Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

[Steeplerot]

If the worker could do better, he would.

Well, except for the whole history of the human race and serfdom. Whoops.

Capitalism's Dirty Little Secret

 

[theeedude]

Doesn't mean they aren't under-taxed. Plus not all people at the top are there for a reason. For every google millionaire, there are ten leeches who got bonuses for selling securities that lead to collapse of banks they worked for and saddled taxpayers with the burden. There are plenty of trustfund babies who got inheritances and live off dividends adding nothing to society, but getting taxed less than people who do work hard to make it. It's about what you want to incentivize. If it's hard work, you should tax it less than other forms of income.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Were the workers compensated for their work? If so, then they already took the cut they agreed to take. If the worker could do better, he would. The person at the top is there for a reason. Why do so many members of this forum want jobs at MS or Google? Their founders started with nothing and are now among the wealthiest people in the world, yet tons of people in their respective fields still wants to work for them. Why? These horrible, greedy bastards who exploit their workers and steal all of their wealth have lines out the door to work for them. That tells me you're wrong.

"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

Do none of you 'free market' types believe in enlightened self interest? Is it so hard to see that everyone making a buck is better for the economy and quality of life than one person making all the bucks?

 

[Carmen813]

I'll dispute the spirit of the article.

It's little more than petty jealousy. Jealousy is an integral but unfortunate part of the human psyche. Many are able to supress it to mangeable levels and go on to prosper and thrive. Unfortunately, many are unable to do so and instead choose to dwell on the negatives and carry their jealousy around as a continual outrage. They work harder at being mad at the system than they would at working within it. They continually strive to remind those that succeed that they have not chosen the righteous path.

There is no guarantee of equal outcome in this world of ours. Never has been and we'll certainly never see it in our lifetimes. There are therefore two choices. Accept or rebel.

It's not about equal distribution, it's about more equitable distribution. Not the same thing.

 

[Carmen813]

Easily.

You tax people to pay for public services.

Such services include (at a local level) police, fire, roads, ect and military, border security, and other things a state cannot do at a national level.

Your comment is a logical fallacy in that you equate public services that benefit everyone to redistributing wealth.

Capitalists systems function best when wealth is constantly redistributed.

 

[CycloWizard]

Because you didn't earn the money. You got to steal it because folk much more capable than you are not given that chance. There are millions and millions of folk in this world who have nothing and have talents that would put yours to shame.

Bollocks. People from poorer families would have had an easier time affording college than I did because their need was marginally more than mine. I graduated from the only non-accredited high school in my state, so it doesn't look like it was my educational privilege at that level that got me through. I worked as a janitor, construction worker, and door-to-door vacuum salesman before finally catching a break and getting a year-round job as an engineering researcher for $14/hour while taking out massive student loans and taking enough courses to get a BS and MS in five years with a thesis. I still didn't have enough money to eat every day. I lived in a hellhole, fixed my own car, and finished a PhD in 3 years. I would say "earned" a PhD, but I'm sure there are millions and millions of people who deserve a PhD more than I do simply because they're more talented. Thus, I can only say that I bought a PhD diploma out of the back of a white van with no windows in a Target parking lot from a shady guy wearing sunglasses.

So what was it that all of these other millions of brilliant people who have more talent than me did to deserve the money I have collected through apparently unimaginably horrific means? What chance did I have that they didn't? What advantage did I have? I was born in the US as a white male, so every dollar I earn belongs to someone else? No. I'll be paying off the loans for the foreseeable future. I probably have mesothelioma from working and living in run-down old houses with asbestos. I'm not even the most talented kid in my immediate family. But I busted my ass, walked the straight and narrow, and mortgaged my future to have the opportunities I have now. I'm sorry if you feel that the guy in the jungle in Brazil who is more talented than I am has more of a claim to the money I earned than I do, but I think you can die in a fire for even suggesting it.

 

[Steeplerot]

So what was it that all of these other millions of brilliant people who have more talent than me did to deserve the money I have?

You explain why you have this entitlement mentality yourself of why you think you are more deserving then someone else of another country with more ability then you.

I was born in the US as a white male.

So you think because you actually HAD TO WORK you are privileged? We all have to work dumbass and yes, being a white male (you pointed it out!) does have many advantages in this country. If you dont realize it your either blind or an asshole. Take your pick.

No one gives a shit if you had to work and struggle, everyone does, unless you are the rich or born into money. And sorry, you were not. Welcome to the other 99%. Guess what, the 1% is not lettign you into their club no matter how much ass you kiss, your chances to get anywhere in life are millions to one. Might as well deal with it and try to make the best for yourself and your fellow people while doing your best. Dreaming of "winning the lottery" is childish. Basing your freaking ideology off such slim chances is infantile.

It's like a slave cowering to his mastah because they own the kitchen when the whole time the kitchen can be used by anyone Hell, the slaves built the house and it was funded by their labor. You are stuck on the plantation buddy.

 

[SparkyJJO]

What marketable skills do you need to have to get an inheritance? How about dividends from that inheritance?

WHO CARES?!

The parent(s)/grandparent(s)/whoever worked hard for the money/wealth/whatever. It is theirs to do with what they wish, since they earned it. And if they desire to give it to their kids as an inheritance, there is totally nothing wrong with that. The government stepping in and taking it "because well the kid didn't work for it" is pure thievery.

 

[Throckmorton]

Were the workers compensated for their work? If so, then they already took the cut they agreed to take. If the worker could do better, he would. The person at the top is there for a reason. Why do so many members of this forum want jobs at MS or Google? Their founders started with nothing and are now among the wealthiest people in the world, yet tons of people in their respective fields still wants to work for them. Why? These horrible, greedy bastards who exploit their workers and steal all of their wealth have lines out the door to work for them. That tells me you're wrong.

So it's OK if workers form a union to negotiate for a bigger piece of the take right?

 

[shira]

I'll dispute the spirit of the article.

It's little more than petty jealousy. Jealousy is an integral but unfortunate part of the human psyche. Many are able to supress it to mangeable levels and go on to prosper and thrive. Unfortunately, many are unable to do so and instead choose to dwell on the negatives and carry their jealousy around as a continual outrage. They work harder at being mad at the system than they would at working within it. They continually strive to remind those that succeed that they have not chosen the righteous path.

There is no guarantee of equal outcome in this world of ours. Never has been and we'll certainly never see it in our lifetimes. There are therefore two choices. Accept or rebel.

I think you're missing the essence of the article: At what point on the wealth-concentration curve is it legitimate to question whether the system is working?

Suppose, for example, that current wealth-concentration trends accelerate, and in 100 years 1000 Americans control 100% of the wealth and the remaining 350 million Americans are all desperately poor. Would you still claim that the system is fine?

Think about it: What's the purpose of a system of government: Is it to protect the natural advantage of the few and let the chips fall where they may for everyone else. Or is it to provide the greatest good for the greatest number? Or something in between?

 

[Steeplerot]

The government stepping in and taking it "because well the kid didn't work for it" is pure thievery.

How does who ones genetic donor privilege one into not having to produce in a society? Do you think this is a good strategy for long term since money = power? It is uncapitalistic as it undermines the system into a oligarchy. I am sure counterfeiting money would be nice too but it sucks for everyone else.

 

[nonlnear]

So it's OK if workers form a union to negotiate for a bigger piece of the take right?

Sure, but it's not okay for the union to take dues without individual consent.

 

[SparkyJJO]

How does who ones genetic donor privilege one into not having to produce in a society? Do you think this is a good strategy for long term since money = power? It is uncapitalistic as it undermines the system into a oligarchy. I am sure counterfeiting money would be nice too but it sucks for everyone else.

What kind of comparison is that? An inheritance is nothing like counterfeiting

Let's put it this way:

Person A gives person B a gift. Reason could be a a birthday, anniversary, whatever.
If person C came in and then stole the gift from person B, well, you'd condemn him on stealing the gift, wouldn't you?

Now let's change it a bit.
Person A gives the gift to person B when he dies. It is still a gift, but it is now called an inheritance.
Does the simple fact that Person A died somehow make it OK for person C to steal it from person B? I think not!

But, that's what you're suggesting is perfectly OK to do

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

WHO CARES?!

The parent(s)/grandparent(s)/whoever worked hard for the money/wealth/whatever. It is theirs to do with what they wish, since they earned it. And if they desire to give it to their kids as an inheritance, there is totally nothing wrong with that. The government stepping in and taking it "because well the kid didn't work for it" is pure thievery.

Shhhh. Don't spoil the idealistic thievery of the jealous communists in here who actually believe that wealth absolutely must be earned to be a valid acquisition.

And as nearly every communist and socialist society ever to exist has demonstrated, those in charge ultimately become the very thing they publicly profess to despise. For example, Chavez isn't a poor sob living in squalor but many of his people sure are.

All those in here who pontificate about the wealthy can bite me until they themselves are presented with a choice of being wealthy, or not, and give that wealth completely away instead. I doubt that many, if any would. Anything else is purely sour grapes.

 

[Steeplerot]

Does the simple fact that Person A died somehow make it OK for person C to steal it from person B? I think not!

That is a idiotic example for how the real world works.

How do you steal from a dead person? Or do you think once again that genetic code = entitlement?

Then why not give African Americans reparations since they are not the slaves but the descendants of the ones who earned so much money and never got their rightful wages! Hell they DOUBLE deserve it then a inheritor since their descendants worked for that money! Good idea? LETS CALL IN ALL GENETIC DEBTS! WEWT! Lets start with the richest white southern families. Some of them have some old money floating around! Its stealing, lets stop this travesty ad restore your idea of rule of law for dead folks!! Oops, the dead African slaves' descendants are owed pretty much the whole building of the USA. Dang.

Hell, for that matter the Chinese built most of the West while the whites watched. How about we inherit half the US to China for THEIR descendants who were STOLEN from.

Oh wait...then there is Native Americans too!......^_^

 

[SparkyJJO]

That is a idiotic example for how the real world works.

How do you steal from a dead person? Or do you think once again that genetic code = entitlement?

Then why not give African Americans reparations since they are not the slaves but the descendants of the ones who earned so much money and never got their rightful wages! Hell they DOUBLE deserve it then a inheritor! Good idea? Lets start with the richest white southern families. Some of them have some old money floating around! Its stealing, lets stop this travesty!!

Yeah, it went totally over your head.

You're not stealing from the dead person, you're stealing from the LIVING person. Intercepting the gift on the way to the living person is still stealing it.

And you're last paragraph is just blathering nonsense without any bearing on anything.

I should stop here and take the advice in my sig.

 

[Steeplerot]

You cannot steal from a dead person. You are just practicing genetic wealth redistribution because you think you are entitled -you evil commie nazi socialist statist! :biggrin:

 

[Throckmorton]

Red made a good point. Didn't African Americans inherit the money owed to their ancestors for their labor by slaveowners? Or is that different somehow?

 

[Steeplerot]

Red made a good point. Didn't African Americans inherit the money owed to their ancestors for their labor by slaveowners? Or is that different somehow?

I was actually using a flippant example to point out the silly bombastic statements these guys make and never get called on. I don't actually think anyone should collect on stuff 4 or so generations back. Just sayin tho. The tables of ones PC ideas of privilege go both ways. Cons seem to always think they are somehow special or picked on in life and work harder/deserve everything. Gets boring listening to their self-important bullshit.

 

[nonlnear]

Red made a good point. Didn't African Americans inherit the money owed to their ancestors for their labor by slaveowners? Or is that different somehow?

Actually Red insulted the legacy of the slaves by calling what was owed them "wages".

If there is something that should be done to ameliorate the wrongs of American slavery, personal property and inheritance law is one of the least appropriate vehicles with which to do it.

edit: Glad to see Red didn't actually mean it seriously as written.

 

[Steeplerot]

Actually Red insulted the legacy of the slaves by calling what was owed them "wages".

Well, they were "uncompensated employees" in reality. Not much different then the Irish-American coal mine worker who had to live on the factory plot and buy everything at inflated wages at company shops with 0 left over, that also is the history and reality of the USA and how it was built.

That is literally how big capitalists made their big money to be "producers" they farmed our ancestors (regardless of your color!) until they died from exhaustion while getting FILTHY RICH. We still have JP Morgan and friends still around from those days.

The fact that we have any worker rights is amazing seeing how money is so powerful in the USA like a religion.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I was actually using a flippant example to point out the silly bombastic statements these guys make and never get called on. I don't actually think anyone should collect on stuff 4 or so generations back. Just sayin tho. The tables of ones PC ideas of privilege go both ways. Cons seem to always think they are somehow special or picked on in life and work harder/deserve everything. Gets boring listening to their self-important bullshit.

lol. Do you not see the the self-important bs in that statement?

The far left that you reside in is ultimately no different from the far right. You guys both point fingers at each other but you're all so full of yourselves while thinking you're all so righteous in your own beliefs. It's not really funny but it's over-the-top comedy all at the same time. It's amazing the extremes both sides engage in.

 

[Steeplerot]

lol. Do you not see the the self-important bs in that statement?

The far left that you reside in is ultimately no different from the far right.

Except I make no supernatural claims of entitlement here. That person was. But yeah, we know. If you guys are getting creamed call false equivalence. Yawn...predictable.

Get a new bullshit hustle already.

The both sides are just as bad is really.....really old when you guys trot it out when its all you have left.

(well, I guess there is always accusing the other person of smoking weed LOL!)

One day some scientist will create a bullshit logic bubble for you conservatives to live in. Then you all can live happily ever after without all this distracting reality in your own wingnutlandia, wouldn't that be special?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Except I make no supernatural claims of entitlement here. That person was. But yeah, we know. If you guys are getting creamed call false equivalence. You guys are really predictable.

Get a new bullshit hustle the both sides are just as bad is really.....really old when you guys trot it out when its all you have left.

(well, I guess there is always accusing the other person of smoking weed LOL!)

Yeah, that's what I'd expect you'd resort to; accusing anyone of calling you on your bs of playing for the other team. However, I'm an Indepedent. I don't play for either team. Guys like me own you both because ultimately we are the deciders in this country. We determine who stays in power or leaves while you ignorant types play extreme sides.

But play on, play on. It's hilarious to watch all the baloney going on between the idiots.

 

[Steeplerot]

However, I'm an Indepedent. I don't play for either team.

Just like Foxnews huh? And people sure buy that one also! :whiste: