HJD1: The viability of a theory increases as the precept of that theory becomes clear.. or is proven true or accepted as true in practice. It is at this point the theory becomes the precept. When what has been propounded again and again but not found true or accepted as true, by reasonable people, the requirement for constant refortification and debate on the merits of its viability and the underlying premise or premises is not only expected but often demanded.
That no person is perfect or that all perfection is an illusion can hardly be debated to any conclusion. Each sees what each can see and rationalizes with what visions persist from a life time of existence in an environment where no two can stand identically.
Hence, and therefore, It is prudent to try and see a bit beyond the accepted view if for no other reason than to widen the environment to include just that little bit more.
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What I see here as an affirmation of the notion that questioning is good.
So Bober also has questions. That's good:
Bober: But why should he back it up? Read libertarian essays. The ideas have been written about ad nauseam. Why should he reinvent the theory every time one of these political threads comes up.
No system will be perfect because people aren't perfect. Some of us believe that a system which provides the most people the most freedoms, as imperfect as it may be, is the best option.
People like you seem to feel that nobody is capable of perfection, therefore everyone should be controlled by those who consider themselves closest to perfection, i.e. yourself and politicians. But then you never back up your theories either, so I have no idea what the f*** you're REALLY talking about either.
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Well I did read Libertarian essays and came to the conclusion that it was just another power grab, a rationalization of the notion of private property. I had a big thread about it and Amused didn't say much. He dismissed the whole thing out of hand, but couldn't argue it. Just the usual platitudes, like BS baffling, indignation without substance. Moonbeams points are beneath my dignity to respond to. RIIIIIGHT!
You however have made a case for yourself and challenged me to lay out mine. That's cool, that's how it should be, no?
OK first to what you have said. No system is perfect because people aren't. (Note that just a sentence or two farther along you accuse me of "People like you seem to feel that nobody is capable of perfection..." a seeming contradiction or double standard of some sort, no? but anyway) Well so if no system is perfect why have a system? Why think systematically? Why involve yourself in an ideology at all. Why not simply stare at life in amazement and wonder, without opinion of conclusion. Why not just see what is, that man is asleep in the grips of ideologies, this or that view of which he is certain. Why not be uncertain, free, really free, unattached, aware.
"Some of us believe that a system which provides the most people the most freedoms, as imperfect as it may be, is the best option." Some of us believe that a system is a prison for the mind, as I suggest above.
People like you seem to feel that nobody is capable of perfection, (Not true, I feel that man is perfectible. I believe that is what an Avatar is, a perfect man.) therefore everyone should be controlled by those who consider themselves closest to perfection, i.e. yourself and politicians. (Not so, I am far from perfect as any politician. I do suggest, though, that there are levels of development and that one person may be more aware than the next and that teaching sort of is a reflection of that fact) But then you never back up your theories either, so I have no idea what the f*** you're REALLY talking about either. (Well mostly I'm not talking about anything. I believe that to learn is to unlearn and that learning can't take place without unlearning. We are ego maniacs in my opinion, stuffed full of crap we believe without questioning. We fear uncertainty and cling like frightened monkeys to our branches of security, out opinions about the meaning of life. What if everything we know is absolutely upside down to reality. Hehe, it is, no? How is anybody going to cross a river with their thousand pounds of cabbage. I want the truth, but I have to have my cabbage too.
What I do is look at things, all the wonderful dreams we have and say, no not that. Truth is the universe and the way there is through the mirror of the heart. I don't have a system to push. I try to sell the notion that what we need is mirror polish. If you want some kind of answer, some theory of reality from me, all I can do is sing a song
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
No, not just for some, but for everyone
Lord we don't need another mountain
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enought to cross
Enough to last till the end of time
Lord, we don't need another meadow
There are cornfields and wheatfields enough to grow
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine
Oh listen lord, if you wanna know