OFFICIAL 2012 NFL week 13 thread

[AMDZen]

The only reason you would enjoy seeing him get knocked out is because you don't like him. And you don't like him because...other people do? You should hate someone for a legitimate reason, like they praise Jesus too much. I hate Eli Manning because he's stupid looking and was dreadful to watch on SNL. And also he seems to suck until it really matters and then you're like, "WTF! He doesn't deserve that!" All of these are good reasons to hate an NFL quarterback. There isn't really anything to hate about RG3, he's a classy guy with a good attitude, not full of himself, doesn't run a dog fighting ring, the locker room likes him, and is a pretty darn good QB.

You act like your reason for disliking manning is somehow more credible then mine for disliking RG3. I like Manning because I've had to root for him twice to beat the gay Patriots in super bowls. Especially the first time when they were 16-0 which I had big money on that season that the Pats wouldn't go undefeated.

Also, my reasons for not liking RG3 isn't just because other people do like him - its that other people LOVE HIM and say things like he is better then Luck and that more teams would have drafted him first over Luck - which I find preposterous.

I also don't like him because his girlfriend is ugly, Tannehill and Luck both have gorgeous GF's that make me envious.

Oh and also I don't like dreads



In reality I just don't like Dan Snyder and I wish failure on Mike Shannehan and his nepotism. I think thats the main reason

 

[hclarkjr]

OOPS. I read it wrong, I thought you meant that they WOULD make the playoffs. Nevermind. I guess its just hclark who still lives in crazytown where they do make the playoffs.

YAYY!!! SKINS ARE MAKING THE PLAYOFFS!!!! thanx AMDZen :thumbsup:

 

[AMDZen]

YAYY!!! SKINS ARE MAKING THE PLAYOFFS!!!! thanx AMDZen :thumbsup:

I feel so flattered that you think I have some unreasonable power on the events of the NFL, by simply saying someone won't win that they will. I presume the opposite is also true?

In that case. Redskins go undefeated and make the playoffs.

There!!

EDIT: The sad part is that you probably do believe that.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

hey, at least that other team seems to be providing you more entertainment that your own. You sure spend an awful lot of time concerning yourself with teams that have no impact whatsoever on your own...

I told you Indy was the most boring team in the league.

You're right, winning all the time can be boring. That's why I get so much enjoyment out of watching Norval flailing. I pray every night that the Chargers DON'T fire him. First Del Rio was fired, and now Turner in all likelihood -- who will I laugh at now? I guess Garrett is still around -- but then again, maybe not!

 

[Imported]

I thought this was interesting:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/83695/wilson-luck-vs-same-seven-opponents

Wilson and Luck have played seven of the same teams..

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I thought this was interesting:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/83695/wilson-luck-vs-same-seven-opponents

Wilson and Luck have played seven of the same teams..

I was surprised the record was that close. Wilson has better stats, but as the article points out, Luck really is a one-man show in Indy with no supporting running game, a terrible offensive line, and an erratic defense and therefore, more is asked of him. With that being said, I think Wilson probably deserves ROY if they make the playoffs.

Luck is not perfect and threw some bad passes in the Detroit game. He needs to work more on timing with his receivers and learn when to take sacks.

 

[Farang]

I was surprised the record was that close. Wilson has better stats, but as the article points out, Luck really is a one-man show in Indy with no supporting running game, a terrible offensive line, and an erratic OL and therefore, more is asked of him. With that being said, I think Wilson probably deserves ROY if they make the playoffs.

Luck is not perfect and threw some bad passes in the Detroit game. He needs to work more on timing with his receivers and learn when to take sacks.

I'm not familiar with IND but Seattle is pretty shallow at WR. The completion %, and especially INT stats, make Luck a hard case.

I'm a Seattle fan but I think its 1) RGIII, 2) Wilson close second, 3) Luck a bit more distant at third, but in the conversation. Wilson if he goes to the playoffs can make a strong enough case, depending how RGIII performs

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ahem

When you look into the clutch moments, suddenly that QBR and Win Probability Added start to make some sense, do they not? Luck is significantly outplaying the other two in that case.

Wilson and Griffin are very good, but when it comes to tough situations where you need to come through, Luck is on a whole different level in this rookie class, and when compared to any rookie period.

 

[manimal]

You're right, winning all the time can be boring. That's why I get so much enjoyment out of watching Norval flailing. I pray every night that the Chargers DON'T fire him. First Del Rio was fired, and now Turner in all likelihood -- who will I laugh at now? I guess Garrett is still around -- but then again, maybe not!

You will always have lovie smith.

 

[diesbudt]

What are you talking about? Nobody said that. His biggest fan tried to make it out to be a positive thing and a reason he should win rookie of the year.

LOL

We are just pointing out how ridiculous that notion is.

I don't hate RG3 at all, I hate all the hype surrounding him because he is NOT better than Luck. Hell, at this point, I don't even know if he is better than Russell Wilson.

Guys, seriously - you do realize that this season, Russell Wilson has defeated Aaron Rodgers (on a fluke but still), Tom Brady, Tony Romo and Jay Cutler? He has faced and defeated some of the best teams in the league. And nobody even talks about him. So now RG3 finally has a legitimate win, the first one this season IMO.

Why? Because everyone is too busy sucking on RG3's nuts to even realize other things that are going on in the league.



That could still happen.

I didn't know Russel Wilson played Defense.

 

[diesbudt]

QB Envy is such an ugly trait Zin. Give in and become a Colts fan.

I live in Indy.

I am not a colts fan. never liked them.

Luck is cool, and I thik he has a smart head on his shoulder, and great supporting players on the team.

Doesn't mean I like them though.

 

[diesbudt]

This must be correct, because football is now a head to head boxing match of only quarterbacks, and the rest of the team doesn't matter. I guess?

RG3 is more exciting than Russell Wilson because he carries the team. He's managed to get them to .500 dispite his teammate's best efforts to the contrary. The rest of the team is mediocre, actually just now they are starting to show some glimmers of hope.

Rushing QB or not, who gives a fuck, you guys love to throw that out like it's some sort of insult. The kid is smart. And the plays they are running are smart, the defense doesn't know if it's pass, rush, or draw. He'll calm down and start sliding to avoid hits before next year. Hits on him in the pocket, after the throw, well that really doesn't have anything to do with his style of play. The league is working hard to protect quarterbacks. I do worry about him getting injured or burning out but I think he's going to develop a lot in the off season.

Which will start on December 30th because they're still not going to make the playoffs.

Seattle has a tough defense. That is the primary reason why they are winning against some of the better teams. It is not Russel Wilson. Russel Wilson is playing well for a rookie, but not near Luck or RG3 standards, especially since RG3 has to pull the Redskins along...

 

[diesbudt]

Wow is this a first? Is this the first time we have agreed on something?

I would still take Luck first, but I would take Wilson second, then Tannehill, and then RG3. I think Tannehill is overlooked because he has NOBODY to throw the ball to and NO offensive line, and yet has had a decent season as well.

I said about Andy Dalton that he would be better then Cam Newton and probably the best of last years draft. Personally I think that looks pretty good right now.

The problem is that there was lots of tape on Cam Newton and defenses learned how to cover him. The same thing will happen with RG3 next year, he will have to prove himself in his 3rd-5th years in the league and we probably won't know until year 3-4 what he will be in the long run. Same goes for Cam Newton, he will have to adjust to the fact that everyone has adjusted to him, we will see if he can come back next year. Josh Freeman did from his sophmore slump

Still wish Wilson was playing for my Rockies but they are a lost cause any way

Except for putting WIlson above RG3, I will agree to your comments. Especially Tanehill. Surprise player of the year, with such weak support.

Poor guy

 

[zinfamous]

Except for putting WIlson above RG3, I will agree to your comments. Especially Tanehill. Surprise player of the year, with such weak support.

Poor guy

I don't see how Wilson can't be ahead of RG3 at this point. I get that you might be a bit bitter with him--hell, I would be too. that game is stain on the season--but record means a lot, and he's beating RG3 out on that.

Luck is doing better in that regard, of course, and has a much better shot of making the playoffs than either Seattle or Washington

 

[diesbudt]

I don't see how Wilson can't be ahead of RG3 at this point. I get that you might be a bit bitter with him--hell, I would be too. that game is stain on the season--but record means a lot, and he's beating RG3 out on that.

Luck is doing better in that regard, of course, and has a much better shot of making the playoffs than either Seattle or Washington

Bitter with him? No.

I like the guy, he has spunk and talent and has done no ill offense to me. It isn't like he was the ref on the GB - Sea game. His anwser even on the question after the game if he thought it was a touchdown was classy. He never said it was or wasn't just that they practiced the Hail mary every week, because you do not know when you will need it, and am glad it resulted in a TD. He never said he believed it was a TD like Golden tate swore he caught the ball first.

However seattles Defense is one of the best out there this season. They shut down so many offenses that should have ran over them. Russel wilson is doing enough to win more than lose, but with that defense and MArshawn lynch (One of my top Fantasy scorers this season) running back, the support Russel has is much more than RG3. And yet the redskins can still win the division with a weak team. And thus I believe RG3 is having to pull more weight around to pull off the wins they are doing, than russel is for the seahawks, and thus I see him as the better player. Plus it helps RG3 is more a running QB than Wilson, so teams without a lot of tape on him (see Newton) are havign issues controlling him.

Only 2 teams that have less points scored on them than the seahawks (202) this season is the 49ers (171) and Bears (198). And tehy are not in the top 16 (top half) of the NFL of points scored.

Again my opinion that the redskins are a much worse overall team, that only reason they are .500 is because they have RG3. Russel wilson could be on the sideline and Flynn could be in, and I bet the record doesn't really move any, because of the seahawks support.

 

[zinfamous]

Bitter with him? No.

I like the guy, he has spunk and talent and has done no ill offense to me. It isn't like he was the ref on the GB - Sea game. His anwser even on the question after the game if he thought it was a touchdown was classy. He never said it was or wasn't just that they practiced the Hail mary every week, because you do not know when you will need it, and am glad it resulted in a TD. He never said he believed it was a TD like Golden tate swore he caught the ball first.

However seattles Defense is one of the best out there this season. They shut down so many offenses that should have ran over them. Russel wilson is doing enough to win more than lose, but with that defense and MArshawn lynch (One of my top Fantasy scorers this season) running back, the support Russel has is much more than RG3. And yet the redskins can still win the division with a weak team. And thus I believe RG3 is having to pull more weight around to pull off the wins they are doing, than russel is for the seahawks, and thus I see him as the better player. Plus it helps RG3 is more a running QB than Wilson, so teams without a lot of tape on him (see Newton) are havign issues controlling him.

that's fair. no reason to be bitter with him, I guess He definitely has a much better team around him than the other 2, but he's also trying to get to the playoffs in the toughest division of the 3. The only glaring problem with the skins right now is their secondary. and well, the pass rush. It seems like RG3 can make the people around him seem much better, so maybe just getting a solid TE or WR is all they really need on that side of the ball (god bless Alfred Morris).

I just don't know what's going on in Indy. That team is horrible outside of Luck.

 

[AMDZen]

However seattles Defense is one of the best out there this season. They shut down so many offenses that should have ran over them. Russel wilson is doing enough to win more than lose, but with that defense and MArshawn lynch (One of my top Fantasy scorers this season) running back, the support Russel has is much more than RG3. And yet the redskins can still win the division with a weak team. And thus I believe RG3 is having to pull more weight around to pull off the wins they are doing, than russel is for the seahawks, and thus I see him as the better player. Plus it helps RG3 is more a running QB than Wilson, so teams without a lot of tape on him (see Newton) are havign issues controlling him.

PLEASE!!

In terms of scoring in Fantasy, in standard leagues:

Marshawn Lynch is ranked #6 with 160.7 pts in 13 weeks
Alfred Morris is ranked #10 with 146.8 pts in 13 weeks.

Thats a difference of 13.9 pts or about 10 yards a game. Alfred Morris is every bit of the back Lynch is (at least in that system), the difference is that RG3 is taking carries away from Morris and Wilson is not taking carries away from Lynch.

They are both basically equal in terms of Fantasy, and in real world production as well.

 

[diesbudt]

PLEASE!!

In terms of scoring in Fantasy, in standard leagues:

Marshawn Lynch is ranked #6 with 160.7 pts in 13 weeks
Alfred Morris is ranked #10 with 146.8 pts in 13 weeks.

Thats a difference of 13.9 pts or about 10 yards a game. Alfred Morris is every bit of the back Lynch is (at least in that system), the difference is that RG3 is taking carries away from Morris and Wilson is not taking carries away from Lynch.

They are both basically equal in terms of Fantasy, and in real world production as well.

And yet, RG3 has more passing yards, half the interceptions, almost as many TDs and 10 pts higher QB rating, EVEN with all his "running" he does.

So... how is Russel wilson better?

RG3: 17 tds, 4 int, 2,660 yards, rate = 104.4
Wilson: 19 tds, 8 int, 2,344, 95.2

So even with Alfred morris getting the ball a lot, and RG3 running [taking snaps away from passing and running, and half them are scrambles], he STILL out performs Wilson stat wise.

He is keeping a bad redskins defense, (look at all the high scoring games, vs the low scoring seattle games), and an average Oline, and maybe a decent running back in the playoff and division hunt.

Please have real evidence at why you believe wilson is better than just saying "he is", because I just provided you with the stats, and the fact RG3 is on a worse team and carrying them 1 game from leading the (lol NFC east divison).

Good news for you though. Peyton has surpassed brady in QB rating.

Top 5 is now:
(tds/int/yards rating)

1. Aaron Rodgers: 29 - 8 - 3,124 - 105.0
2. Peyton Manning: 29 - 9 - 3,502 - 104.6
3. Robert Griffin III: 17 - 4 - 2,660 - 104.4
4. Alex Smith: 13 - 5 - 1,731 - 104.1
5. Tom Brady: 25 - 4 - 3,537 - 102.6

And anyone who uses 'record" as a indicator of QB strength. Realize that if the refs called the play correctly on the GB - SEA game. Seattle would be 6-6. Redskins are currently 6-6. Food for thought.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I just don't know what's going on in Indy. That team is horrible outside of Luck.

That's what it all boils down to. Of Indy, Washington, and Seattle, the Colts are (by far) the worst team. Luck has to carry the team on his shoulders and singlehandedly win games. RG3 and Wilson don't and the games I've seen RG3 play, the offense is fairly conservative to say the least and he has a great running game to support him. Luck doesn't have that. At midseason, Luck's offensive line was playing OK but has basically collapsed at this point and that last 3 or 4 games has seen him under constant pressure. At least he plays well under pressure, as his 42 yard TD pass with a Lion hitting him shows.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I live in Indy.

I am not a colts fan. never liked them.

Luck is cool, and I thik he has a smart head on his shoulder, and great supporting players on the team.

Doesn't mean I like them though.

You live in Indy and don't like the Colts. Tsk, tsk.

 

[diesbudt]

You live in Indy and don't like the Colts. Tsk, tsk.

I am from wisconsin (Hope THAT is obvious) Green bay packers is a religion. Trust me on this.

And I moved to Cincinnati at age 6 and have been there until this year (age 25).

So plenty of reasons to NOT like the colts. (I have been to 2 colts games. WHen they have played Green bay in Indy. Green bay lost both games. I will never forgive them)*

*1 of those was Peyton mannings rookie season... colts just ended a 3-13 season. Packers just won the super bowl (96). And were steamrolling teams.... and they lost to the colts -_-

And 1 other thing. I have been to a few bengal games (1 of them was against Green bay too) All these games were with Brett Favre at the helm, and it was funny. Both being away games when the Green bay packers took the field. All you heard were "booooooo". Yet when they announced #4 Brett Favre, EVERYONE cheered. Even opposing fans.

 

[diesbudt]

That's what it all boils down to. Of Indy, Washington, and Seattle, the Colts are (by far) the worst team. Luck has to carry the team on his shoulders and singlehandedly win games. RG3 and Wilson don't and the games I've seen RG3 play, the offense is fairly conservative to say the least and he has a great running game to support him. Luck doesn't have that. At midseason, Luck's offensive line was playing OK but has basically collapsed at this point and that last 3 or 4 games has seen him under constant pressure. At least he plays well under pressure, as his 42 yard TD pass with a Lion hitting him shows.

Yea it sucks his stats don't show how good he really is. 17 tds with 16 INT and a passer rating of like mid 70s? [76.1]

 

[Jeffg010]

That's what it all boils down to. Of Indy, Washington, and Seattle, the Colts are (by far) the worst team. Luck has to carry the team on his shoulders and singlehandedly win games. RG3 and Wilson don't and the games I've seen RG3 play, the offense is fairly conservative to say the least and he has a great running game to support him. Luck doesn't have that. At midseason, Luck's offensive line was playing OK but has basically collapsed at this point and that last 3 or 4 games has seen him under constant pressure. At least he plays well under pressure, as his 42 yard TD pass with a Lion hitting him shows.

I'm calling you out on your BS.

Let look at facts. Washington's D is ranked 29th Indy is 21. but some how the Colts are (by far) the worst team.

 

[AMDZen]

I know this must be a weird concept for you but I actually have eyes and actually watch football, I don't go by just what the numbers say because numbers can lie. You can throw all the stats out you want, when I watch Wilson play I see a winner.

I made the same argument with Tebow, yea his completion percentage wasn't good but he won the game.

The Redskins defense has been just as responsible for the last couple wins as the Seahawks defense was in their last few wins. The Skins D stepped it up for those division games, we'll see if that continues but holding Eli to 16 pts and all of those field goals rather then touchdowns was all their defense.

You can argue that Wilsons team is better and thats why they have more wins, and thats probably true but its not so much better as to make it seem like its significant. By the end of the season, Luck and Wilson will be on winning teams, most likely playoff teams. RG3 will not be.

 

[AMDZen]

And anyone who uses 'record" as a indicator of QB strength. Realize that if the refs called the play correctly on the GB - SEA game. Seattle would be 6-6. Redskins are currently 6-6. Food for thought.

Seriously? What ifs now? And if Lawerence Tynes didn't miss a chip shot they would have beat Skins and they would be 5-7. And thats just the last game, I'm sure there are a million what if scenerios. I don't play what ifs.

You don't seem to get it, but I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that I'm right. I couldn't care less if you agree with me on Wilson and disagree with me on RG3. I'm not trying to win an argument. I just laid out my opinion.

The fact is neither of us can know how good WIlson and RG3, and Luck too - are going to be. We are making educated guesses based on all the football we've watched over the years and what we see in the individuals and what they might become. Even the best in the business make mistakes consistently and there are always surprises, even to the most knowledgeable people, on who will come out to be great and who isn't.

So we'll both say that one is better based on our theoretical knowledge of the game, and we'll argue about it - but the fact is we need to wait 2-3, maybe even 4-5 years before we know. So lets pick this back up in a few years and see.