**Official 2018-19 NFL Contract Controversy Week 5 Thread**

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Yep, this is probably a controversial topic to begin with, but I'd rather get this out before Thursday night so those who want to can talk about the actual game.

I was personally disgusted by Earl Thomas' BS flip off last week when his season ended. Yes, I understand he was angry about getting hurt without a contract past this season. That part I DO get, though I didn't like his reaction.

I heard some nonsense by Shannon Sharpe talking about how Earl Thomas "out performed his contract". What the hell does that mean? Once you sign your deal, the owners have fulfilled their obligation to you and DO NOT OWE YOU ANYTHING else. Instead of blindly hopping on the "just pay the man" bandwagon, why not remind these guys that they are not owed anything once they sign, and that they are paid based on what they WILL do, not what they've already done, or what they currently do. In a contract year, players show out so they can get paid, and the Seahawks aren't going anywhere, so I wouldn't pay him either.

The Lions (my team) are in the same boat with Golden Tate. The guy is killing right now. He has 90+ catches each year for the last 3 I believe. But how many years will he perform at the level a new contract anticipates he will? Let him walk next season. I want to be able to sign younger players.

MLB is rife with horrible, unmovable contracts because of stuff like this. The NFL knows this, and won't fall into that trap. In the NFL, its more risky to get tied up with bad, long term deals because a player can literally physically fall off of a cliff the very next season because of the nature of the sport, so then you are stuck paying a player a ton of guaranteed money and not getting any return. This affects the cap and ability to sign players.

Guaranteed contracts under the next CBA? Nope. But if yes, best believe they'll be a lot shorter, 3 years or less for non-QBs.

Conclusion: Play your contract or don't come to work. Bet on yourself. Save your money because during hold outs you don't get paid. The team with either break or not.

/rant. :tonguewink:

Thursday, October 04, 2018

Indianapolis Colts at New England Patriots 8:20p FOX/NFLN

Sunday, October 07, 2018


Tennessee Titans at Buffalo Bills 1:00p CBS
New York Giants at Carolina Panthers 1:00p FOX
Miami Dolphins at Cincinnati Bengals 1:00p CBS
Baltimore Ravens at Cleveland Browns 1:00p CBS
Green Bay Packers at Detroit Lions 1:00p FOX
Jacksonville Jaguars at Kansas City Chiefs 1:00p CBS
Denver Broncos at New York Jets 1:00p CBS
Atlanta Falcons at Pittsburgh Steelers 1:00p FOX
Oakland Raiders at Los Angeles Chargers 4:05p CBS
Minnesota Vikings at Philadelphia Eagles 4:25p FOX
Arizona Cardinals at San Francisco 49ers 4:25p FOX (TRASH GAME -- I'm not touching this one).
Los Angeles Rams at Seattle Seahawks 4:25p FOX
Dallas Cowboys at Houston Texans* 8:20p NBC

Monday, October 08, 2018


Washington Redskins at New Orleans Saints 8:15p ESPN

*Bye: Bears Bucs
 
Last edited:

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,562
3,393
136
Being in the last year of a contract would really suck, because you get hurt bad enough and the paychecks stop after that season. I think he was performing well enough to get at least a one year extension. Hopefully he's got enough saved up.

Earl was the last guy on my LoB shirt from the first Super Bowl season. :-(
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Being in the last year of a contract would really suck, because you get hurt bad enough and the paychecks stop after that season. I think he was performing well enough to get at least a one year extension. Hopefully he's got enough saved up.

Earl was the last guy on my LoB shirt from the first Super Bowl season. :-(

Yeah, its tough.
 
Last edited:

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Continuing the discussion from the last week thread:

ARod isn't in the elite class anymore. He hasn't thrown for more than 300 yards since week 3 of last year. He's nowhere to be seen on any of the passing statistics leader boards this year - for example he's only averaging 7.2 yards per completion this year which is literally half of what Goff's rate is (hell, even Josh Allen is at a 12.1 yards/completion). Pull up any other QB stat and it's more of the same. Any honest person wouldn't consider him to be a Top 10 QB this year.

So after 4 games you've decided a hobbled Rogers isn't a top 10 QB anymore? Are you trying to say you'd take Josh Allen over Aaron Rogers?

Health and supporting cast definitely matters. I'd say he isn't a top 10 QB right now. Nor is Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, or some of the others who would have been considered to be "elite" not long ago. Situations change constantly in the NFL and sometimes being talented isn't enough. Hell, look at Foles winning a Super Bowl last year to see how much supporting cast is far more important than strictly comparing "talent" levels. Given their actual circumstance and supporting casts (rather than a theoretical "if he was healthy and had better skill players to throw to" as if we could magically put him on another team) would you really rather say you'd have ARod over Brees or Mahomes right now? IMHO you have to go outside the Mahomes/Brees/Cousins/Goff range and into the Big Ben/Dalton/Rivers range to correctly rank ARod right now. Brady is kinda the odd man out here because it's not atypical for the Pats to start slow and still wind up in the SB due to playing an atrocious division that almost guarantees them a divisional crown but even knowing that it's not out of the question that TB12 is cooked and on the cliff of his career now.

So you ARE saying you would take Josh Allen over Rogers. I think you are alone with that one.

I also never heard anyone really say Luck or Wilson were close to the Elite level. They simply don't have close to a sample size of playing well as someone of Rogers caliber. I think most people outside of Seattle homers know that Wilson wasn't doing much of what he did by himself.

No, I cited one stat where Allen did better than ARob as an example. Allen's supporting cast is way worse than GB's by orders of magnitude (it might actually be one of the worst offenses in my lifetime) which goes back to my point. QB value should reflect talent plus situation plus health plus competition. Anyone who would rank a one-legged ARod with meh weapons, bad defense, and playing in a super competitive division as among the "Elite QBs" this year is simply wishful thinking. As I said earlier it's really a stretch to even consider him a top 5 QB this year given all factors I cited and arguably he might fall outside the top 10. Next year he might be 100% healthy and GB have a better team (via draft, free agency, or trades) and it's completely reasonable to say he could be in the mix for NFL best QB again, but this year it ain't happening IMHO. Even if you put him on the Rams in place of Goff it seems his knee might prevent him from having an MVP level season even with all those weapons and an amazing offensive scheme and coordinator.
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,406
20
81
Hopefully this is not a preview of what's to come tonight. Sorry, Colts, you'll never live that one down.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
Hopefully this is not a preview of what's to come tonight. Sorry, Colts, you'll never live that one down.

dude, it's not really their fault. That play was designed for the band to run onto the field, assuming the quarter was over, because it looked like they were walking off the field. It is a brilliant trick play design.

The ball was supposed to be snapped when the low brass section was approaching the line of scrimmage, running full tilt through the Patriot line. A tuba in your face is a pretty effective way to confuse a defensive lineman, and so the path would have been clear to run the boot leg to the weak side.

The band just didn't show up, assholes.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,799
5,676
126
And just like that the Patriots are back to kicking ass and all is normal in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ken g6

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
yeah it's always stupid doom and gloom for the Pats for some reason.

But hey, beating up on the sad Dolphins and the pathetic Colts is a good way to get back into the groove.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,204
3,764
75
yeah it's always stupid doom and gloom for the Pats for some reason.
Every quarterback loses their edge eventually. And when they do they tend to fall quickly. It's just a matter of time. Other teams, particularly in their division, are probably just hoping they'll get a chance against the Patriots someday soon.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Every quarterback loses their edge eventually. And when they do they tend to fall quickly. It's just a matter of time. Other teams, particularly in their division, are probably just hoping they'll get a chance against the Patriots someday soon.

It might be picking nits but TB12 isn't throwing deep as often as he used to, Intended Air Yards per Attempt and Completed Air Yards per Attempt are both down quite a bit from 2017 and earlier. Maybe that's because he's less comfortable with his long throws due to Father Time creeping up. Or he's just taking what's being offered in combination with having good rapport with certain players. Small sample sizes so far, but it remains worth watching regardless. Especially in the post-season when playing JAX and their really great CBs will be a major factor, if Brady doesn't attempt those long balls to Josh Gordon in favor of short dumpoffs to James White then the Jags may completely rip them apart.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2018/all
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Another bust of a TNF game.

I didn't really watch it, but I hate that its on FOX because it totally takes the place of local programming that I love but cant watch anymore.

Anyway. as was mentioned, I laughed at all the "doom and gloom" prophets saying the Pats were done because "this year is different" for some reasons I don't care to recount.

Yes, they looked poor vs the Lions, but so what? Every team is due for at least one piss poor performance a year. No one was picking the Fins to go to the SB.

But I am kind of shocked at how average the Vikings defense looks so far. I knew it would be hard to sustain that level of play. The 2001 Ravens are often referenced to illustrate that.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
Every quarterback loses their edge eventually. And when they do they tend to fall quickly. It's just a matter of time. Other teams, particularly in their division, are probably just hoping they'll get a chance against the Patriots someday soon.

Impossible to lose the edge when you're on the TB12 routine!


...barf. :D
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,799
5,676
126
I didn't really watch it, but I hate that its on FOX because it totally takes the place of local programming that I love but cant watch anymore.

Anyway. as was mentioned, I laughed at all the "doom and gloom" prophets saying the Pats were done because "this year is different" for some reasons I don't care to recount.

Yes, they looked poor vs the Lions, but so what? Every team is due for at least one piss poor performance a year. No one was picking the Fins to go to the SB.

But I am kind of shocked at how average the Vikings defense looks so far. I knew it would be hard to sustain that level of play. The 2001 Ravens are often referenced to illustrate that.
If I remember correctly, you are the local market for Patriots right? Because it wasn't on FOX for me. It was on NFL Network like normal TNF games.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
If I remember correctly, you are the local market for Patriots right? Because it wasn't on FOX for me. It was on NFL Network like normal TNF games.

I live in Michigan, so I guess I am in their market. I get Pats games on a regular basis.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
If I remember correctly, you are the local market for Patriots right? Because it wasn't on FOX for me. It was on NFL Network like normal TNF games.

Isn't FOX carrying most of these games nationally, just like CBS? did the last couple of years? I was a bit surprised, because you and I are the same market and I could swear that I watched it on FOX, but then realized I was watching through Prime, because of the weather (tends to botch my OTA signals. :D)
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,799
5,676
126
Shit well maybe I did have it on FOX but I just didn't realize it lol. I was watching on NFL and was wondering why Troy and Buck were doing the game and saw it was FOX but I figured it was just something special for the night. Looking at the listings from last night it was on FOX around me too, so nevermind!
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Impossible to lose the edge when you're on the TB12 routine!


...barf. :D

At this point I'm thinking his career ends with an injury than a performance decline like PFM throwing wounded ducks in the SB Being in his 40s it would be much harder to come back from something like an ACL tear and he'd probably just hang up his cleats if one happened.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
Shit well maybe I did have it on FOX but I just didn't realize it lol. I was watching on NFL and was wondering why Troy and Buck were doing the game and saw it was FOX but I figured it was just something special for the night. Looking at the listings from last night it was on FOX around me too, so nevermind!

Yeah I think the FOX broadcasts this year started with last week's Thursday night game. I'm not sure if they last until the end of the season, though. They have "most" games, so certainly not all of them.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
At this point I'm thinking his career ends with an injury than a performance decline like PFM throwing wounded ducks in the SB Being in his 40s it would be much harder to come back from something like an ACL tear and he'd probably just hang up his cleats if one happened.

A lot of people use the Peyton Manning analogy (not referring to you), but I think its all nonsense now. Yeah Manning fell off a cliff, but I think it has more to do with how to take care of yourself than with age, like was alluded to.

Shucks, Jordan wasn't known for taking care of himself as he smoked cigars and probably drank a lot, so he fell off a cliff a little too. Conversely, LeBron does take care of himself and when he retires, it won't be because he wore down in his mid to late 30s.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,444
28,997
146
A lot of people use the Peyton Manning analogy (not referring to you), but I think its all nonsense now. Yeah Manning fell off a cliff, but I think it has more to do with how to take care of yourself than with age, like was alluded to.

Shucks, Jordan wasn't known for taking care of himself as he smoked cigars and probably drank a lot, so he fell off a cliff a little too. Conversely, LeBron does take care of himself and when he retires, it won't be because he wore down in his mid to late 30s.

I wonder how much longer Peyton would have lasted if he didn't get beaten into a pulp by the same organization that is currently doing the same to Andrew Luck--a guy that very well could have, but certainly never will make the HoF.
 
Mar 11, 2004
22,975
5,418
146
Hate early games. Damn 10AM here, hopefully that Chiefs/Jags game is worth it. Have a hunch it might be a bit of a dud (either Mahomes has his first bad game, or bunch of fluke turnovers for either team makes it not very entertaining).

Oh and fuck Seattle. If they'd just have worked a trade for Earl Thomas with the Chiefs, he might've been able to shore up this defense. They're lucky as shit that Mahomes keeps it so that the despite how amazing they make the other team's offense look, its still the 2nd best on the field. Wonder if he'll give Ramsey a first hand look at that deep ball to Tyreek (on the preseason one, Ramsey commented on the NFL's Instagram video of it "DAMN!"; and him and Tyreek were trash talking but praising each other; will be interesting to hear what Ramsey has to say if he goes off about various QBs next offseason).

A lot of people use the Peyton Manning analogy (not referring to you), but I think its all nonsense now. Yeah Manning fell off a cliff, but I think it has more to do with how to take care of yourself than with age, like was alluded to.

Shucks, Jordan wasn't known for taking care of himself as he smoked cigars and probably drank a lot, so he fell off a cliff a little too. Conversely, LeBron does take care of himself and when he retires, it won't be because he wore down in his mid to late 30s.

The thing is, it was a major injury that really did Manning in. 100% the league turned a blind eye and let Manning get away with treatment that...I'm not sure is legal at all in the US, let alone supported by the NFL so that he could get a few more magic years in. Without it he could not have played again (not even kidding, without the stem cell treatments for his neck and then the HGH and who knows what else for his arm/body, his career was over). But I think they realized the heat was on with regards to some of the other (like the HGH) so Manning cut it back (because if it got found out, it'd tarnish his entire career), and then his body went to shit very quickly from there.

I personally think Brady has been doing something. I don't give a shit who you are, you do not improve in athletic performance as you age past your 20s, unless you went from not taking steroids, HGH, and/or some other treatments, to doing that stuff when you're older, which would let you push past what was your prime even in your 20s with more traditional means. Yes the game is safer, but its more than just not getting injured. I'm wondering if some of these guys haven't been doing blood treatments (there's the type that like the cyclists did, but there's others; and there was that research showing how transferring blood from young rats to older ones rejuvenated them).

To be fair, I don't think its just those two doing it. James Harrison was almost certainly juicing on something. And there's some others. Tony Gonzalez is another one that tried to make it seem like it was his diet and changing his workout that helped him stay in such great shape. I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry Rice was as well (and he was another one that I think ran a smokescreen with all this "alternative" medicine and other things to try and cover that maybe the longevity of his career and high level of play wasn't entirely natural). I can't really fault them for it, though, but I don't think we have the whole story and that there's a concerted effort to pass this shit off as people buying into some of these new fad diets or other thing when there's much easier explanations. Its not just the NFL either (remember a couple years back when special diets helped a bunch of NBA players drop like 15-20lbs, and they were going around saying how they felt like they were 10 years younger? And some of them play like it...). And of course baseball, cycling, and various Olympic sports.

Which, a dirty secret that I don't think people really talk about with regards to the early NFL merger era, is how much steroids probably influenced who won. There was a "strength training" coach that was making his way around the NFL, and every team he ended up with had success while he was there. I think later on there was strong evidence this guy was doling out steroids as part of his "method", but then he couldn't do that any more and then the teams he was the strength training coach for stopped seeing the benefits of him as their coach. IIRC, he was with the Chiefs when they won, he was with the Raiders when they won in the mid-70s, he was with the Steelers when they won around the same time. At the time, steroids weren't common (that happened more in the 80s), so it was a major edge for teams that were doing it during that era.

That's not to take things away from these guys, as it takes more than just that to be a great football player for years (and when a good portion of the players are doing stuff like that, just to be able to compete and make a team, let alone when there's potentially millions if not tens of millions of dollars on the line...), and some do just have more natural ability (even steroids won't give a noodle-armed guy the cannon that others have). Honestly, I'd be all for them pushing the boundaries on treatments, as naturally they're pushing the limits of the human body. I just wish we didn't have to have this stupid false cover. Oh its these amazing new diets and some protein shakes and Gatorade (which those latter two alone make a hell of a lot of difference, but think about the accumulative aspect of all these things, its like a completely different realm as far as performance possibilities).

Funny thing is, all the normal assholes I know that got into that stuff (so the ones that went all in on shit like keto or paleo and crossfit), also started using all manner of "supplements" and other shit at the same time, but they try to act like its diet and exercise alone. Although they don't exactly hide it and when pressed they get defensive "well I still have to put the time in the gym in and fuel myself properly by eating right". Which you do have to do that stuff as well, so it absolutely takes hard work, time and effort even, or actually especially when you're using things to push yourself beyond what you'd achieve with just diet and exercise. But, that its pretty blatantly ignored in discussion is fucking ridiculous and bullshit, and its helping fuel other problems (so many of those assholes are the ones pushing this "well if you just eat this diet and do exercise you'd have a body like mine in just a couple of months!"), because people don't know how much of the modern healthy lifestyle is bullshit and isn't just diet and exercise (again, not saying that stuff doesn't matter, but it does not account for all the claims most of them make). I remember reading some of those bodybuilding magazines in high school. All the articles they'd talk up the diet and exercise but rarely really mention the other unless they were specifically plugging it. But then you'd turn the page and see an ad with the person from the article shilling supplements and other shit. Which a lot of the stuff they were shilling wasn't really responsible for it either (they were on full on steroids), which just another layer of bullshit on top of the bullshit.

I wonder how much longer Peyton would have lasted if he didn't get beaten into a pulp by the same organization that is currently doing the same to Andrew Luck--a guy that very well could have, but certainly never will make the HoF.

That's a good question. But then how much of his success was natural? There's an article I saw recently where they talked to Bruce Arians. And he tells a story about how poor Peyton was a throwing deep early in his career. I think Arians said he couldn't hit shit basically past 40 yards, but that they got that up to about 55 over the course of one year. You're not going to extend how far you can accurately throw a pass by just normal throwing work, you have to be able to throw it harder too.

Which that's going to be a very interesting debate in the future, how much have players gotten enhanced, in instances where it was in the past a potentially career ending injury. Look at Brees. Did his shoulder injury actually help him? I think he threw harder after it. Which, that might just be down to the rehab, he basically built the muscle up in a very optimal manner so it was like he rebuilt his shoulder and shaped it into something better than it was before. And knee ligaments used to be devastating to players on field performance, now they almost don't seem to miss a beat (I've speculated before, how long before players get pre-emptive surgery on some of these ligaments that are prone to tearing, to reinforce and/or have them built to be better than they were naturally).

Which, I'm curious if for brain trauma they won't develop some method of jamming a needle (or making like a valve) through your skull, and then kinda doing a "flush" of the cerebral fluid (drain it, filter out the bad stuff, then put it back in, like if they could get it to flush out that buildup. Likely while they're under and/or induced into a short coma (during which they might do other stuff).
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Hate early games. Damn 10AM here, hopefully that Chiefs/Jags game is worth it. Have a hunch it might be a bit of a dud (either Mahomes has his first bad game, or bunch of fluke turnovers for either team makes it not very entertaining).

Oh and fuck Seattle. If they'd just have worked a trade for Earl Thomas with the Chiefs, he might've been able to shore up this defense. They're lucky as shit that Mahomes keeps it so that the despite how amazing they make the other team's offense look, its still the 2nd best on the field. Wonder if he'll give Ramsey a first hand look at that deep ball to Tyreek (on the preseason one, Ramsey commented on the NFL's Instagram video of it "DAMN!"; and him and Tyreek were trash talking but praising each other; will be interesting to hear what Ramsey has to say if he goes off about various QBs next offseason).



The thing is, it was a major injury that really did Manning in. 100% the league turned a blind eye and let Manning get away with treatment that...I'm not sure is legal at all in the US, let alone supported by the NFL so that he could get a few more magic years in. Without it he could not have played again (not even kidding, without the stem cell treatments for his neck and then the HGH and who knows what else for his arm/body, his career was over). But I think they realized the heat was on with regards to some of the other (like the HGH) so Manning cut it back (because if it got found out, it'd tarnish his entire career), and then his body went to shit very quickly from there.

I personally think Brady has been doing something. I don't give a shit who you are, you do not improve in athletic performance as you age past your 20s, unless you went from not taking steroids, HGH, and/or some other treatments, to doing that stuff when you're older, which would let you push past what was your prime even in your 20s with more traditional means. Yes the game is safer, but its more than just not getting injured. I'm wondering if some of these guys haven't been doing blood treatments (there's the type that like the cyclists did, but there's others; and there was that research showing how transferring blood from young rats to older ones rejuvenated them).

To be fair, I don't think its just those two doing it. James Harrison was almost certainly juicing on something. And there's some others. Tony Gonzalez is another one that tried to make it seem like it was his diet and changing his workout that helped him stay in such great shape. I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry Rice was as well (and he was another one that I think ran a smokescreen with all this "alternative" medicine and other things to try and cover that maybe the longevity of his career and high level of play wasn't entirely natural). I can't really fault them for it, though, but I don't think we have the whole story and that there's a concerted effort to pass this shit off as people buying into some of these new fad diets or other thing when there's much easier explanations. Its not just the NFL either (remember a couple years back when special diets helped a bunch of NBA players drop like 15-20lbs, and they were going around saying how they felt like they were 10 years younger? And some of them play like it...). And of course baseball, cycling, and various Olympic sports.

Which, a dirty secret that I don't think people really talk about with regards to the early NFL merger era, is how much steroids probably influenced who won. There was a "strength training" coach that was making his way around the NFL, and every team he ended up with had success while he was there. I think later on there was strong evidence this guy was doling out steroids as part of his "method", but then he couldn't do that any more and then the teams he was the strength training coach for stopped seeing the benefits of him as their coach. IIRC, he was with the Chiefs when they won, he was with the Raiders when they won in the mid-70s, he was with the Steelers when they won around the same time. At the time, steroids weren't common (that happened more in the 80s), so it was a major edge for teams that were doing it during that era.

That's not to take things away from these guys, as it takes more than just that to be a great football player for years (and when a good portion of the players are doing stuff like that, just to be able to compete and make a team, let alone when there's potentially millions if not tens of millions of dollars on the line...), and some do just have more natural ability (even steroids won't give a noodle-armed guy the cannon that others have). Honestly, I'd be all for them pushing the boundaries on treatments, as naturally they're pushing the limits of the human body. I just wish we didn't have to have this stupid false cover. Oh its these amazing new diets and some protein shakes and Gatorade (which those latter two alone make a hell of a lot of difference, but think about the accumulative aspect of all these things, its like a completely different realm as far as performance possibilities).

Funny thing is, all the normal assholes I know that got into that stuff (so the ones that went all in on shit like keto or paleo and crossfit), also started using all manner of "supplements" and other shit at the same time, but they try to act like its diet and exercise alone. Although they don't exactly hide it and when pressed they get defensive "well I still have to put the time in the gym in and fuel myself properly by eating right". Which you do have to do that stuff as well, so it absolutely takes hard work, time and effort even, or actually especially when you're using things to push yourself beyond what you'd achieve with just diet and exercise. But, that its pretty blatantly ignored in discussion is fucking ridiculous and bullshit, and its helping fuel other problems (so many of those assholes are the ones pushing this "well if you just eat this diet and do exercise you'd have a body like mine in just a couple of months!"), because people don't know how much of the modern healthy lifestyle is bullshit and isn't just diet and exercise (again, not saying that stuff doesn't matter, but it does not account for all the claims most of them make). I remember reading some of those bodybuilding magazines in high school. All the articles they'd talk up the diet and exercise but rarely really mention the other unless they were specifically plugging it. But then you'd turn the page and see an ad with the person from the article shilling supplements and other shit. Which a lot of the stuff they were shilling wasn't really responsible for it either (they were on full on steroids), which just another layer of bullshit on top of the bullshit.



That's a good question. But then how much of his success was natural? There's an article I saw recently where they talked to Bruce Arians. And he tells a story about how poor Peyton was a throwing deep early in his career. I think Arians said he couldn't hit shit basically past 40 yards, but that they got that up to about 55 over the course of one year. You're not going to extend how far you can accurately throw a pass by just normal throwing work, you have to be able to throw it harder too.

Which that's going to be a very interesting debate in the future, how much have players gotten enhanced, in instances where it was in the past a potentially career ending injury. Look at Brees. Did his shoulder injury actually help him? I think he threw harder after it. Which, that might just be down to the rehab, he basically built the muscle up in a very optimal manner so it was like he rebuilt his shoulder and shaped it into something better than it was before. And knee ligaments used to be devastating to players on field performance, now they almost don't seem to miss a beat (I've speculated before, how long before players get pre-emptive surgery on some of these ligaments that are prone to tearing, to reinforce and/or have them built to be better than they were naturally).

Which, I'm curious if for brain trauma they won't develop some method of jamming a needle (or making like a valve) through your skull, and then kinda doing a "flush" of the cerebral fluid (drain it, filter out the bad stuff, then put it back in, like if they could get it to flush out that buildup. Likely while they're under and/or induced into a short coma (during which they might do other stuff).
I disagree with Brady possibly juicing, his resume was already so well padded at 35 or so would anyone REALLY want to wreck it with a steroid or HGH positive?. It's not like he's hurting for $$ and desperately want's to extend his playing time for a big payday. Look at how Brees has been the last few years, I'd bet he's focusing on taking better care of himself as well. While I have doubts on much of the "TB12 method" a good diet and enhanced exercise program has to be helping and it's not like Brady's gonna outrun anyone, ever. he's just using all those years of experience to make the game easier for himself.
 
Last edited: