OFFICIAL 2012 NFL week 13 thread

[zinfamous]

I know this must be a weird concept for you but I actually have eyes and actually watch football, I don't go by just what the numbers say because numbers can lie. You can throw all the stats out you want, when I watch Wilson play I see a winner.

I made the same argument with Tebow, yea his completion percentage wasn't good but he won the game.

The Redskins defense has been just as responsible for the last couple wins as the Seahawks defense was in their last few wins. The Skins D stepped it up for those division games, we'll see if that continues but holding Eli to 16 pts and all of those field goals rather then touchdowns was all their defense.

You can argue that Wilsons team is better and thats why they have more wins, and thats probably true but its not so much better as to make it seem like its significant. By the end of the season, Luck and Wilson will be on winning teams, most likely playoff teams. RG3 will not be.

I think you are giving the Skins D waaaaaaaay too much credit. If you watched the game on Monday, you would have noticed Eli shredding them, completely unopposed, for nearly 3 quarters. I think they got their first 3 and out in the 4th quarter?

Holding them to field goals in the red zone is a great thing and all, but not when you allow the them to manhandle you for the previous 50-70 yards. The D only gets credited for "holding them to field goals" when the offense is responsible for giving the other team the ball on a short field.

 

[zinfamous]

Seriously? What ifs now? And if Lawerence Tynes didn't miss a chip shot they would have beat Skins and they would be 5-7. And thats just the last game, I'm sure there are a million what if scenerios. I don't play what ifs.

And if this supposed "world class" D of the Skins didn't choke earlier in the year on the final drive, the Skins would have swept lesser Manning.

RG3 is working against far more than you are willing to give him credit for and I still don't understand why.

The fact is neither of us can know how good WIlson and RG3, and Luck too - are going to be. We are making educated guesses based on all the football we've watched over the years and what we see in the individuals and what they might become. Even the best in the business make mistakes consistently and there are always surprises, even to the most knowledgeable people, on who will come out to be great and who isn't.

indeed. based on what I have seen so far, and know of their previous history--I would go with Wilson and Luck being the best over the long haul (I saw both of these guys play a lot in college, and very little of RG3....well, none, actually). If Griffin can settle into a more pocket-oriented offensive scheme, and very soon, then I think he has every bit the potential to become elite.

I don't so much think of the current option-oriented offense of the Skins as gimmicky/ineffective/crayon offense like the Manning brigade here call it--but it is problematic, simply because it will drastically limit that QB's career. Even if such a QB doesn't sustain a career-ending injury from it, they are gong to get worn down much quicker.

 

[Jeffg010]

I know this must be a weird concept for you but I actually have eyes and actually watch football, I don't go by just what the numbers say because numbers can lie. You can throw all the stats out you want, when I watch Wilson play I see a winner.

I made the same argument with Tebow, yea his completion percentage wasn't good but he won the game.

The Redskins defense has been just as responsible for the last couple wins as the Seahawks defense was in their last few wins. The Skins D stepped it up for those division games, we'll see if that continues but holding Eli to 16 pts and all of those field goals rather then touchdowns was all their defense.

You can argue that Wilsons team is better and thats why they have more wins, and thats probably true but its not so much better as to make it seem like its significant. By the end of the season, Luck and Wilson will be on winning teams, most likely playoff teams. RG3 will not be.

No one takes you serious when you say Tebow is a good quarterback. People are laughing at you for how stupid you are for thinking that.

 

[diesbudt]

I know this must be a weird concept for you but I actually have eyes and actually watch football

And you are biased as all hell. And I do not watch football...? Your arguments make no sense.

I don't go by just what the numbers say because numbers can lie. You can throw all the stats out you want, when I watch Wilson play I see a winner.

And YET you used numbers to try and prove via the running backs which QB was better/not as good.

I made the same argument with Tebow, yea his completion percentage wasn't good but he won the game.

Because the broncos were at least a decent team via defense, and Oline and such. Put Tebow as starter on the Kansas city chiefs and I bet they do no better then they are now. Support plays a huge role on QB's win/losses.

The Redskins defense has been just as responsible for the last couple wins as the Seahawks defense was in their last few wins. The Skins D stepped it up for those division games, we'll see if that continues but holding Eli to 16 pts and all of those field goals rather then touchdowns was all their defense.

And yet, 29th def in the league compared to a top 5? defense from seattle, and as Zin said... you watched this game yet didn't see eli rip through the D? Sure they didn't score enough points to win... Guess you are lying to me now abotu having eyes or watching football. Either or.

You can argue that Wilsons team is better and thats why they have more wins, and thats probably true but its not so much better as to make it seem like its significant. By the end of the season, Luck and Wilson will be on winning teams, most likely playoff teams. RG3 will not be.

Actually I feel RG3 may win the divison, only 1 game behind the giants and they are struggling. And redskins on a 3 game winning streak. And playoffs? barry Sanders, one of the most skilled running backs in the game, and the lions couldn't do anything worth something record wise. 1 player doesn't mean playoffs.

Seriously? What ifs now? And if Lawerence Tynes didn't miss a chip shot they would have beat Skins and they would be 5-7. And thats just the last game, I'm sure there are a million what if scenerios. I don't play what ifs.

You don't seem to get it, but I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that I'm right. I couldn't care less if you agree with me on Wilson and disagree with me on RG3. I'm not trying to win an argument. I just laid out my opinion.

A) What ifs? Dude the call was wrong. That is not a what if. And thus the "practical records" of the 2 teams are 6-6. Just because 7-5* will be in place in the record books at this point for the seahawks instead does not mean anything.

B) I was never trying to convince you, until you commented on how I was wrong/whatever. Again lying by saying you are not trying to convince me, and thus I have to respond.

C) And of course we do not know down the line, but since this argument came up about rookie of the year... this is the only year that matters.

I never said RG3 will be better than Wilson years down the road. For all we know Luck, RG3, Tannehill, and Wilson are all 1 year ponys.

 

[zinfamous]

No one takes you serious when you say Tebow is a good quarterback. People are laughing at you for how stupid you are for thinking that.

generally...yes.

But Tebow does win, and you can't argue against that.

Of course, this argument that AMD makes as the only reason for supporting Tebow rejects his more common argument of "numbers and winning don't tell you everything, or much."

:hmm:

 

[Jeffg010]

generally...yes.

But Tebow does win, and you can't argue against that.

Of course, this argument that AMD makes as the only reason for supporting Tebow rejects his more common argument of "numbers and winning don't tell you everything, or much."

:hmm:

You would think if he was winner he would be a starter for the jets.

 

[AMDZen]

No one takes you serious when you say Tebow is a good quarterback. People are laughing at you for how stupid you are for thinking that.

Thats fine, couldn't care less. I know he is a winner and if he had been given the chance, would probably have the Jets at .500 or better right now.

Do you honestly think I care what you guys on this forum think of my football IQ or how I honestly think Tebow is a winner? Never said he was a great quarterback, but he is good - good enough to be a starter in this league and better then quite a few that are starting

 

[AMDZen]

generally...yes.

But Tebow does win, and you can't argue against that.

Of course, this argument that AMD makes as the only reason for supporting Tebow rejects his more common argument of "numbers and winning don't tell you everything, or much."

:hmm:

Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! My argument has always been all along that winning is the only number that matters.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story in regard to things like QBR or quarterback rating.

 

[zinfamous]

You would think if he was winner he would be a starter for the jets.

Rex Ryan is retarded. It baffles me that the majority of the football world haven't wised up to that, yet.

He brought Tebow there only because he was "a winner." Ryan claims to be a true believer in Tebow, much like AMDZen.

Honestly, I have no idea why he didn't bring him in about 5 games into the season, as that is the entire reason he is in NY.


But, that being said, at least Ryan seems to have some sense of loyalty (despite the idiocy of it), unlike fracking Harbaugh in SF. Kaepershit is a sham, and that much should be clear by now. Smith has been one of the top rated QBs over the last two seasons, and there is simply no reason to abandon him in the middle of the season like this. I think Harbaugh has one of the best football heads out there, but this baffles me. I can't simply take it on faith that Harbaugh must know what he's doing, because none of this makes sense.

 

[AMDZen]

I think you are giving the Skins D waaaaaaaay too much credit. If you watched the game on Monday, you would have noticed Eli shredding them, completely unopposed, for nearly 3 quarters. I think they got their first 3 and out in the 4th quarter?

Holding them to field goals in the red zone is a great thing and all, but not when you allow the them to manhandle you for the previous 50-70 yards. The D only gets credited for "holding them to field goals" when the offense is responsible for giving the other team the ball on a short field.

Bend do not break. London Fletcher as the leader on that defense, you guys aren't giving them enough credit.

 

[Jeffg010]

Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! My argument has always been all along that winning is the only number that matters.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story in regard to things like QBR or quarterback rating.

Then the Steelers are the greatest team ever from winning all their Superbowls.

 

[AMDZen]

Rex Ryan is retarded. It baffles me that the majority of the football world haven't wised up to that, yet.

He brought Tebow there only because he was "a winner." Ryan claims to be a true believer in Tebow, much like AMDZen.

Honestly, I have no idea why he didn't bring him in about 5 games into the season, as that is the entire reason he is in NY.


But, that being said, at least Ryan seems to have some sense of loyalty (despite the idiocy of it), unlike fracking Harbaugh in SF. Kaepershit is a sham, and that much should be clear by now. Smith has been one of the top rated QBs over the last two seasons, and there is simply no reason to abandon him in the middle of the season like this. I think Harbaugh has one of the best football heads out there, but this baffles me. I can't simply take it on faith that Harbaugh must know what he's doing, because none of this makes sense.

Its complete bullshit and the way they have treated Tebow over there is bullshit. He was given a choice between New York and Jacksonville, he chose NY presumably because Rex Ryan told him he really wanted him and probably gave him the notion he'd have a chance to start. Rex Ryan was gushing over Tebow on the Thursday night game that he came back and beat them in the 4th quarter, and then again when he traded for him.

Its shear arrogance after they gave Sanchez a huge contract that they aren't playing Tebow. Its Rex Ryan being prideful to a fault, and he doesn't want to be shown to be completely wrong on Sanchez giving them the best chance to win, when Tebow steps in and DOES WIN!!!!

 

[diesbudt]

generally...yes.

But Tebow does win, and you can't argue against that.

Of course, this argument that AMD makes as the only reason for supporting Tebow rejects his more common argument of "numbers and winning don't tell you everything, or much."

:hmm:

There is no doubt. Tebow won way more than loss with the broncos. But that isn't because of Tebow. As I said put tebow on teh chiefs or some other team that can't win normal enough to matter and you will see a difference in the w/l ratio of tebow.

 

[zinfamous]

Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! My argument has always been all along that winning is the only number that matters.

Numbers don't always tell the whole story in regard to things like QBR or quarterback rating.

yet you seem to think that the Skins 29th ranked D is more responsible for their actual wins than RG3 is. This is painfully absurb, particularly if you've watched any of the Skins games this year.

Bend do not break. London Fletcher as the leader on that defense, you guys aren't giving them enough credit.

London Fletcher has always been awesome, but he's slow this year--I don't think he'll miss a game, but he's been on "should bench" status for several weeks now. Must other guys would be taking these injuries and sitting out.

Also, Orakpo has been gone the entire season.

Also, there is no secondary in Washington. None.

 

[AMDZen]

Then the Steelers are the greatest team ever from winning all their Superbowls.

The argument could be made that they are the best team over the entire NFL existence, for sure. Because they've won more SB's then any other team, and in all era's.

It doesn't make their fans any less arrogant or any less then a giant bunch of assholes

 

[diesbudt]

Thats fine, couldn't care less. I know he is a winner and if he had been given the chance, would probably have the Jets at .500 or better right now.

Do you honestly think I care what you guys on this forum think of my football IQ or how I honestly think Tebow is a winner? Never said he was a great quarterback, but he is good - good enough to be a starter in this league and better then quite a few that are starting

You obviously do, or you would stop defending your opinions, especially when it is in the minority or the forum opinions.

And saying win/loss is the other thing that matters. And stats don't? lol.... wow.... ok.

 

[zinfamous]

There is no doubt. Tebow won way more than loss with the broncos. But that isn't because of Tebow. As I said put tebow on teh chiefs or some other team that can't win normal enough to matter and you will see a difference in the w/l ratio of tebow.

Oh, I agree. I think he would actually do pretty well on the Jets, as well. Simply because of this.

But you would think that a guy like Sanchez, who clearly has better "QB skills" than a guy like Tebow would be able to do something with that offense. Apparently not.

whatever it is, Tebow brings something to an offense. It makes no sense, but maybe it doesn't have to.

 

[AMDZen]

There is no doubt. Tebow won way more than loss with the broncos. But that isn't because of Tebow. As I said put tebow on teh chiefs or some other team that can't win normal enough to matter and you will see a difference in the w/l ratio of tebow.

The same team was 4-14 under Orton over 2 years and 1-4 under Orton just that season.

Bullshit it wasn't Tebow. It was mostly Tebow. So fuck off

 

[AMDZen]

You obviously do, or you would stop defending your opinions, especially when it is in the minority or the forum opinions.

And saying win/loss is the other thing that matters. And stats don't? lol.... wow.... ok.

Are you paying attention? I said stats aren't the ONLY thing that matters and that they sometimes don't tell the whole story. At least quote me correctly

I don't go by just what the numbers say because numbers can lie.

I should have been more specific because in this context I meant in regards to QBR and quarter back rating.

And I still don't care if you agree with me or not

 

[Jeffg010]

The argument could be made that they are the best team over the entire NFL existence, for sure. Because they've won more SB's then any other team, and in all era's.

It doesn't make their fans any less arrogant or any less then a giant bunch of assholes

We have to be arrogant when it comes to the Steelers because we have the Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

[diesbudt]

The same team was 4-14 under Orton over 2 years and 1-4 under Orton just that season.

Bullshit it wasn't Tebow. It was mostly Tebow. So fuck off

Not his skill though. It was his "x-factor".

Something unmeasurable. Same thing Luck brought the colts. The colts didn't suck so bad last year because they didn't have a good Qb, but because they mentally beat themselves believing they were in trouble w/o manning.

In comes a new kid who has shown good QB play in college, along with an addition or 2, and the same team looks better. Not THAT MUCH better, because well... they are being carried by luck.

But reggie wayne and a few others look 5x better than last year, and it isn't just because of luck's skill set.

Also, going back to the "record thing" by that argument, Matt Ryan is tied for the best QB in the NFL this year. And anyone who has even a shred of logical-thought in their brain realizes that is not true by a long shot.

 

[diesbudt]

Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! My argument has always been all along that winning is the only number that matters.

There quoted you.

^
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "


Should I keep quoting you?

 

[diesbudt]

We have to be arrogant when it comes to the Steelers because we have the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Didnt the pirates break .500 this past MLB season?

 

[AMDZen]

Oh, I agree. I think he would actually do pretty well on the Jets, as well. Simply because of this.

But you would think that a guy like Sanchez, who clearly has better "QB skills" than a guy like Tebow would be able to do something with that offense. Apparently not.

whatever it is, Tebow brings something to an offense. It makes no sense, but maybe it doesn't have to.

There are intangibles, especially at the QB position, that make it hard to see why some QB's are so successful when others aren't. Look at Matt Ryan in the playoffs over his career, or Tony Romo. Great stats all season, go to playoffs and suck. Mental things, whatever it is, some people step up when it matters most.

 

[AMDZen]

There quoted you.

^
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "
"Bullshit. Winning tells you EVERYTHING!! "


Should I keep quoting you?

And exactly where have I made an argument that winning isn't everything?