Occupy protests set for May 1

[Abraxas]

Sigh. Context, it is something you want to ignore, but which I am not going to let you. What is the context of my post?

Your statement that every jaywalker should be prosecuted, along with every violator of every law. I then pointed out the level of manpower and expenditure required to catch every single law violator, you backpedaled with such speed you would have thought your initial position had hepatitis. After I agreed to work with your second position, that everyone in court should be charged, I pointed out that would still require a large increase in taxpayer expenses. Now you are backpedaling a second time you adjust your position once again.

Let's go back to the beginning. Should every jaywalker be prosecuted, yes or no?

 

[monovillage]

So when you get past your gratuitous compulsion to attack anything I say, you actually agree with me, at least somewhat. It's OK for prosecutors to use discretion in prosecuting (or not) minor, non-violent, non-destructive crimes.

And no matter what you feel, I challenge you to find any of my posts where I've suggested non-violent, non-destructive protestors must be prosecuted (e.g., Tea Party protests, Westboro Baptists, even the neo-Nazis.) I'm a fallible human being to be sure, but I try to be consistent in my beliefs ... and I very much believe my .sig. Supporting the free speech rights of those you disagree with is very much part of living in a free society.

You're right Bowfinger. You are occasionally and in this case you hit and scored.

 

[Pens1566]

I know, I know. Not part of occupy, isolated incident. No connection.

Willful ignorance or cognitive dissonance, which is it?

 

[halik]

Yes, you made your emotion-based beliefs clear. Nonetheless, the news articles about this specific incident do not support your beliefs. OWS is but one of a great many groups who have descended upon Chicago, mostly in response to the NATO meetings. According to the factual evidence presented here, this specific protest was NOT related to OWS, but was instead organized by the Catholic Worker movement. That's simply a fact, no matter how inconvenient it is for your dearly-held beliefs.

Further, the photos of the event -- photos from your link -- do NOT support your beliefs. The signs were uniformly focused on war, NATO, etc. Your girl with the Occupy t-shirt is the single, solitary exception as far as I saw. Like Spidey, you see only the 3% that matches your faith, not the 97% that contradict you.

Not sure about my "emotion-based beliefs", but reality is in line with what I posted:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Time to reconsider your position?

 

[Bowfinger]

Not sure about my "emotion-based beliefs", but reality is in line with what I posted:
[ ... ]
Time to reconsider your position?

Not at all. You disputed the comment, "This was a NATO protest. It was not Occupy Wall Street." No matter how much you wave your hands and try to shift the goal posts, the fact remains you were wrong. Your photos were full of anti-war and anti-NATO signs, not OWS signs. The articles about the incident state it was organized by the Catholic Workers movement, not Occupy Chicago. Regardless of what else Occupy Chicago is or is not doing, this incident was not their doing. You may feel otherwise, but there has been no evidence presented supporting your feelings.

 

[halik]

Not at all. You disputed the comment, "This was a NATO protest. It was not Occupy Wall Street." No matter how much you wave your hands and try to shift the goal posts, the fact remains you were wrong. Your photos were full of anti-war and anti-NATO signs, not OWS signs. The articles about the incident state it was organized by the Catholic Workers movement, not Occupy Chicago. Regardless of what else Occupy Chicago is or is not doing, this incident was not their doing. You may feel otherwise, but there has been no evidence presented supporting your feelings.

You do see that protests is scheduled on the Occupy Chicago website, right?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Halik, you are saying that if another group supports what someone else is doing, then it automatically makes them the ones organizing it and in charge?

You keep posting pictures that do not prove your position. Some members from OWS were there, but OMG OWS protesters actually participate in OTHER ISSUES??!?!?!

You are arguing a rather stupid and indefensible position and it is not earning you any points. The only two that seem to be lock step beside you are Cybr and Spidey.

Two Highly Respected political trolls...

 

[Bowfinger]

You do see that protests is scheduled on the Occupy Chicago website, right?

I see hundreds of events and activities listed on their Google calendar, some sponsored by Occupy Chicago and others not. The "Week without Capitalism" appears to be a daily event this week. Had you bothered to click it, you would have found the following information:

Week Without Capitalism - Free Market
You can bring items to give away at any point but earlier in the week is better. Remember – everything is free!!!!
We Need Volunteers Each Day!! – To bring a food dish at noon or 4pm or general help w/ sorting/greeting/etc. Reply to this email or call John at the house to offer help.

John Bambrick-Rust
White Rose Catholic Worker
2127 W. Devon Ave
Chicago, IL 60659
773-856-0315

And note who is sponsoring this: White Rose Catholic Worker.

Are you ready to pull you own head out of the sand and reconsider your position?

 

[Bowfinger]

I should add, kudos to both the protestors and the Chicago Police for keeping this protest peaceful. That's how it should be done, but both parties have to cooperate. Let's hope this continues throughout the week, though I don't envy the Chicago PD. With so many different groups and movements pouring into Chicago for the NATO event, it's a sure bet some will be less committed to peaceful protest than this Catholic Workers group.

 

[werepossum]

Halik, you are saying that if another group supports what someone else is doing, then it automatically makes them the ones organizing it and in charge?

You keep posting pictures that do not prove your position. Some members from OWS were there, but OMG OWS protesters actually participate in OTHER ISSUES??!?!?!

You are arguing a rather stupid and indefensible position and it is not earning you any points. The only two that seem to be lock step beside you are Cybr and Spidey.

Two Highly Respected political trolls...

Actually pretty much everyone accepts Halik's point - that these are the same protesters, NOT necessarily that OWS or Occupy Chicago organized this particular protest - except those who find it politically expedient to deny the evidence. This is the protester class; it's what they do. Whether it's protesting NATO or protesting Wall Street "greed" or protesting government corruption or protesting the WTO or protesting the meat industry or protesting Republicans or whatever, these are largely the same people. They protest; it's what they do. South Park had it right, just flip your sign over to the cause of the day and demand your way.

That Halik (or I) might agree with them on a particular issue doesn't change the fact that it's the same people. It's the rent-a-mob, and while its nominal leadership might be transgendered anarchists for one issue or militant vegans for another or anti-war Catholic socialists for a third, its core is built around the same Marxist losers hoping to destroy American society as it traditionally exists, abolish capitalism, and institute a Marxist system whereby their ideological purity is rewarded rather than others' hard work, ability, education and sacrifice.

Halik makes a lot of money, and granted, I'm sure that luck played a part in his opportunities. The fact remains that none of these people could successfully do his job. People are NOT interchangeable; we all have different strengths, some of which are highly valued by others in society and some of which are not. (If your particular skill set is mostly smoking weed and spouting Marxist slogans, you'd better have a PHD and a cushy professorship, else you're going to be asking whether or not I want fries.) Should these Marxists ever succeed, they will find themselves in the same position as every other Marxists who attain power - seizing a larger slice of a pie that rapidly shrinks as self-made people previously motivated by enlightened self interest (in Occutard speech, "greed") discover there is no longer any benefit in hard work, innovation and risk taking.

 

[cybrsage]

Your statement that every jaywalker should be prosecuted, along with every violator of every law. I then pointed out the level of manpower and expenditure required to catch every single law violator, you backpedaled with such speed you would have thought your initial position had hepatitis. After I agreed to work with your second position, that everyone in court should be charged, I pointed out that would still require a large increase in taxpayer expenses. Now you are backpedaling a second time you adjust your position once again.

Let's go back to the beginning. Should every jaywalker be prosecuted, yes or no?

You like to ignore context, and you did it again. I already gave you a huge hit, but I will spell it out for you.

The people under discussion were already arrested.

Let me say it again, so when you "forget" I said it, everyone will will see that you are being stupid on purpose. I will even bold it for you, in case your eyes are not what they used to be.

The people under discussion were already arrested.

Now do you understand why context is important, or are you going to continue to pretend you are extremely stupid and unable to understand?

 

[cybrsage]

Two Highly Respected political trolls...

Since you are the Hawking of trolls, I thank you for saying I am highly respected. It warms my heart that someone at the pinnacle of trolling would say such a thing.

You love me, you really really love me! :wub: Wan hav ghey sechs nao?

 

[cybrsage]

I should add, kudos to both the protestors and the Chicago Police for keeping this protest peaceful. That's how it should be done, but both parties have to cooperate. Let's hope this continues throughout the week, though I don't envy the Chicago PD. With so many different groups and movements pouring into Chicago for the NATO event, it's a sure bet some will be less committed to peaceful protest than this Catholic Workers group.

Agreed. Peaceful protests should always be allowed, provided they do not break the law. I do not care if you are peacefully trespassing or peacefully blocking the entrance to a business, you should not do it.

 

[Abraxas]

You like to ignore context, and you did it again. I already gave you a huge hit, but I will spell it out for you.

The people under discussion were already arrested.

Let me say it again, so when you "forget" I said it, everyone will will see that you are being stupid on purpose. I will even bold it for you, in case your eyes are not what they used to be.

The people under discussion were already arrested.

Now do you understand why context is important, or are you going to continue to pretend you are extremely stupid and unable to understand?

Can I get you anything? A hat? A hairpiece? I only ask because your brain damage is showing.

I already gave you that. Hence you will notice I limited the scope of the second question to people already in court. You are aware the people already in court for criminal acts have not already already been arrested, but also have not been turned loose by the police who at times let people go with only a warning. So not only did I accept the already arrested line from you, I did you one better and gave you gratis the people the police turned loose already. However, that still leaves a very large pool of people the judge or the DA would have dropped charges on because the time and the expense weren't worth the trivial nature of the offense. I am asking how you would pay for them given the system is already hugely overloaded.

You're still at square one, whining about them already being arrested, never mind that in and of itself was a departure from the orginal question you were posed, but what is clear to anyone reading the thread, you were already given that. You're like the toddler screaming for the lolipop in his left hand.

Now that we have hopefully pulled your head far enought out you can see this post, of the people in court who otherwise would have been released by the judge or prosecutor, how much are you willing to raise taxes to pay for the people, the facilities, and training necessary to make it work?

 

[halik]

Actually pretty much everyone accepts Halik's point - that these are the same protesters, NOT necessarily that OWS or Occupy Chicago organized this particular protest - except those who find it politically expedient to deny the evidence. This is the protester class; it's what they do. Whether it's protesting NATO or protesting Wall Street "greed" or protesting government corruption or protesting the WTO or protesting the meat industry or protesting Republicans or whatever, these are largely the same people. They protest; it's what they do. South Park had it right, just flip your sign over to the cause of the day and demand your way.

That Halik (or I) might agree with them on a particular issue doesn't change the fact that it's the same people. It's the rent-a-mob, and while its nominal leadership might be transgendered anarchists for one issue or militant vegans for another or anti-war Catholic socialists for a third, its core is built around the same Marxist losers hoping to destroy American society as it traditionally exists, abolish capitalism, and institute a Marxist system whereby their ideological purity is rewarded rather than others' hard work, ability, education and sacrifice.

Halik makes a lot of money, and granted, I'm sure that luck played a part in his opportunities. The fact remains that none of these people could successfully do his job. People are NOT interchangeable; we all have different strengths, some of which are highly valued by others in society and some of which are not. (If your particular skill set is mostly smoking weed and spouting Marxist slogans, you'd better have a PHD and a cushy professorship, else you're going to be asking whether or not I want fries.) Should these Marxists ever succeed, they will find themselves in the same position as every other Marxists who attain power - seizing a larger slice of a pie that rapidly shrinks as self-made people previously motivated by enlightened self interest (in Occutard speech, "greed") discover there is no longer any benefit in hard work, innovation and risk taking.

Far more succinct that I could've ever put it.

I don't take an issue with people protesting, but rather the misguided ideals they try to put forth. Having grown up behind the iron curtain, I take an issue with white suburbia teens/20somethings preaching about marxist utopia and other such nonsense.

Also I don't make that much money...

 

[Ninjahedge]

Werepossum, what is "risk taking" if there is no risk?

Didn't we bail out JP just a few years ago and yet they are still "hedge funding" their way into another $2B fiasco?

As for Halik, my point was simply saying that his assertion was too broad. He was saying that these ORGANIZATIONS were one and the same, not the people participating in the events.

There is always crossover, and cynically applying that as "professional dissident" is not fair for the movements themselves.

This thread is tainted.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Far more succinct that I could've ever put it.

Irony = That was not succinct.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Irony = That was not succinct.

No irony if halik was observing that he can be even more pointlessly verbose than old roadkill...

 

[cybrsage]

Can I get you anything?

Not a hard thing to understand. Either remove the laws or enforce them. Do not randomly enforce laws based on the ever changing desire of one person. No need to raise taxes, the people are already being paid to do the job - but instead are releasing law breakers without punishment.

 

[CallMeJoe]

You do see that protests is scheduled on the Occupy Chicago website, right?

Fox News similarly listed Tea Party rallies; does that mean Fox News runs the Tea Party?

 

[halik]

Fox News similarly listed Tea Party rallies; does that mean Fox News runs the Tea Party?

I don't think anyone disputed that Fox News was pushing that agenda, or that they cater to that audience.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Not a hard thing to understand. Either remove the laws or enforce them. Do not randomly enforce laws based on the ever changing desire of one person. No need to raise taxes, the people are already being paid to do the job - but instead are releasing law breakers without punishment.

Twenty protestors were arrested and are not being prosecuted. Have you considered the possibility that the District Attorney determined that those protestors had not actually violated any ordinances, or that he may have decided that there was insufficient evidence to convict?

Not everyone arrested is necessarily guilty, and not every violation of the law can be successfully prosecuted. Your instant assumption of negligence on the part of the District Attorney does not seem firmly grounded, unless you have information concerning these protestors and their acts that has not been mentioned in this thread.

 

[Ninjahedge]

No irony if halik was observing that he can be even more pointlessly verbose than old roadkill...

No, no, no!!!!

It has a point... I just need some more time to find it........








its around here somewhere.....

 

[werepossum]

Werepossum, what is "risk taking" if there is no risk?

Didn't we bail out JP just a few years ago and yet they are still "hedge funding" their way into another $2B fiasco?

As for Halik, my point was simply saying that his assertion was too broad. He was saying that these ORGANIZATIONS were one and the same, not the people participating in the events.

There is always crossover, and cynically applying that as "professional dissident" is not fair for the movements themselves.

This thread is tainted.

That's a fair point. I do believe that Bush, Obama and Congress were far too quick to bail out the investment banks; I think they should have gone into bankruptcy, where the bankruptcy trustee could legally strip out such provisions as performance (or existence) bonuses. Too big to fail should not mean too big to miss our bonuses, and if your company has to be bailed out, no one in it should be collecting bonuses. Keeping your job should be sufficient. However - I do understand the reasons behind it. Delaying the bail-out to establish a pre-structured bankruptcy might well have resulted in even more jobs being lost as confidence in the economy dropped, the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As far as Halik, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he never said it was the same organizations driving these disparate events, that's just the way it was interpreted. The way the protester class works is that this group of transgendered "anarchists" (a term which now apparently is verbal camouflage for "hard core Marxist parasite") organizes a protest and the organizations run by the militant vegans and the anti-war Catholic socialists post it and encourage their own members (some of which aren't formally members of the other organizations) to participate. Then the militant vegans will organize a protest which the transgendered "anarchists" and the anti-war Catholic socialists post and encourage. Then the anti-war Catholic socialists will organize a protest which the transgendered "anarchists" and the militant vegans post and encourage. Thus Halik's incontrovertible point that these are the same people, albeit with slightly different "leadership", at all these protests. Everyone knows this; some just refuse to admit it.

 

[Ninjahedge]

The main problem is that he was not making it like they were crossovers, but they were one and the same.

That is not true. There are some that participate more and in more than others, but the phraseology used implied "same old group of know-nothings" without any real proof.