OFFICIAL 2006 World Series: Tigers Vs. Cardinals

[drum]

Originally posted by: drum
AL Central.
that is all.

QFT

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
The Cardinals can't hit left-handed starters, dirt or no dirt, pine tar or no pine tar. If it comes to a game 6, I think you'll see Rogers coming out showing everyone squeaky-clean hands, and still break the single post season record for consecutive scoreless innings.

Time for the Cubbies to load up on lefties. Come on down, Zito!

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: cubby1223
The Cardinals can't hit left-handed starters, dirt or no dirt, pine tar or no pine tar. If it comes to a game 6, I think you'll see Rogers coming out showing everyone squeaky-clean hands, and still break the single post season record for consecutive scoreless innings.

Time for the Cubbies to load up on lefties. Come on down, Zito!

The Cubs tried to do just that in August when they brought Walrond up to the majors, but unfortunately the Cub defense went to lunch that day. Not a pretty sight. Actually, Weaver was pitching that day, and he was pretty lousy too. But not as lousy as the Cub defense.

 

[latino666]

I think that week of rest rust is gone for the Tigers. Time to pwn

LET'S GO TIGERS

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Tanner
so detroits pitcher definately had something yellow on his hand...

:roll:

Looked like maybe a dirt & grass stain to me. Whatever. But certainly don't need to give the Cardinals another thing to cry over. We all know LaRussa is going to be on this non-stop if they lose this game. I don't think they've yet gotten over all the teams "stealing their signs" from cameras in the scoreboard... and doesn't help that the tv announcers both have major ties to the Cardinals organization - they don't want to let up on the subject.

Whatever it was, it was washed off after the 1st inning, and he's still blanking the Cards.

Alright, I missed most of the game because of work, and now I just saw this now on sportcenter.

Some random thoughts on the subject of Kenny Roger's "clump of dirt":

I don't get it. He has had that same "clump of dirt" on his hand throughout the playoffs, and no one else called him out on it, or the Cardinals weren't looking for it when he first came out? This part does not make sense to me.. maybe they just went to the tape after it was brought to light in this game. (After reading the article linked below, that is what happened)

I'm sorry, but the same suspiciously yellow "clump of dirt" on the exact same place on your pitching hand in two separate playoff games?!? Give me a break. You can't tell me you believe that. No pitcher would ever, much less twice, fall on the ground, get some dirt and grass on his hand, and not immediately get up and dust off his hands.

The rule clearly states that any foreign substance on the person of the pitcher is grounds for immediate ejection and a 10 game suspension. You don't just tell him to go wash it off.

For the record, neither the Cardinals or Tony LaRussa cried or otherwise said anything bad about Rogers.

Has anyone here ever had pine tar on their hands? I have, and I gotta say, that sh!t is hard to get off. And even when you do, it leaves a yellowish stain on your hand for a while, and it will even stay sticky after you've cleaned most of it off. Try it yourself.

Rogers said in his postgame interview that no umpire ever said anything to him about the stuff on his hand. Later, the umpire supervisor said that the home plate umpire did in fact talk to Rogers, asking him "to remove the "dirt" so that there wouldn't be any controversy." Oops. Caught in a lie.

I know, he pitched an incredible game. You can't argue with that, but the rules are the rules, and it seems clear enough to me that Rogers should have been ejected from this game in the first inning, but he wasn't, and that sucks a$$.

Well, as they say, cheaters never win. I'm sure hoping that's true for the long run, because it certainly wasn't here tonight.

Cubby- give me a break about the announcers. Those were some seriously sketchy circumstances. SportsCenter has never favored the Cardinals at all, and they have talked at length about this. This is not just "Cardinal propaganda".

I'd like to hear other people's thought on the subject.. other than Cubby.

linky

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: drum

Originally posted by: drum
AL Central.
that is all.

QFT

did you really just quote yourself for truth?

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Cuhulainn

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Tanner
so detroits pitcher definately had something yellow on his hand...

:roll:

Looked like maybe a dirt & grass stain to me. Whatever. But certainly don't need to give the Cardinals another thing to cry over. We all know LaRussa is going to be on this non-stop if they lose this game. I don't think they've yet gotten over all the teams "stealing their signs" from cameras in the scoreboard... and doesn't help that the tv announcers both have major ties to the Cardinals organization - they don't want to let up on the subject.

Whatever it was, it was washed off after the 1st inning, and he's still blanking the Cards.

Alright, I missed most of the game because of work, and now I just saw this now on sportcenter.

Some random thoughts on the subject of Kenny Roger's "clump of dirt":

I don't get it. He has had that same "clump of dirt" on his hand throughout the playoffs, and no one else called him out on it, or the Cardinals weren't looking for it when he first came out? This part does not make sense to me.. maybe they just went to the tape after it was brought to light in this game. (After reading the article linked below, that is what happened)

I'm sorry, but the same suspiciously yellow "clump of dirt" on the exact same place on your pitching hand in two separate playoff games?!? Give me a break. You can't tell me you believe that. No pitcher would ever, much less twice, fall on the ground, get some dirt and grass on his hand, and not immediately get up and dust off his hands.

The rule clearly states that any foreign substance on the person of the pitcher is grounds for immediate ejection and a 10 game suspension. You don't just tell him to go wash it off.

For the record, neither the Cardinals or Tony LaRussa cried or otherwise said anything bad about Rogers.

Has anyone here ever had pine tar on their hands? I have, and I gotta say, that sh!t is hard to get off. And even when you do, it leaves a yellowish stain on your hand for a while, and it will even stay sticky after you've cleaned most of it off. Try it yourself.

Rogers said in his postgame interview that no umpire ever said anything to him about the stuff on his hand. Later, the umpire supervisor said that the home plate umpire did in fact talk to Rogers, asking him "to remove the "dirt" so that there wouldn't be any controversy." Oops. Caught in a lie.

I know, he pitched an incredible game. You can't argue with that, but the rules are the rules, and it seems clear enough to me that Rogers should have been ejected from this game in the first inning, but he wasn't, and that sucks a$$.

Well, as they say, cheaters never win. I'm sure hoping that's true for the long run, because it certainly wasn't here tonight.

Cubby- give me a break about the announcers. Those were some seriously sketchy circumstances. SportsCenter has never favored the Cardinals at all, and they have talked at length about this. This is not just "Cardinal propaganda".

I'd like to hear other people's thought on the subject.. other than Cubby.

linky

One thing. Rule says any intentional use of a foreign substance. So whether the stories doesnt matter if they cannot prove intent. Again whether it was there in the past or not, they have to prove intention. Pine tar or whatever it was.

Call me a fanboi or whatever, cuz I know I am, I've lived in Detroit area my whole life. My point is tho that once the substance was off, he still pitched an amazing game.

 

[mpitts]

Originally posted by: Cuhulainn

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Tanner
so detroits pitcher definately had something yellow on his hand...

:roll:

Looked like maybe a dirt & grass stain to me. Whatever. But certainly don't need to give the Cardinals another thing to cry over. We all know LaRussa is going to be on this non-stop if they lose this game. I don't think they've yet gotten over all the teams "stealing their signs" from cameras in the scoreboard... and doesn't help that the tv announcers both have major ties to the Cardinals organization - they don't want to let up on the subject.

Whatever it was, it was washed off after the 1st inning, and he's still blanking the Cards.

Alright, I missed most of the game because of work, and now I just saw this now on sportcenter.

Some random thoughts on the subject of Kenny Roger's "clump of dirt":

I don't get it. He has had that same "clump of dirt" on his hand throughout the playoffs, and no one else called him out on it, or the Cardinals weren't looking for it when he first came out? This part does not make sense to me.. maybe they just went to the tape after it was brought to light in this game. (After reading the article linked below, that is what happened)

I'm sorry, but the same suspiciously yellow "clump of dirt" on the exact same place on your pitching hand in two separate playoff games?!? Give me a break. You can't tell me you believe that. No pitcher would ever, much less twice, fall on the ground, get some dirt and grass on his hand, and not immediately get up and dust off his hands.

The rule clearly states that any foreign substance on the person of the pitcher is grounds for immediate ejection and a 10 game suspension. You don't just tell him to go wash it off.

For the record, neither the Cardinals or Tony LaRussa cried or otherwise said anything bad about Rogers.

Has anyone here ever had pine tar on their hands? I have, and I gotta say, that sh!t is hard to get off. And even when you do, it leaves a yellowish stain on your hand for a while, and it will even stay sticky after you've cleaned most of it off. Try it yourself.

Rogers said in his postgame interview that no umpire ever said anything to him about the stuff on his hand. Later, the umpire supervisor said that the home plate umpire did in fact talk to Rogers, asking him "to remove the "dirt" so that there wouldn't be any controversy." Oops. Caught in a lie.

I know, he pitched an incredible game. You can't argue with that, but the rules are the rules, and it seems clear enough to me that Rogers should have been ejected from this game in the first inning, but he wasn't, and that sucks a$$.

Well, as they say, cheaters never win. I'm sure hoping that's true for the long run, because it certainly wasn't here tonight.

Cubby- give me a break about the announcers. Those were some seriously sketchy circumstances. SportsCenter has never favored the Cardinals at all, and they have talked at length about this. This is not just "Cardinal propaganda".

I'd like to hear other people's thought on the subject.. other than Cubby.

linky

I think Kenny Rogers was no more or less effective in the game after whatever was on his hand was washed off. The Cardinals were able to manage ONE hit off of him after the first inning, when he washed his hands.

So whatever it was wasn't giving him an unfair advantage. If it was defacing the ball or was as serious as ESPN is trying to make it, then the Yankees, A's or umpires in the ALDS/ALCS would have said something.

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

One thing. Rule says any intentional use of a foreign substance. So whether the stories doesnt matter if they cannot prove intent. Again whether it was there in the past or not, they have to prove intention. Pine tar or whatever it was.

Call me a fanboi or whatever, cuz I know I am, I've lived in Detroit area my whole life. My point is tho that once the substance was off, he still pitched an amazing game.

Wrong:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.
(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

Nothing about intention there. The intentional part is about marking the ball. Check it.

And my point is that a foreign substance was brought to the attention of the umpires, who should have inspected it and tossed him. No official complaint needs to be made.

 

[mpitts]

Originally posted by: Cuhulainn

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

One thing. Rule says any intentional use of a foreign substance. So whether the stories doesnt matter if they cannot prove intent. Again whether it was there in the past or not, they have to prove intention. Pine tar or whatever it was.

Call me a fanboi or whatever, cuz I know I am, I've lived in Detroit area my whole life. My point is tho that once the substance was off, he still pitched an amazing game.

Wrong:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.
(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

Nothing about intention there. The intentional part is about marking the ball. Check it.

And my point is that a foreign substance was brought to the attention of the umpires, who should have inspected it and tossed him. No official complaint needs to be made.

I don't know what the exact sequence of events was, but I agree that the umpires should have inspected his hands if they felt it was suspicious.

They didn't. The end.

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: mpitts

Originally posted by: Cuhulainn

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

One thing. Rule says any intentional use of a foreign substance. So whether the stories doesnt matter if they cannot prove intent. Again whether it was there in the past or not, they have to prove intention. Pine tar or whatever it was.

Call me a fanboi or whatever, cuz I know I am, I've lived in Detroit area my whole life. My point is tho that once the substance was off, he still pitched an amazing game.

Wrong:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.
(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

Nothing about intention there. The intentional part is about marking the ball. Check it.

And my point is that a foreign substance was brought to the attention of the umpires, who should have inspected it and tossed him. No official complaint needs to be made.

I don't know what the exact sequence of events was, but I agree that the umpires should have inspected his hands if they felt it was suspicious.

They didn't. The end.

Yeah, I know, thanks. I'm not trying to put the game on appeal or anything, it was a loss and that ain't gonna change. It's just a little frustrating to be on the other side of a guy who it seems was pretty blatantly breaking the rules of the game. So here I am, venting, in honor of national caps lock day:
THIS IS SOME SERIOUS BS! THAT KENNY ROGERS SHOULD BE SHOT! ALL THAT UMPIRING CREW TOO! AND ALL YOU PEOPLE SAYING IT DIDN'T MATTER IF HE WAS BREAKING THE RULES OR NOT! ALL SHOT! WHAT THE HLL IS A GAME WITHOUT RULES?!?! ITS ANARCHY! IMPEACH BUSH! FREE TIBET! SPAY AND NEUTER YOURPETS!!!!!!!

whew.. that felt kinda good.

 

[Wingznut]

From the ESPN.com article that Cuhulainn linked...

Umpire supervisor Steve Palermo told a TV reporter that whatever Rogers had on his hand needed to be cleaned off. The supervisor said it was nothing suspicious, and both managers were alerted.

"There was no formal request made about [Rogers] being inspected," Palermo said after the game. "There was a noticeable dirt mark on his pitching hand, and after the first inning, Alfonso Marquez, the home-plate umpire, asked him to remove the dirt so there wouldn't be any question about any controversy. And I think if you see the following innings, he pitched fine without the dirt."

"Dirt is not a foreign substance. That's the playing surface. ? There was absolutely no detection that he put anything on the ball by any of the umpires. That rule regards if he deliberately put something on the ball to doctor the ball. There was an observation, and [Marquez] saw there was dirt, and he asked him to take it off."

"It was observed as dirt. [The umpires] have a pretty good idea what dirt is and what a foreign substance is."

So, both the umpire supervisor and the home plate umpire says it's no big deal... So, I think it's time to get over it.

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
From the ESPN.com article that Cuhulainn linked...

Umpire supervisor Steve Palermo told a TV reporter that whatever Rogers had on his hand needed to be cleaned off. The supervisor said it was nothing suspicious, and both managers were alerted.

"There was no formal request made about [Rogers] being inspected," Palermo said after the game. "There was a noticeable dirt mark on his pitching hand, and after the first inning, Alfonso Marquez, the home-plate umpire, asked him to remove the dirt so there wouldn't be any question about any controversy. And I think if you see the following innings, he pitched fine without the dirt."

"Dirt is not a foreign substance. That's the playing surface. ? There was absolutely no detection that he put anything on the ball by any of the umpires. That rule regards if he deliberately put something on the ball to doctor the ball. There was an observation, and [Marquez] saw there was dirt, and he asked him to take it off."

"It was observed as dirt. [The umpires] have a pretty good idea what dirt is and what a foreign substance is."

So, both the umpire supervisor and the home plate umpire says it's no big deal... So, I think it's time to get over it.

Yeah, man, I read the article, thanks. The fact that they are acting like it's no big deal is part of what pissed me off in the first place. Their job is to enforce the rules. I don't feel they did that. Did you even read my posts?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Cuhulainn

Originally posted by: Wingznut
From the ESPN.com article that Cuhulainn linked...

Umpire supervisor Steve Palermo told a TV reporter that whatever Rogers had on his hand needed to be cleaned off. The supervisor said it was nothing suspicious, and both managers were alerted.

"There was no formal request made about [Rogers] being inspected," Palermo said after the game. "There was a noticeable dirt mark on his pitching hand, and after the first inning, Alfonso Marquez, the home-plate umpire, asked him to remove the dirt so there wouldn't be any question about any controversy. And I think if you see the following innings, he pitched fine without the dirt."

"Dirt is not a foreign substance. That's the playing surface. ? There was absolutely no detection that he put anything on the ball by any of the umpires. That rule regards if he deliberately put something on the ball to doctor the ball. There was an observation, and [Marquez] saw there was dirt, and he asked him to take it off."

"It was observed as dirt. [The umpires] have a pretty good idea what dirt is and what a foreign substance is."

So, both the umpire supervisor and the home plate umpire says it's no big deal... So, I think it's time to get over it.

Yeah, man, I read the article, thanks. The fact that they are acting like it's no big deal is part of what pissed me off in the first place. Their job is to enforce the rules. I don't feel they did that. Did you even read my posts?

Yeah... They said there was no foreign substance on his hand. And no evidence that he put anything on the ball to doctor it.

 

[Cuhulainn]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Yeah... They said there was no foreign substance on his hand. And no evidence that he put anything on the ball to doctor it.

This is like talking to a wall. Did you even watch the game? They never looked at his hand! Not one umpire, not once. And there is evidence contrary to what the umpires are saying. This is my problem with the situation. If you try to tell me what they said again, you may want to take a good, hard look at this site: click me.

 

[dbk]

I'm leaning towards Rogers cheating. Since when did Kenny Rogers become this good? His post season record before this year was god awful.

 

[ThaPerculator]

Originally posted by: ornament
I'm leaning towards Rogers cheating. Since when did Kenny Rogers become this good? His post season record before this year was god awful.

and his RECORD during THIS YEAR was amazing... It would have been even better barring a few meltdowns.

 

[iamme]

Originally posted by: ThaPerculator

Originally posted by: ornament
I'm leaning towards Rogers cheating. Since when did Kenny Rogers become this good? His post season record before this year was god awful.

and his RECORD during THIS YEAR was amazing... It would have been even better barring a few meltdowns.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=121386

 

[cubby1223]

I'm actually impressed the way LaRussa is handling the issue. History would suggest otherwise, but I think when it's the World Series at stake, LaRussa's gotta know that you can't go into the next set of games feeling like you were cheated. Last year the Angels were cheated out of some games against the White Sox due to the umps blowing some crucial calls, and afterwards the Angels just had no hope, no spark, they were done for.

Either way the Rogers situation ends up, it's always a shame when the umps become the focus of such an big sports game. They are the ones who need to be scrutinized first.

 

[Squisher]

OK, I just got off the phone with Kenny Roger's manicurist and she said that he told her he smears a Hershey bar into the palm of his hand to distract people from where he is really getting the pine tar from.

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: Baked
Joe Buck clearly doesn't want Tigers to win the WS.

Jack Buck was one of Saint Louis's most prominent citizens ever. Joe Buck isn't quite as big but he's still a huge Saint Louis name. He's a Cards fan.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Well I personally think there is more to this issue than meets the eye. That part of your hand does touch the ball in a Circle Change, but it also touches when a pitcher rubs a new ball up.

I admire LaRussa trying to keep the Cards focused, but he has to put his feelings aside for his best friend, Jim Leyland. Any other manager LaRussa would have been out on the field inspecting it himself. He is handling the aftermath well, but he didn't handle the incident well, neither did the umpires.

Just because you cant see it doesn't mean that its effects aren't still lingering. Take syrup for example. You get some on your hand at breakfast or something, run it under water and when you are done sometimes it is still pretty sticky.
_________

At any rate I guess we will see what happens in (if needed) Kenny Roger's next start. Tonight will be a good game. Inaugural season at Busch and we already have a World Series going on there. Not only that Carpenter is on the mound....its going to be an incredible game for both teams

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: Baked
Joe Buck clearly doesn't want Tigers to win the WS.

Jack Buck was one of Saint Louis's most prominent citizens ever. Joe Buck isn't quite as big but he's still a huge Saint Louis name. He's a Cards fan.

Jack Buck was probably one of the greatest baseball announcers to ever live. Joe Buck is very good as well. Yes, I'm sure he wants St. Louis to win, but he seems to be commentating a very fair game right now (Aside from a hint of disappointment after the Tigers score).

-Kevin (Gosh I wish I had the opportunity to listen to a Jack Buck called game; just hearing "Go crazy folks, go crazy" is something special)

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: Baked
Joe Buck clearly doesn't want Tigers to win the WS.

Jack Buck was one of Saint Louis's most prominent citizens ever. Joe Buck isn't quite as big but he's still a huge Saint Louis name. He's a Cards fan.

Jack Buck was probably one of the greatest baseball announcers to ever live. Joe Buck is very good as well. Yes, I'm sure he wants St. Louis to win, but he seems to be commentating a very fair game right now (Aside from a hint of disappointment after the Tigers score).

-Kevin (Gosh I wish I had the opportunity to listen to a Jack Buck called game; just hearing "Go crazy folks, go crazy" is something special)

I'm not saying it's a bad thing - I'm from Saint Louis and I love the Bucks - Jack gave a talk at my highschool, and my mother's photography business shot his wedding. I think he's great, and a good announcer.

 

[FoBoT]

is that Red Dawn singing the National Anthem?