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Official 2011 Fantasy Football Discussion Thread
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slayer202
Lifer
I don't care either, I have no stake in it, so I'm not sure why you're saying "you're full of shit"
I'm at work so fantasy sites are blocked, but I'm guessing thr projected numbers on most sites would show the upgrade/downgrade at wr/rb would be fairly close. and foster may not play this week. I don't see why you guys think this is such a bad deal. Foster is obvious the best player in the deal, but Wallace is a legit #1 and hightower is definitely more valuable than manningham. and with the needs of team 2 I don't think it's a bad deal
I'm at work so fantasy sites are blocked, but I'm guessing thr projected numbers on most sites would show the upgrade/downgrade at wr/rb would be fairly close. and foster may not play this week. I don't see why you guys think this is such a bad deal. Foster is obvious the best player in the deal, but Wallace is a legit #1 and hightower is definitely more valuable than manningham. and with the needs of team 2 I don't think it's a bad deal
AMDZen
Lifer
Honestly - I figured you were "full of shit" because the only thing I could think was that you were either trolling (talking the guy who posted into a bad trade) just for a laugh, or were arguing that the poster needs to do it because its a "good" trade, meaning that its a steal for him.
Now that I realize you're serious that its actually "fair", I realize you're clearly just terrible at fantasy football and actually believe thats a "fair" trade. Nobody with an inkling of fantasy football know how would make that trade today given where all the players in the trade stand, today. Even a modicum of FF knowledge. Frankly a lot of the advice you've given or so called "knowledge" you've expressed in this thread (and others) has been suspect but nothing compared to this latest which I just had to call you out on.
As Kev said, "honestly that is one of the worst trades i've seen in a long time"
slayer202
Lifer
oh man I love ATOT...
I guess we'll just have to see the results at the end of the season. Week 2 thru 16 for mike wallace + hightower or bush vs. foster + manningham
If you don't like the trade for team 2, fine, but being so against it basically says all the stuff you just said about me, except towards you.
you're pulling a Sunny and getting aggressive because we disagree on the trade. I posted why I thought it's an agreeable deal and you've said nothing of value.
one of the worst trades you've ever seen? really? no one seemed to have a problem with the guy offer cam newton for mojo...you guys are wacked out of your minds lol
I guess we'll just have to see the results at the end of the season. Week 2 thru 16 for mike wallace + hightower or bush vs. foster + manningham
If you don't like the trade for team 2, fine, but being so against it basically says all the stuff you just said about me, except towards you.
you're pulling a Sunny and getting aggressive because we disagree on the trade. I posted why I thought it's an agreeable deal and you've said nothing of value.
one of the worst trades you've ever seen? really? no one seemed to have a problem with the guy offer cam newton for mojo...you guys are wacked out of your minds lol
AMDZen
Lifer
As you should.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
It's a terrible trade, not only because of the sum of the projected point totals, but also because Foster is clearly the best player in that deal. It's not just enough to say that the trade is even because their cumulative points are equal.
One elite player is worth more than just 2 pretty good players, because one elite player gets you massive point production with one slot.
Now a fair trade might be CJ + Hightower for Foster.
On the other hand, why is Team 2 so shitty?
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If you had Foster, and were trading to a team with Calvin, Fitz, and Wallace, is Wallace the one you'd target?
EDIT: Team 2 is sh*tty because they don't know what they are doing and listen to Team 1. Team 1 is Team 2's son. They are Steelers fan, hence why they now have Mike Wallace, IMO.
EDITx2: THey now have 6 Steelers on their roster. Bye week? LOL, the Steelers bye week is against Team 1.
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AMDZen
Lifer
I don't even need to explain why its a dimwitted, one-sided, disaster of a trade because its obvious to everyone else - and anything I would say you would clearly ignore any way.
Having to explain why that trade is bad would be like having to explain to a 15 yo kid why you don't touch the stove when its on. If he hasn't learned it already, fuck him - he can learn it the hard way.
slayer202
Lifer
call me crazy but i'll stand by it. I think team 1 gets the better end but I do think it improves team 2 as well.
and feel free to call me out on any "questionable" suggestions I've given in the thread. I think I've been reliable so far. I'd feel comfortable going up against what we've both suggested so far. and I look forward to seeing how this trade works out in the end
and feel free to call me out on any "questionable" suggestions I've given in the thread. I think I've been reliable so far. I'd feel comfortable going up against what we've both suggested so far. and I look forward to seeing how this trade works out in the end
well the thought of that was so ridiculous that i didn't even bother hitting reply, I figured it was pretty obvious. But to explain why the foster trade is SO terrible:
Manningham and Hightower are throwaways in this trade. They are about equal in value.
Foster is at the very least 2 tiers above Wallace. Probably 3 tiers. His ADP is about 2 whereas Wallace's is about 27. The season just started one week ago, why would you trade your #2 overall after one week with a bad hammy?
And it doesn't matter if the team with foster needs to "even out his positional strength" or whatever reasoning you're using. Just because he needs to slightly upgrade one position doesn't mean he should sabotage his other position. And if he really was hell bent on trading for a WR, he should ask for Calvin Johnson, not Mike Wallace. And even then it would still be uneven!!
If foster gets traded to the team with Fitz and Johnson, everyone else in the league can pretty much kiss their season goodbye.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
There's a difference - the person with the Cam Newton trade was basically asking if it was okay to screw over the other person who is obviously over a proverbial barrel with their QB situation.
LOL... Hightower is a feature back, Manningham has Eli Manning throwing the ball (at who, exactly? or more accurately (pun intended) at WHAT.)
Dare I say it and get ripped up and down... but one should really point out that the Texans go through running backs like one does the Charmin after a fine dining event at Taco Bell.
I wouldn't remotely be surprised is Foster sits out this week, Tate rips off yet another 100+ yard & TD game, and starts the rest of the season. Just ask Steve Slaton exactly how the running back position in Houston work. He'll be more than happy to tell you (that it DOESN'T).
IAteYourMother
Lifer
SunnyD - that's because Steve Slaton sucked. Houston tried to feature him and just couldn't after he kept fumbling and failing to gain any significant yardage.
Foster was obviously featured in Houston's offense last year, and given his prodigious success, I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that. Just because Tate/Ward succeeded against Indy, which probably has the worst defense to combat such a running attack, doesn't mean they'll have that same level of success against better defenses in the same way Foster could/will.
I love that in the same post, you use Hightower as an example of a feature back, yet he plays in Shanahan's offense, which was absolutely notorious in Denver for just throwing in runningbacks in the same way you indict Houston/Foster. Calling Hightower a feature back is like calling Reggie Bush or Knowshon Moreno feature backs. Sure they'll get a good number of touches and have value, but they're not going to offer tremendous value either.
Foster was obviously featured in Houston's offense last year, and given his prodigious success, I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that. Just because Tate/Ward succeeded against Indy, which probably has the worst defense to combat such a running attack, doesn't mean they'll have that same level of success against better defenses in the same way Foster could/will.
I love that in the same post, you use Hightower as an example of a feature back, yet he plays in Shanahan's offense, which was absolutely notorious in Denver for just throwing in runningbacks in the same way you indict Houston/Foster. Calling Hightower a feature back is like calling Reggie Bush or Knowshon Moreno feature backs. Sure they'll get a good number of touches and have value, but they're not going to offer tremendous value either.
You can call hightower a "feature back" all you want. You can also call Marshawn Lynch a "feature back." That doesn't mean they're going to be good. Do you remember how much of a disaster the redskins RB situation was last year?
And comparing steve slaton to arian foster... holy fuck I don't think I can read this thread anymore.
And comparing steve slaton to arian foster... holy fuck I don't think I can read this thread anymore.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
My point exactly - Slaton was the TOP fantasy sleeper RB from 2008. 2009 he was a must-have draft pick. What'd he do? Put the ball on the ground, repeatedly, get benched, and then the Texans played the RB merry-go-round for the rest of the season, then Foster emerged. 2010 was Foster's year as a starter and he did well, just like Slaton did in 2008. Like I said... don't be too terribly shocked if Foster sucks it up somehow and Tate becomes the starter sometime during the season. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying don't be shocked if it does. Houston's running backs have never been consistent, there's no reason to think they'll start now.
Now, on to Hightower... who's the 'Skin's offensive coordinator? Kyle Shanahan, right? Who was Houston's OC in '08-'09? That's right... Kyle Shanahan. There's no reason to think Hightower WON'T be used similarly to the way Houston played their running backs when Kyle was with the Texans.
But yes, in terms of raw numbers rather than hypotheticals, Arian Foster is the better back at this point in time. Then again, going into the 2009 season, Slaton was the better back too, and we all see where that got him. And that, my friend, is why I love the game.
Why the hell do you have such a hard time with this? Here. Let me help...
Steve Slaton:
2008 -
Rushing: 268 att, 1282 yds, 9 Rushing TDs
Receiving: 50 rec, 377 yds, 1 Receiving TD
Those don't exactly scream to me "Hey, this running back sucks!"
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slayer202
Lifer
http://forums.rotoworld.com/index.php?showtopic=244087
might get torn apart like you say, but I posted some other deals I thought were bad, so I'll take the abuse 😀
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
Sorry, I went back and reread what you wrote. I should clarify - Hightower is a feature back in DC because, well, they have NO other running back they're currently using to split carries/touches with (other than light relief work for Helu I think). I'm not saying Hightower is going to put up 1500 yards and 15 TDs, but what I am saying is he's not a "throwaway" back compared to players like Lynch or other RB-by-committee teams.
What I quoted up there is exactly what I'm trying to say with Foster. He had ONE good year, looks good on paper. So did Slaton, but the next year Slaton kept coughing it up. Not saying it WILL happen, but the Texans have notoriously had bad luck with running backs on back-to-back years. That's ALL I'm trying to say here.
Apologies again, as I didn't fully absorb what you were trying to say.
crownjules
Diamond Member
Just got offered this trade -
Give - Mike Wallace, Brandon Jacobs
Get - Fred Jackson, Roy Williams
The rest of my team (non PPR btw) -
RB: MJD, Ryan Mathews, BJGE, Derrick Ward
WR: Greg Jennings, Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward, Jabbar Gaffney
His team -
RB: Rice, Mendenhall, Beanie Wells, Daniel Thomas, Toby Gerhart
WR: Jordy Nelson, Steve Smith (Car), Marques Colston
So he's obviously hurting for WRs right now since Colston is hurt. Jackson might be a slight upgrade over BJGE for a flex position or reliever during a bye week, but I can't see more than that. IMHO, not worth giving up Wallace for it. I'm thinking of countering with the same deal but trying for Beanie Wells. Thoughts?
Give - Mike Wallace, Brandon Jacobs
Get - Fred Jackson, Roy Williams
The rest of my team (non PPR btw) -
RB: MJD, Ryan Mathews, BJGE, Derrick Ward
WR: Greg Jennings, Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward, Jabbar Gaffney
His team -
RB: Rice, Mendenhall, Beanie Wells, Daniel Thomas, Toby Gerhart
WR: Jordy Nelson, Steve Smith (Car), Marques Colston
So he's obviously hurting for WRs right now since Colston is hurt. Jackson might be a slight upgrade over BJGE for a flex position or reliever during a bye week, but I can't see more than that. IMHO, not worth giving up Wallace for it. I'm thinking of countering with the same deal but trying for Beanie Wells. Thoughts?
AMDZen
Lifer
Only one guy responded, but he summed it up well.
Its not quite a fair trade, I wouldn't do it - not even with Beanie Wells. But with Chris it could be considered "fair"
IAteYourMother
Lifer
Sure, Foster might suck it up... but he had a much better year than Slaton did (which is incredible since Slaton was great for a year).
I'm not sure of this notorious running back luck for good years in back to back years for the Texans. Have the Texans even been around long enough or had enough good years from runningbacks to even determine this? Perhaps inconsistent RB production might be a product of scheme/team/coaching, but a fumbling problem isn't something that I think can translate from year to year to a specific team, because without ambiguity no team ever wants to fumble.
Basically what I'm saying is that your fear for Foster, while has merit that he's a one year wonder and lacks consistency, shouldn't be any different than fear for any other player. Why is Mike Wallace ok in your book? He too, only had one good year as well, and there hasn't been exactly sparkling consistency from Pittsburgh wideouts with the exception of Hines Ward.
No way I make a terrible trade based on some feeling that the Texans have bad luck based on just one instance in their short team history (Slaton).
BTW: Lynch is a feature back in that Seahawks offense. I watched their game, they're going to go to him alot.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
You're giving up the best player in the deal (by far) Try get Beanie and Fred Jackson, they both look like they might be productive, which could be worth it for you.
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