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Officer shoots nine people with one shot!

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rudeguy said:
Glocks have 3 safeties. None of them are external. The gun *cannot* go bang without pulling the trigger.

Also, even if it was a 19 which is 9mm, you are going to feel the recoil. The slide still has to move. There is going to be fire coming out of the end of the barrel. Between my pants being on fire, the intense heat on my leg, the ringing in my ears and chunk of flesh ripped off by the slide, I would know my gun went off.

Also, the report says some of the "victims" only felt heat. Unless the guy was using frangible ammo, I just don't see how the ricochet could hit 9 people.
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Like was mentioned before, it could have been pieces of the table that actually hit some of the people which I guess makes sense. I've been to an indoor range with steel targets and there's a lot of jacketing that ricochets back too, so depending on what these people are claiming as "getting hit" I could see it.
 
gorcorps said:
Like was mentioned before, it could have been pieces of the table that actually hit some of the people which I guess makes sense. I've been to an indoor range with steel targets and there's a lot of jacketing that ricochets back too, so depending on what these people are claiming as "getting hit" I could see it.
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I guess its possible. I just think its more likely that people felt something that wasn't there. Or the media is overhyping it again.
 
rudeguy said:
I guess its possible. I just think its more likely that people felt something that wasn't there. Or the media is overhyping it again.
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both are possible

Maybe 9 people got checked out, but not all 9 actually had injuries... that's just not how the media will report it though
 
Paladin3 said:
My *guess* would be that the bullet hit the metal base of the table, as it says in the article, and one or both shattered. Some combination of fragments from the table base and/or the bullet then hit nine people. It's also possible some of the people, those who had burning sensations but didn't go to the hospital, were hit by burning material from the guys pants or jacket pocket that the gun was apparently fired through. Cloth usually catches fire or is smoldering after a gun is fired like that.

Just a guess, but the reporter should have asked those questions to clarify. The way the article is written it sounds like we have a magic bullet that somehow wove it's way through nine people.

Many reporters either are too dumb to ask common sense questions like these, or write their article straight from the police report which often lacks details. Sloppy reporting, but the best and brightest aren't going into journalism these days.

EDIT: There were lots of questions any good reporter should have asked, but the first ones that comes to mind are "Why did the officer leave the scene after his gun went off?"..."Why did the officer not render aid or call for aid for the people injured when his gun went off?"..."What disciplinary action, if any, is he facing?"..."Was the gun inside a pocket holster or just loose inside the officer's pocket?"..."Does the department mandate off-duty weapons be carried in a secure holster?"...and the list goes on.
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Are you surprised? The tone of the article immediately sets the stage. After all, these are just the 'latest' to be injured by those evil guns.

Stupid cop paired with stupid reporter.
 
rudeguy said:
Glocks have 3 safeties. None of them are external. The gun *cannot* go bang without pulling the trigger.

Also, even if it was a 19 which is 9mm, you are going to feel the recoil. The slide still has to move. There is going to be fire coming out of the end of the barrel. Between my pants being on fire, the intense heat on my leg, the ringing in my ears and chunk of flesh ripped off by the slide, I would know my gun went off.

Also, the report says some of the "victims" only felt heat. Unless the guy was using frangible ammo, I just don't see how the ricochet could hit 9 people.
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Again people with this stupid argument. The gun did go off and he didn't pull the trigger. His wallet did. Or his pocket lining did. Or the keys in his pocket got in between the trigger guard. Etc. Etc.

Glocks have no real safeties. Adding a little nub on the trigger, so the same motion with out without it will actuate the gun, does not a safety make.
 
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halik said:
Again people with this stupid argument. The gun did go off and he didn't pull the trigger. His wallet did. Or his pocket lining did. Or the keys in his pocket got in between the trigger guard. Etc. Etc.

Glocks have no real safeties. Adding a little nub on the trigger, so the same motion with out without it will actuate the gun, does not a safety make.
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Semantics. It will not accidentally go off if you drop/throw it. It will if you pull the trigger. There is no "hard" safety. Too bad common sense isn't a requirement.
 
halik said:
Again people with this stupid argument. The gun did go off and he didn't pull the trigger. His wallet did. Or his pocket lining did. Or the keys in his pocket got in between the trigger guard. Etc. Etc.

Glocks have no real safeties. Adding a little nub on the trigger, so the same motion with out without it will actuate the gun, does not a safety make.
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http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

They have 3 safeties. Just because you do not know the definition of a safety does not mean they aren't there. There are no external safeties but there are 3 safeties.
 
highland145 said:
Semantics. It will not accidentally go off if you drop/throw it. It will if you pull the trigger. There is no "hard" safety. Too bad common sense isn't a requirement.
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If you drop it and it lands trigger first on a branch, it will go off.
 
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rudeguy said:
http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

They have 3 safeties. Just because you do not know the definition of a safety does not mean they aren't there. There are no external safeties but there are 3 safeties.
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Safety prevents accidental discharge. Your argument is at odds with both reality(i.e. the o/p) and the definition of what the device is supposed to do.

The Safe Action thing is just Glock trying to do marketing rebranding of a LEO service firing mechanism design. Those guns were designed to be holster carried and safetyless.
 
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halik said:
Safety prevents accidental discharge. Your argument is at odds with both reality(i.e. the o/p) and the definition of what the device is supposed to do.

The Safe Action thing is just Glock trying to do marketing rebranding of a LEO service firing mechanism design. Those guns were designed to be holster carried and safetyless.
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Not really. The Glock safeties do prevent accidental discharge when used with common sense. I have never shot myself or anyone else. I just happen to carry a Glock 19 like the one in the article.

But I would never dream of pocket carrying it. If for some odd reason I did, I would not have anything else in that pocket. Why? To prevent accidental discharge. I still don't think the story adds up. The 19 is not a small gun. You would have to have a huge pocket for it to fit in there. And if for some odd reason your pocket is big enough, how the hell can your wallet fit? AND if for some odd reason your wallet does fit, how could your wallet fit into the trigger guard?

My point here is this was operator error. Like so many cops we hear about lately, this guy is clueless when it comes to guns. I'm not saying all cops are clueless but I am saying that a large number of them act like they have some special super powers to prevent things like this. Add in the uptick in shooting innocent civilians because they perceived a non existent threat and its obvious that many police agencies need to take a look at their training.
 
rudeguy said:
Not really. The Glock safeties do prevent accidental discharge when used with common sense. I have never shot myself or anyone else. I just happen to carry a Glock 19 like the one in the article.

But I would never dream of pocket carrying it. If for some odd reason I did, I would not have anything else in that pocket. Why? To prevent accidental discharge. I still don't think the story adds up. The 19 is not a small gun. You would have to have a huge pocket for it to fit in there. And if for some odd reason your pocket is big enough, how the hell can your wallet fit? AND if for some odd reason your wallet does fit, how could your wallet fit into the trigger guard?

My point here is this was operator error. Like so many cops we hear about lately, this guy is clueless when it comes to guns. I'm not saying all cops are clueless but I am saying that a large number of them act like they have some special super powers to prevent things like this. Add in the uptick in shooting innocent civilians because they perceived a non existent threat and its obvious that many police agencies need to take a look at their training.
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I drink till I black out and then drive for 500 miles every weekend, haven't killed anyone either. Both of these are terrible arguments.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that design is intended for a very specific use case, carrying that gun in a holster on your hip. If you deviate from the use case, the risk of accidental discharge increases tremendously. Wrong grab, something in your pocket, pocket lining getting into the trigger guard etc etc and you'll end up shooting yourself and/or someone around you, like the guy in the op.

Your argument sums up to this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

My parents got rid of their 17C for the same reason above, it's just not a good gun in non-service setting.
 
It fired from inside his pocket, which muffled the sound, that's why people didn't know a gun had been fired.
 
halik said:
I drink till I black out and then drive for 500 miles every weekend, haven't killed anyone either. Both of these are terrible arguments.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that design is intended for a very specific use case, carrying that gun in a holster on your hip. If you deviate from the use case, the risk of accidental discharge increases tremendously. Wrong grab, something in your pocket, pocket lining getting into the trigger guard etc etc and you'll end up shooting yourself and/or someone around you, like the guy in the op.

Your argument sums up to this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

My parents got rid of their 17C for the same reason above, it's just not a good gun in non-service setting.
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We are saying the same thing except I am blaming the moron who didn't use the gun right and you are blaming the gun. You do not pocket carry a Glock unless its in a holster. Period. You have to protect the trigger.

I refuse to own a gun with an external safety. I want it to go from completely safe to going bang with as little action on my part as possible. That means I have to be a little more careful than someone who carries a gun with an external safety.
 
The slide does not have to move for the gun to fire, only for it to cycle.

It's pretty easy for the slide to be prevented from moving when the round goes off.
 
rudeguy said:
I refuse to own a gun with an external safety. I want it to go from completely safe to going bang with as little action on my part as possible. That means I have to be a little more careful than someone who carries a gun with an external safety.
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This. Add stress to a situation and you may not remember to take the safety off.
 
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