering about them going with him over Brady, and it clearly bothered Brady because he got ownership to make Belichick - yes Bill Belichick, after 5 Super Bowl wins and 7 appearances and nearly perpetual AFC Championship appearances - trade Jimmy. Brady played so bad that people asked if he was done, right then and there, like it happened all of a sudden, almost overnight even. And he's been as good if not better (considering the talent he's had around him) in the years since then. That isn't normal. Only two players I can think of that were anything like that are Manning (who I guarantee juiced) and maybe Favre (although Favre had gotten really inconsistent as his career went on, two of his final 4 years were some of his better ones).



Its hard for me to accept people putting the Vikings' record on Cousins. He's played quite well (pretty much up to expectations). Their defense has not played the same and I think their running game has declined (although I don't know that it was spectacular last season, it sounded like it was worse this year). Considering they played the Rams when the Rams were hitting on all cylinders and actually hung with them some, even though the defense wasn't playing like it used to. Even the great ones take time to acclimate to a new team, but Cousins has played well enough. It too is entirely possible that he'll hit his ceiling and not be much better or that he'll bounce off his ceiling already and get worse. If the defense was playing like it was last year, it wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't. Maybe they played above themselves (nothing drastically mind you, but they made the NFC Championship on a miracle play), and so they were naturally going to taper off a bit. It happens. But that's not on Cousins. And the Vikings didn't really have much chance at a better option or even taking a risk in the hope they get one like drafting one of the 4 QBs that went in the 1st round, so they made the right move, especially after seeing Keenum in Denver (better than earlier in his career but not as good as last year).



People said the same thing about Lance Armstrong and a lot of other athletes that eventually got nailed on it. You would be ignoring that without that stuff, Brady might never be the player with that reputation, so he risked it to get it. That's why they do it, because it makes them demigods and if they don't get caught people will gladly not even think about it (or even be very aggressive in defending them against it, remember how people used to defend Lance Armstrong; they did the same thing when the Manning stuff came out and I bet you they'd do the same thing for Brady). If they get caught they can trot out any number of excuses or, just apologize and be graceful about it (which will win people over). I think its prevalent in all high level sports (and a lot of lower level ones too - its not uncommon in high school football), and I think when someone is that popular and important to a billion dollar team and league, that they'll be more than happy to look the other way. I don't think he's juicing in the traditional sense either (so he could easily pass the testing), which is why I think a lot of people will say no way. He's not looking for strength and he's not going to suddenly show up jacked and playing like Cam Newton or Tebow, he's looking for recovery and stamina (which is why I mentioned stuff like the blood doping that the cyclists were doing).

Plus, uh, he was willing to put that in jeopardy over the inflate-gate stuff (I'm pointing to his actions when the NFL was investigating). Like with the spygate stuff, they weren't the only ones doing it, and its kinda just one of those unspoken things, and so the NFL isn't super keen on being really transparent or thorough and having it revealed as it'll hurt them. Steroids used to be that way in the NFL, so its hardly unprecedented. Its also in the NFL's interest for players to do this type of stuff so that they don't end up broken husks of themselves when they're 50-60, like so many of the old players did.

I agree to your point about Brady, but I think purbeast0 is right when he said the Pats scheme hides his decline. That I am going to pay more attention to Sunday Night.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
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That issue was that Josh Norman is an idiot and thought they called a different defense. I heard this morning from a local guy who watched the film and he said it is OBVIOUS that Norman ran the wrong play. He said it was obvious Norman was in a cover 2 whereas everyone else was in a cover 3, so likely he just completely didn't know the play. There's been a lot of chatter this season so far about Norman regressing big time, and things like this support it.

Personally, I did think Norman was that good anyway. I recall the chatter being when he left Carolina, a change in system would expose him a bit.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,648
5,550
126
Personally, I did think Norman was that good anyway. I recall the chatter being when he left Carolina, a change in system would expose him a bit.
He was pretty good his first year, but since then has steadily been average, if that. I don't think he has had an interception since 2016.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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Congrats to Brees, one of the most accurate arms ever to play the position, I'm still in awe of the game he had against Minnesota in the playoff's last year, 4th and 10 and he roped a throw across the field for an amazing 1st down, possibly one of the best "must have", "insane pressure" throws I've ever seen, gutsy dude!. Tough as a $4 dollar steak as well.

You mean THE most accurate arm to ever play the position. To make the stat stand out even more he has never had a big name receiver to throw to and spreads the ball out to more receivers that you've never heard of better than anyone in the game, year after year. Not to mention that he keeps losing a lot of his go-to targets, they even traded Jimmy Grahm who was an absolute beast of a TE and always a clutch receiver.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
28,430
40,155
136
You mean THE most accurate arm to ever play the position. To make the stat stand out even more he has never had a big name receiver to throw to and spreads the ball out to more receivers that you've never heard of better than anyone in the game, year after year. Not to mention that he keeps losing a lot of his go-to targets, they even traded Jimmy Grahm who was an absolute beast of a TE and always a clutch receiver.
He's had plenty of good recievers - Marquis Colston/Michael Thomas/Jimmy Graham/Jeremy Shockey/ Brandin Cooks aren't no-name and he's always had good running backs while he's been in N.O.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
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You mean THE most accurate arm to ever play the position. To make the stat stand out even more he has never had a big name receiver to throw to and spreads the ball out to more receivers that you've never heard of better than anyone in the game, year after year. Not to mention that he keeps losing a lot of his go-to targets, they even traded Jimmy Grahm who was an absolute beast of a TE and always a clutch receiver.
Well, to be fair, many NFL teams try and "cheap out" like this, look at the Pats who wanted a proven "deep threat" WR, they got one from NO in Cooks and he put up great numbers with Brady last year, but he was traded to the Rams prior to the season's start, why?, his rookie contract was due to expire and as a top talent he was going to get paid big bucks.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
28,430
40,155
136
Well, to be fair, many NFL teams try and "cheap out" like this, look at the Pats who wanted a proven "deep threat" WR, they got one from NO in Cooks and he put up great numbers with Brady last year, but he was traded to the Rams prior to the season's start, why?, his rookie contract was due to expire and as a top talent he was going to get paid big bucks.
I also think that the general thinking is that WR's are easier to find when you have a great QB