OC will shorten the hardware life span?

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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,378
1,911
126
I seriously suggest you read this thread because you are completly wrong.

Ditto to that. The new motherboards -- probably beginning with socket 1366 -- use solid-state components, and even for mid-range boards have industrial-strength VRM and phase-power design features built for the "stress."

It seems that the only item likely to be run outside any sort of "warranty-spec" is the CPU.
 

Dravic

Senior member
May 18, 2000
892
0
76
True that. And I'd extend this sage advice to include "Never OC if you can't afford to lose your data (files)."

Silent data corruption really sucks.

also why i don't use consumer raid cards and OC.. nothing sucked more then turning on the PC and seeing a broken raid (3 times).. probably much better since the old highpoint days. but I'm still gun shy with consumer level raid.
 

tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
2
81
www.hammiestudios.com
Hi, I'm newbie in OC. My inquiry as stated in the title above. ;)

What will shorten the hardware life is if it gets hot constantly.

As long as your temps are good the hardware life is good.

But if you have a cheap HSF then a OC and your looking at 70's and 80's c that will shorten life.


What you wanna do, list your specs please go to user cp and enter your computer system.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,225
13,608
126
www.anyf.ca
Today's hardware is just so fast there is hardly no reason to overclock these days other than the cool/ [H]ard factor.

If you cool it well enough though I can't see how it would affect it's life span.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
also why i don't use consumer raid cards and OC.. nothing sucked more then turning on the PC and seeing a broken raid (3 times).. probably much better since the old highpoint days. but I'm still gun shy with consumer level raid.

Also if you use mobo raid, it will lose the array if you reset the CMOS... like due to having tried a too unstable to boot OC.
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
12,689
3
81
Thermally activated degradation mechanisms in IC's follow the Arrhenius equation.

In practice this means the lifetime of an IC roughly doubles for every 10°C decrease in operating temperature if all else is held constant (voltage, clockspeed, workload, humidity, etc).

Degradation mechanisms for an IC are dependent on voltage (electric field gradient), current (clockspeed, workload), and temperature (activation barrier).

OT question: if an IC is rated 0-70C, but is run at -20C, will the IC be damaged?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
OT question: if an IC is rated 0-70C, but is run at -20C, will the IC be damaged?

Nope, running below spec won't damage the IC. It might not function at the lower temp (aka "cold bug") but it won't be damaged.

The same cannot be said of the package containing the IC. The substrate to which the IC is attached.

Those solder bumps are prone to stress-strain fracture and the lower temperature will reduce their fracture toughness (the bumps become less ductile and more brittle) such that the thermal cycling from the chip heating up and cooling back down will result in accentuated shear stresses.

So the IC won't be damaged but the IC package could be damaged. That is the academic answer. In practice it is not a concern, people who cool their chips with liquid Helium and pump nearly 2V through them still don't kill the chips in so-called suicide OC runs.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
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What will shorten the hardware life is if it gets hot constantly.

As long as your temps are good the hardware life is good.
......

The extra heat from oc is not the biggest cpu killer, overvolting the cpu is, so what you stated earlier and above is not correct.

To the OP- nothing is guaranteed except for stock speed for the standard 3 yr warranty period. Many have good results with mild oc perhaps in the region of 5-10% or so. Many had to dial back what was previously rock solid ocs even with good cooling.

If Im soo wrong explain yourself.. you say 2 words... back it up kid... Im GURU GOD and everything I say is true unless I say IMO., You little 17 year old. Im 35 dont have time for u!

Please don't make stupid posts on my threads,,
Even as the AT resident jester, you can sound too serious.
 

Puppies04

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2011
5,909
17
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What will shorten the hardware life is if it gets hot constantly. As long as your temps are good the hardware life is good.

I will let shintaiDK point out your other mistakes but just so you know your level of inability on this subject the above comment if absolutly 100% wrong. 2 things kill oc'd cpus voltage and heat, it doesn't matter if you keep the CPU at 30°C for it's entire life, if you are pumping 50% higher voltage than standard through it then you are shortening it's potential lifespan compared to stock.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
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I will let shintaiDK point out your other mistakes but just so you know your level of inability on this subject the above comment if absolutly 100% wrong. 2 things kill oc'd cpus voltage and heat, it doesn't matter if you keep the CPU at 30°C for it's entire life, if you are pumping 50% higher voltage than standard through it then you are shortening it's potential lifespan compared to stock.

Not only that, but heat only does damage DIRECTLY if it is hot enough to burn/melt the CPU, which ruins it in under a second and is prevented on modern CPUs by their temp limiting. (although it can still happen with certain unusual failure types)

The method via which heat contributes to the CPUs degradation in reality is by exacerbating the damage from electromigration. Without voltage running through it heat (below the threshhold) is harmless.
 

bl00tdi

Member
May 31, 2012
31
0
66
Also if you use mobo raid, it will lose the array if you reset the CMOS... like due to having tried a too unstable to boot OC.
OT but I have to disagree here. The raid configuration utility is completely separate from the BIOS, at least on the boards I've used in the past 5 years or so. Wasn't messing with it before then so I can't speak on the older stuff.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,423
5,727
136
If Im soo wrong explain yourself.. you say 2 words... back it up kid... Im GURU GOD and everything I say is true unless I say IMO., You little 17 year old. Im 35 dont have time for u!

Please don't make stupid posts on my threads,,

Wow, really wrong and really arrogant, great combination. :rolleyes: Being old doesn't stop you being wrong. (Also, this isn't your thread.)
 

cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
^ arogance and ignorance full loaded he is! lol :D

Yes voltage matters a lot. Not only overvolting for overclocking but also the voltage spikes cause damage. That's why having good solid PSU is important. So yeah, it boils down to voltage.
 

Haserath

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
793
1
81
Instead of voltage and heat, wouldn't it technically be current and temperature causing the damage?

Temps most likely cause stress-strain fracture over time like IDC stated. Current causes the electromigration(current scales with voltage).

As long as both are kept within what the IC can handle, it shouldn't really be affected much, but it's still under more stress.

I assume its much like our body's tolerance. You can take a 100-110F shower every day and be fine, but 130F would damage. You can also take a little bit of current, which could actually be beneficial for your brain, but 1 amp would easily kill.

Am I wrong?
 

cheez

Golden Member
Nov 19, 2010
1,722
69
91
^ Voltage and temperature have very strong relationship. They go hand in hand.

Scenarios:

- You jack up the voltage. The temperature of the components increases, causing instabilities.

- You jack up temperature, the voltages can become unstable. The fluctuations vary depending on the hardware.


The following likes cool / cold temperature:

- Electrical components
- Automobile engines
- Airplanes
- Helicopters
- Spacecraft / Rockets
- Humans for exercising
- Dogs for running and swimming
- Cats for playing and running
- Hamsters running on wheel

Trust me. Cool temperature favors electrical components. I have noticed noticeable visual improvement in the video on my plasma TV in the cold (temp in the 40s- 50's F) vs. 90+F. This is why I rarely use heater... unless real, real cold outside.

:D
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Instead of voltage and heat, wouldn't it technically be current and temperature causing the damage?

Understand that there is a manifold of degredation mechanisms occuring in every IC. Out of the hundreds of ways that exist for an IC to degrade all that matters (to the end user) is the one that does it first.

Electromigration, void formation, dielectric breakdown, hot carriers, etc...each is a physically unique phenomenon involving special conditions (geometry and species dependent) and each is dependent on temperature, voltage, and current in accordance with physics.

Apply no voltage to the IC but heat it up and you activate all purely thermal mechanisms, including diffusion. The dopants move around such that they change concentrations, and when those dopants move around in the channel region of the transistor they degrade the electrical characterstics of the xtor.

Apply no heat (take it down to near absolute zero) but apply a voltage and no current (i.e. place the IC into an electromagnetic field) and you will activate ions within the dielectrics which become charge carriers - the same phenomenon that we refer to as fast-ion conductors.

These charge carriers reduce the insulating properties of the dielectric materials within the IC (between the wires as well as within the xtor itself) and the result is a degredation in the leakage properties of the device.

Apply a voltage and allow current to flow and now you have electrons flowing through both the leaky dielectrics material as well as the intended paths of conduction - both of which are permanently changed over time from the electrons literally knocking atoms out of place and enabling them to overcome their thermally-limited activation barriers.

This results in void formation within copper lines, and leaky dielectric materials becoming so leaky that they start generating lots and lots of heat (joule heating) and catastrophic degredation sets in rather quickly.

So you see your CPU can die from basically any source of energy - be it thermal or electromagnetic - it is just a question of how quickly and from how much.

It is an industry standard to design process nodes such that they entail an intrinsic lifetime reliability capability of 10yrs at the extreme corners of the IC's operating specs (max temp and max voltage). But it is not a law and it is not written in stone, so if a company wanted to cut corners and just take the risk of having a bunch of in-field fails happening then they could certainly build less robust IC's. I know of no cases where this has happened though, no one wants the financial liability (it would be a penny-wise/pound-foolish move on behalf of whoever did it, so basically no one does or will).

With today's TJmax thermally limited CPUs it is practically impossible for you to shortchange your CPU's lifespan by running it too hot. You have to increase the voltage to get into a regime in which the lifespan is being signficantly reduced. Once you get there though, temperature definitely makes a bad situation even worse (even if you are below TJmax).

Pumping 1.5V through my Sandy Bridge while hitting 95°C at 5GHz in LinX was bad on both accounts but I expect it to last at least 2 yrs under those conditions and I really don't care if it dies after that (or degrades to the point of not sustaining the OC).
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,058
3,550
126
*sigh*..

Voltage can kill a cpu...
Heat can also kill a cpu... thats why they throttle, and then go into thermal shutdown.

Saying neither nor cant kill a cpu is you being just silly, and i have more then 10 dead cpu's from both scenarios to prove it.

Will overclocking shorten the lifespan of the cpu?

Yes... anytime u increase anything in the cpu, you will eat into life span.
Will cooling it more effieciently help me? Yes... every 10C u reduce your overall temps, you effectively doubled your processors life.

When one overclocks, we assume we can get more at the cost of something else.
If you want your cpu to last as long as it was on stock, then you need to give it the extra cooling to help that, however like everything in physics, nothing is for free and sometimes trying to get that extra 5% can really cost you a exponential amount of money.. Ie. Watercooling..

People use watercooling to cool a processor on a watercooling unit which is more expensive then the processor itself just so they can get every last bit of effiency from the said processor.
(note: my LC system costs more then the entire core hardware)

@ IDC... Holy cow.. since when did intel allow us to use that much voltage at those load temps...

I dont predict it lasting 2 yrs.. i predict it losing oc potential in about 3 months... and gradually lose more oc potential until your cpu cant hold stock settings at stock voltage due to degradation.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,378
1,911
126
*sigh*..

. . . . . . . .

@ IDC... Holy cow.. since when did intel allow us to use that much voltage at those load temps...

I dont predict it lasting 2 yrs.. i predict it losing oc potential in about 3 months... and gradually lose more oc potential until your cpu cant hold stock settings at stock voltage due to degradation.

Ha! We're you been, Aigo?! I agree about IDC's Sandy. You still up there in LA . . . wherewuzit . . . . near Arcadia?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
@ IDC... Holy cow.. since when did intel allow us to use that much voltage at those load temps...

I dont predict it lasting 2 yrs.. i predict it losing oc potential in about 3 months... and gradually lose more oc potential until your cpu cant hold stock settings at stock voltage due to degradation.

Ha! We're you been, Aigo?! I agree about IDC's Sandy. You still up there in LA . . . wherewuzit . . . . near Arcadia?

Stock voltage for my 2600K at stock clockspeeds is 1.34V.

At TJmax and stock voltage my CPU is expected to last 10yrs. (I base this expectation on my personal experience, not with CPU's but with process development experience in the industry)

Raising the voltage from 1.34V to 1.5V is expected to reduced the operating lifetime by a factor of of <2.

Just as device physics (Arrhenius equation) gives us a rule of thumb that the operating lifetime is cut in half for every 10°C increase in operating temperatures, operating lifetime goes as the inverse of the 4th power of voltage.

(1.34^4)/(1.5^4) = 3.22/5.06 = 0.64 (that means the expected lifetime at 1.5V is 64% that of the expected lifetime at 1.34V)

I can understand the reluctance to believe me in this school of thought, I would too if I didn't do this for a living in my professional life. But that is the way it works out.

There is a reason you don't see a massive out-cry of 2600k/2500k owners that their chips have died at 5GHz, it is also the reason why the number crunchers at Intel decided that offering a performance tuning program for a mere $25 was money in the bank despite the liklihood that people would slam their processor with crazy Vcc after buying it.

Device physics is a killer for lifetime, but once Intel enabled thermal and current throttling it becomes nearly impossible to kill your processor by adding enough volts at high enough clocks without tripping that TJmax or simply not getting any higher clocks (fully saturated Ion, no more GHz regardless the Vcc increase).
 

Haserath

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
793
1
81
Understand that there is a manifold of degredation mechanisms occuring in every IC. Out of the hundreds of ways that exist for an IC to degrade all that matters (to the end user) is the one that does it first.

I suspected that there are multiple ways of degradation that I wouldn't know about, but I guess I'm being too general with the names.

I didn't know voltage did that to the processor.

I assume these effects play on each other though? Like the lattice structure of ions created from the voltage also increases joule heating which then increases diffusion and so on.

Would it be possible to create a processor with this lattice structure already in place?
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Stock voltage for my 2600K at stock clockspeeds is 1.34V.

At TJmax and stock voltage my CPU is expected to last 10yrs. (I base this expectation on my personal experience, not with CPU's but with process development experience in the industry)

Raising the voltage from 1.34V to 1.5V is expected to reduced the operating lifetime by a factor of of <2.

Just as device physics (Arrhenius equation) gives us a rule of thumb that the operating lifetime is cut in half for every 10°C increase in operating temperatures, operating lifetime goes as the inverse of the 4th power of voltage.

(1.34^4)/(1.5^4) = 3.22/5.06 = 0.64 (that means the expected lifetime at 1.5V is 64% that of the expected lifetime at 1.34V)

I can understand the reluctance to believe me in this school of thought, I would too if I didn't do this for a living in my professional life. But that is the way it works out.

There is a reason you don't see a massive out-cry of 2600k/2500k owners that their chips have died at 5GHz, it is also the reason why the number crunchers at Intel decided that offering a performance tuning program for a mere $25 was money in the bank despite the liklihood that people would slam their processor with crazy Vcc after buying it.

Device physics is a killer for lifetime, but once Intel enabled thermal and current throttling it becomes nearly impossible to kill your processor by adding enough volts at high enough clocks without tripping that TJmax or simply not getting any higher clocks (fully saturated Ion, no more GHz regardless the Vcc increase).

Is that 10 continuous years (24/7 at load? 24/7 at idle? some combination?), or 10 years of "normal" usage, say 8 hours per day or less, most of it idle? Just curious