***Official*** 2016 Stock Market Thread

[MomentsofSanity]

My only options are None or All or None. I choose none and it's still slow to fill.

Willing to disclose the symbol name? I can take a look at it (broker) to see how it's trading. Usually when we see this the "Last" price hit someone's limit but not the Bid. Depending on your broker most use Bid price when you're selling. If the Bid hasn't hit you aren't active on your order.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Looks like shorting those Chesapeake $4 puts for $1.70 was a good deal after all. Too bad I did not also go long. LOL!

 

[FelixDeCat]

Thx, someone mentioned Gold NUGT last week and I've been in that for a little this week.

Been in MNKD since last week it's been crazy 1.12 on Friday and up to 1.8 today. Not sure I'd buy it at this price but it's been up .25 the last two days

I was the one posting about NUGT.

NUGT 3x GOLD ETF has gone from $50s to 70s in a week, then back to the $50s and a week and half later its $85!!!@!!

 

[Imp]

Woot. A "report" said that Russia and the Saudis agreed on an output freeze, so oil surged 5%.

That's right. A "report." Just like the last dozen "reports."

 

[Miramonti]

Looks like shorting those Chesapeake $4 puts for $1.70 was a good deal after all. Too bad I did not also go long. LOL!

I looked at that a lot and regret not pulling the trigger. The premiums were ridiculously high. Fortunately there's always something else that comes along.

 

[holden j caufield]

Willing to disclose the symbol name? I can take a look at it (broker) to see how it's trading. Usually when we see this the "Last" price hit someone's limit but not the Bid. Depending on your broker most use Bid price when you're selling. If the Bid hasn't hit you aren't active on your order.

It was AMD I had a sell at 2.81 yesterday and it hit that multiple times.

Today i had 2.83 and it hit that multiple times. It didn't sell until it jumped to .84/.85

pretty much happens daily. It won't sell until it looks like the brokerage can make an extra .005 or .01

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It was AMD I had a sell at 2.81 yesterday and it hit that multiple times.

Today i had 2.83 and it hit that multiple times. It didn't sell until it jumped to .84/.85

pretty much happens daily. It won't sell until it looks like the brokerage can make an extra .005 or .01

But are you basing that off the last trade price or the bid price for the stock? If you're looking at the last that is why it looks wrong. the bid has to hit and hold at your price long enough for your order to fill depending how many orders are ahead of you.

 

[holden j caufield]

But are you basing that off the last trade price or the bid price for the stock? If you're looking at the last that is why it looks wrong. the bid has to hit and hold at your price long enough for your order to fill depending how many orders are ahead of you.

Status Filled at $2.83
Symbol AMD
Description ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC COM ISIN #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Action Sell
Quantity 4,000 Shares
Route CITADEL DERIVATIVES GROUP, L.L.C.
Order Type Limit at $2.83

They broke it up in 4 orders to fill today

Yesterday I had 4000 sell at 2.81

Symbol AMD
Description ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC COM ISIN #US
Shares -100.000
Price 2.81
Amount $273.04
Commission $7.95
Fees $0.01


they keep screwing me and sold 100 shares charging me $8 to sell 100 shares and 3900 unsold when 2.81 was hit multiple times. So I had to sell 3900 lot and get charged another $8 the next day.

I honeestly don't remember the bid but it's such a highly traded stock and my 4000 is such a small number I can't imagine it not being able to be filled.

Anyone use interactive brokers?

 

[Imp]

It was AMD I had a sell at 2.81 yesterday and it hit that multiple times.

Today i had 2.83 and it hit that multiple times. It didn't sell until it jumped to .84/.85

pretty much happens daily. It won't sell until it looks like the brokerage can make an extra .005 or .01

That .01 sounds like the bid/ask spread.

When selling, I always set my limit at the lower "bid" price, and when buying, I set at the higher "ask" price.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Status Filled at $2.83
Symbol AMD
Description ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC COM ISIN #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Action Sell
Quantity 4,000 Shares
Route CITADEL DERIVATIVES GROUP, L.L.C.
Order Type Limit at $2.83

They broke it up in 4 orders to fill today

Yesterday I had 4000 sell at 2.81

Symbol AMD
Description ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC COM ISIN #US
Shares -100.000
Price 2.81
Amount $273.04
Commission $7.95
Fees $0.01


they keep screwing me and sold 100 shares charging me $8 to sell 100 shares and 3900 unsold when 2.81 was hit multiple times. So I had to sell 3900 lot and get charged another $8 the next day.

I honeestly don't remember the bid but it's such a highly traded stock and my 4000 is such a small number I can't imagine it not being able to be filled.

Anyone use interactive brokers?

Yeah that's not them screwing you. Unless you condition the order all or none you're going to risk partial fills on a stock that is only flirting with your price.

Depending on when your order was put in the bid on AMD wasn't at 2.83 from 10:34:42 until 1:58:11. Prior to 10:34 it briefly flirted with that price on the bid for a few minutes.

If your order was entered during that time you wouldn't have filled out. Another issue is market orders jump ahead of limits. So if it only briefly hits your price but there are open markets those are filling first.

 

[Imp]

Ya, so Cenovus just cut the 250 people they said they were going to a few weeks ago.

http://www.reuters.com/article/cenovus-energy-redundancies-idUSL2N17F1IP

But hey, the price of oil is going up on unsubstantiated rumors and algo trading, that should mean good things. The CAD has risen about 15% relative to the USD since January, and Canada's supposedly banking on manufacturing jobs led by a weak currency to take up the slack, so all is well.

 

[Miramonti]

Anyone use interactive brokers?

Yes, for quite a while, and that's not really how it works. Unless you see $2.84 bid, you're not guaranteed a fill selling at $2.83.

If you're selling at $2.83, and the bid is $2.83, you may sell everything, you may sell some, and you may sell none, depending on how many competing shares were also offered at $2.83. These examples are not unique to IB, just how the market works.

IB doesn't modify your orders. However multiple buyers may have purchased some shares of your order up until the entire order is filled. Sometimes you may get a fill price better than your order, but you'll never get it worse than your order. Last I remember, for a single order (except stocks <$1 or $2), the base rate is $1 and it's $.005 per share after that. If you modify your order, then that makes it a new order and you'll have another $1 minimum base charge. Also, if the order isn't filled by the end of the day, you may have the $1 base charge at the beginning of the next day again (not sure.)

It sounds like your order was on the edge of the market range, and like it or not, the professionals trade with themselves (and they have incentives to do so) before the small independents get a piece of the pie. (one more thing, if your order was "hidden/iceburg", that makes filling it less efficient and can take longer, possibly missing the opportunity to execute the entire order at the time.)

 

[holden j caufield]

ok thanks for the info

Currently have accounts at TD ameritrade, fidelity and etrade.

Think I'm going to move some to Interactive Brokers, I"m getting charged $7.95 to 9.99 a trade + comissions. Already paid close to 1k in trade fees this year.

only hypothetical what if it reads like this

2.8 x220

2.83 x10

sometimes I'll even see some stocks

2.5 x100

3 x?

It's such a wide gap

 

[MomentsofSanity]

ok thanks for the info

Currently have accounts at TD ameritrade, fidelity and etrade.

Think I'm going to move some to Interactive Brokers, I"m getting charged $7.95 to 9.99 a trade + comissions. Already paid close to 1k in trade fees this year.

only hypothetical what if it reads like this

2.8 x220

2.83 x10

sometimes I'll even see some stocks

2.5 x100

3 x?

It's such a wide gap

Thinly traded stocks have a wider bid ask spread as that's where the order fillers make their cut. Also those spreads will widen in the after market as well.

The thing to remember is when you're setting limits/stops you look at the ask when you're buying and the bid when you're selling. The last price is irrelevant unless you're brokers trade platform lets you select what price to trigger off of (bid, ask, mark)

 

[Imp]

API report out... +6.2 million barrel build. They've been off compared to EIA, but they've been pretty consistent over the past few weeks. Gas and distillates drew down but not as much as they built last week by the looks of it. Global oil glut solved...

 

[Miramonti]

ok thanks for the info

Currently have accounts at TD ameritrade, fidelity and etrade.

Think I'm going to move some to Interactive Brokers, I"m getting charged $7.95 to 9.99 a trade + comissions. Already paid close to 1k in trade fees this year.

That is why I moved to IB. You really get screwed when one changes an order because the order didn't completely fill at a given price. As a result, you get another full commission each time you do. IB also has lower rates for small stocks based on the capital investment and not just quantity of shares, so you're not paying a lot per-share when buying penny stocks, where one might by a ton of shares for cheap.

only hypothetical what if it reads like this

2.8 x220

2.83 x10

That's normal, 22000 shares bid for, 1,000 offered (usually there are hidden orders not displayed as well, but often those bid/ask sizes are larks as well.)

sometimes I'll even see some stocks

2.5 x100

3 x?

It's such a wide gap

That would either be a *very* illiquid stock or a quote from before the market has opened or after it has closed for the regular market hours.

 

[Imp]

Anyone playing Valeant/VRX still?

There were "reports" of someone filing a notice of default an hour ago, it appears to have been confirmed.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/12/valeant-shares-fall-on-default-fears.html

Stock down after-hours.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Anyone playing Valeant/VRX still?

There were "reports" of someone filing a notice of default an hour ago, it appears to have been confirmed.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/12/valeant-shares-fall-on-default-fears.html

Stock down after-hours.

I got whipsawed so bad in that stock because it trades mostly on emotion (like most things I guess). F'ng zany stock. VRX makes no sense to me anymore so I stopped trading it.

I've heard if this quasi-default thing plays out the others might be forced to follow suit and the stock may fall to $20!!

(or it could be a buying opportunity, either way, Im staying away).

 

[Charmonium]

That is why I moved to IB. You really get screwed when one changes an order because the order didn't completely fill at a given price. As a result, you get another full commission each time you do. IB also has lower rates for small stocks based on the capital investment and not just quantity of shares, so you're not paying a lot per-share when buying penny stocks, where one might by a ton of shares for cheap.

I'd have to check this to be sure, but I think TD Ameritrade only charges you once for a partial execution. I know that's how it used to work so unless they've changed in the last few years, that should still be true.

But to be clear, by partial execution I mean automatic partial execution where TDA splits up your trade based on the size of bids at your price. If you do it manually, then of course you'll be charged for each trade.

 

[Miramonti]

I'd have to check this to be sure, but I think TD Ameritrade only charges you once for a partial execution. I know that's how it used to work so unless they've changed in the last few years, that should still be true.

But to be clear, by partial execution I mean automatic partial execution where TDA splits up your trade based on the size of bids at your price. If you do it manually, then of course you'll be charged for each trade.

I was referring to using limit orders that get only partially filled. So if you offered 300 shares and only got filled on 100, and then have to move limit order price, then Ameritrade considered the new price a new order and charged another full commission. I switched to IB in '05 so I'm not sure what it's been since then. If someone uses a market order, then of course it's only one commission regardless of how many individual trades it takes over a single or various prices.

 

[Imp]

I was referring to using limit orders that get only partially filled. So if you offered 300 shares and only got filled on 100, and then have to move limit order price, then Ameritrade considered the new price a new order and charged another full commission. I switched to IB in '05 so I'm not sure what it's been since then. If someone uses a market order, then of course it's only one commission regardless of how many individual trades it takes over a single or various prices.

Geeeezzz.... I've done that dozens of times -- moving my limit price due to partial fills and price shifting. Never even thought about there being an extra trade charge.

 

[Charmonium]

I was referring to using limit orders that get only partially filled. So if you offered 300 shares and only got filled on 100, and then have to move limit order price, then Ameritrade considered the new price a new order and charged another full commission. I switched to IB in '05 so I'm not sure what it's been since then. If someone uses a market order, then of course it's only one commission regardless of how many individual trades it takes over a single or various prices.

I was talking about limit orders. If you change the price then yes, you'll get charged another commission. But as long as you don't change anything, they'll continue buying at the price you specified until the order is complete. I've even seen them buy odd lots as part of a partial execution.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Geeeezzz.... I've done that dozens of times -- moving my limit price due to partial fills and price shifting. Never even thought about there being an extra trade charge.

Yeah most are going to hit you for a new commission if you change an order that's partially filled. They also will if your order is GTC and you get partial fills on the same order but on different days. Each day is considered a new order if there's any fills.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I think the rally continues.

 

[Imp]

Didn't you hear? China is in full recovery mode. Their trade data for March just came out... something about an 11% year over year gain and imports fell. Commodities and oil +10000%!