Obama's plan would "bankrupt" coal plants, by his own admission.

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Coal provides like 1/2 of our power -- if all the plants went offline, we'd be fucked. Obama may be a hippie environmentalist, but he's not stupid, and I'm sure he likes electric lighting in his house just as much as we do.

Existing facilities would likely be exempt, or grandfathered in if clean coal techniques and carbon sequestration would allow them to meet the new emission requirements. Notice he doesn't mention anything about shutting down existing plants, but only discourages new facilities from being built.

the carbon emission would be charged to all plants.

from barackobama.com:
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

The Obama-Biden cap-and-trade policy will require all pollution credits to be auctioned, and proceeds will go to investments in a clean energy future, habitat protections, and rebates and other transition relief for families

Well you voted for change.
I predict your unemployment lines will get longer and your power bills higher.

 

[quest55720]

The next 4 years under Obama are going to be a horrible. Yep we really need some bullshit cap and trade when the economy is in the shitter. Yep lets put more pressure on business by doubling or tripling the cost of energy. I can't wait for my electric bill to double in the name of the environment.

Can Obama be any more anti-business? He wants to tax and energy cost business to death.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: quest55720
The next 4 years under Obama are going to be a horrible.

Would the next 4 years under McCain be better in your eyes?

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: quest55720
The next 4 years under Obama are going to be a horrible.

Would the next 4 years under McCain be better in your eyes?

Yes it would be but it is not going to happen. I just can't wait till people see the real Obama once he wins. I will be laughing the whole time when I hear people start to bitch about Obama and his anti-energy and business stance.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: quest55720
The next 4 years under Obama are going to be a horrible.

Would the next 4 years under McCain be better in your eyes?

Many businesses and corporations are already on the verge of collapse. During the Great Depression business taxes were raised and instead of paying them, businesses gave up & closed down. You think that's not going to happen again? Consumers are not spending. This plan to rebuild the economy from the bottom up will take too long.

Not to mention raising business taxes are just going to make them even less competitive than overseas competition.

In terms of the coal industry - protect the jobs today, then absolutely move to clean technology once the economy rebounds.

Talk about everything else, specifically the economy & stock market that is most people's primary concern, Obama plans to tax the hell out of the stock market. We need investors putting money back into the stock market, but with Obama not only do they assume all the losses, if they happen to make any money, he's going to take a larger portion of it. That's not going to help the stock market.

So yea, in those terms many do believe under McCain the next 4 years will be better. The New Deal was a crock. Less government intervention, less taxes all around is my belief to create jobs & get out of the crapper.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
So yea, in those terms many do believe under McCain the next 4 years will be better.

So what you're saying is that if we don't do anything at all, we'd have a better chance? I know that McCain is not Bush, but his goals and focus aren't any different when it comes to the economy.

 

[cubby1223]

But to be fair to Obama, the comment was made long before the financial crisis hit.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Coal provides like 1/2 of our power -- if all the plants went offline, we'd be fucked. Obama may be a hippie environmentalist, but he's not stupid, and I'm sure he likes electric lighting in his house just as much as we do.

Existing facilities would likely be exempt, or grandfathered in if clean coal techniques and carbon sequestration would allow them to meet the new emission requirements. Notice he doesn't mention anything about shutting down existing plants, but only discourages new facilities from being built.

the carbon emission would be charged to all plants.

from barackobama.com:
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

The Obama-Biden cap-and-trade policy will require all pollution credits to be auctioned, and proceeds will go to investments in a clean energy future, habitat protections, and rebates and other transition relief for families

Well you voted for change.
I predict your unemployment lines will get longer and your power bills higher.

Well then I guess we're screwed either way, because McCain has been pushing cap and trade for years. So unless you voted 3rd party, you need to STFU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Stewardship_Act

Or maybe you could stop and think for 5 seconds. If you honestly believe either candidate is going to shut down half our electric grid, you're a moron.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Coal provides like 1/2 of our power -- if all the plants went offline, we'd be fucked. Obama may be a hippie environmentalist, but he's not stupid, and I'm sure he likes electric lighting in his house just as much as we do.

Existing facilities would likely be exempt, or grandfathered in if clean coal techniques and carbon sequestration would allow them to meet the new emission requirements. Notice he doesn't mention anything about shutting down existing plants, but only discourages new facilities from being built.

the carbon emission would be charged to all plants.

from barackobama.com:
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

The Obama-Biden cap-and-trade policy will require all pollution credits to be auctioned, and proceeds will go to investments in a clean energy future, habitat protections, and rebates and other transition relief for families

Well you voted for change.
I predict your unemployment lines will get longer and your power bills higher.

Well then I guess we're screwed either way, because McCain has been pushing cap and trade for years. So unless you voted 3rd party, you need to STFU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Stewardship_Act

Or maybe you could stop and think for 5 seconds. If you honestly believe either candidate is going to shut down half our electric grid, you're a moron.

This.

 

[Xavier434]

Do what he wants to do except provide them with a modest time table for the current coal plants to upgrade their infrastructure and technologies to meet the standards of clean coal technology. Such a time table will put a little pressure on them but ensure that they have plenty of time to do what they need to do in order to not go bankrupt. I am confident that Obama is well aware that these plants need time to do what is necessary. I am also confident that he is aware that these plants are not going to go that route unless pressured to do so which is basically all that he wants to do.


Where is the problem?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Conservatives are so short-minded. We need to move AWAY from coal, that is not the future. That is a dead end.

To create jobs, revitalize our economy, and lead the world again in technological achievement we must lead the way in developing new sources of renewable energy. This stupid "drill, baby, drill" represents the true ignorance and stupidity of Conservatives and their failed ideology. Failed, miserable, ideology.

And please tell us which magical energy source will replace 50% of our countries energy production?

I'll take a failed ideoglogy that works anyday over one based on fantasy land which relies on a miracle. You think we are going to perform the equivalent of turning water into wine in the energy sector?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Conservatives are so short-minded. We need to move AWAY from coal, that is not the future. That is a dead end.

To create jobs, revitalize our economy, and lead the world again in technological achievement we must lead the way in developing new sources of renewable energy. This stupid "drill, baby, drill" represents the true ignorance and stupidity of Conservatives and their failed ideology. Failed, miserable, ideology.

And please tell us which magical energy source will replace 50% of our countries energy production?

I'll take a failed ideoglogy that works anyday over one based on fantasy land which relies on a miracle. You think we are going to perform the equivalent of turning water into wine in the energy sector?

You dumbass I never said we should shutdown all our coal plants.

"DRILL BABY DRILL" "DRILL BABY DRILL"

Fucking idiot conservative.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Conservatives are so short-minded. We need to move AWAY from coal, that is not the future. That is a dead end.

To create jobs, revitalize our economy, and lead the world again in technological achievement we must lead the way in developing new sources of renewable energy. This stupid "drill, baby, drill" represents the true ignorance and stupidity of Conservatives and their failed ideology. Failed, miserable, ideology.

And please tell us which magical energy source will replace 50% of our countries energy production?

I'll take a failed ideoglogy that works anyday over one based on fantasy land which relies on a miracle. You think we are going to perform the equivalent of turning water into wine in the energy sector?

You dumbass I never said we should shutdown all our coal plants.

"DRILL BABY DRILL" "DRILL BABY DRILL"

Fucking idiot conservative.

:disgust:

Since you are apparently unable to converse with people in a moderate tone. I'll come down to your level.

Hey brainiac explain to us how we move away from coal without replacing the current energy produced by coal? Feel free to mash the keyboard after you stop dragging your knuckles on the ground.

Once you are done mashing the keyboard like a mindless ape. Feel free to let us know which wonder alternative energy source is in a position to replace coal.

I'd make a comment about you being a mindless liberal. But I know most liberals show more brain activity than you. I wont tarnish their reputation by lumping them in with you.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Conservatives are so short-minded. We need to move AWAY from coal, that is not the future. That is a dead end.

To create jobs, revitalize our economy, and lead the world again in technological achievement we must lead the way in developing new sources of renewable energy. This stupid "drill, baby, drill" represents the true ignorance and stupidity of Conservatives and their failed ideology. Failed, miserable, ideology.

I don't see any reason to move away from coal quite yet. We have a lot of it. What we need to do is modernize all of the infrastructure so that we end up using nothing but clean coal technology.

We also need to invest lots of money in other renewable sources of energy as well because the future does lie somewhere within some source of reliable and renewable energy. In addition, I do think we need to drill more. However, I believe that relying on it as much as McCain wishes to rely on drilling is stupid. It is not a solution. It is merely a small band aid that can buy us a little time but that's it.

As far as Nuclear is concerned, ya we need it and I would like to see more of it around but I don't want to put most of my eggs in that basket like McCain wants to do. He is a bit too aggressive towards that movement. I want to see a healthy mixture. Clean coal, nuclear, bio fuels, renewable energy sources like solar, etc. We need to mix it all up and use it all. We need to invest in multiple sources of energy and the infrastructure to use it. Eventually, we will come out on top with something that we can rely on solely much more but for now that option does not exist at the level of standards that I have.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Coal provides like 1/2 of our power -- if all the plants went offline, we'd be fucked. Obama may be a hippie environmentalist, but he's not stupid, and I'm sure he likes electric lighting in his house just as much as we do.

Existing facilities would likely be exempt, or grandfathered in if clean coal techniques and carbon sequestration would allow them to meet the new emission requirements. Notice he doesn't mention anything about shutting down existing plants, but only discourages new facilities from being built.

the carbon emission would be charged to all plants.

from barackobama.com:
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

The Obama-Biden cap-and-trade policy will require all pollution credits to be auctioned, and proceeds will go to investments in a clean energy future, habitat protections, and rebates and other transition relief for families

Well you voted for change.
I predict your unemployment lines will get longer and your power bills higher.

Well then I guess we're screwed either way, because McCain has been pushing cap and trade for years. So unless you voted 3rd party, you need to STFU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Stewardship_Act

Or maybe you could stop and think for 5 seconds. If you honestly believe either candidate is going to shut down half our electric grid, you're a moron.

This.

stfu...stfu...stfu..:roll:
you liberals are always so gracious and enduring to free speech. As long as its yours.
McCain for me simply is a choice of the lesser evil. a 3rd party candidate is simply throwing your vote away.


So what your saying is don't take anything Obama says to the Bank. Its just more political posturing.
Thats standard politics. Not change.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: daniel49
you liberals

I stopped right here. Biased opinion holds little value.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: uclaLabrat

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Stops polluters dead in their tracks.

I like it.

Clean coal plants shouldn't have this issue.

How would clean coal stop this issue? I'm a little confused then on what clean coal entails. I'm pretty sure it means low sulfur grade coal, which would minimize acid rain. Anyone telling you that clean coal will reduce the CO2 output of said plant needs to take a chemistry class.

The coal doesn't have to be low sulfur. The plants have to have the right scrubbers though. dry scrubber systems are supposed to be preferable for low sulfur coal, and the best/most common choice for higher sulfur coal, is wet scrubber systems.

I'm not certain, but I think CO2 is part of a clean coal plant initiative too. There is a lot going on with carbon capture and storage technology relating to fossil fuel plants. One is turning it into sodium bicarbonate, another is using it for algae farms, and yet another application uses it to replace water for oil recovery. I think I saw on Modern Marvels where one company piping it to Canada had increased the oil production of the field from a few years using water, to approx. 15 years using the CO2.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Coal provides like 1/2 of our power -- if all the plants went offline, we'd be fucked. Obama may be a hippie environmentalist, but he's not stupid, and I'm sure he likes electric lighting in his house just as much as we do.

Existing facilities would likely be exempt, or grandfathered in if clean coal techniques and carbon sequestration would allow them to meet the new emission requirements. Notice he doesn't mention anything about shutting down existing plants, but only discourages new facilities from being built.

the carbon emission would be charged to all plants.

from barackobama.com:
Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

The Obama-Biden cap-and-trade policy will require all pollution credits to be auctioned, and proceeds will go to investments in a clean energy future, habitat protections, and rebates and other transition relief for families

Well you voted for change.
I predict your unemployment lines will get longer and your power bills higher.

Well then I guess we're screwed either way, because McCain has been pushing cap and trade for years. So unless you voted 3rd party, you need to STFU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Stewardship_Act

Or maybe you could stop and think for 5 seconds. If you honestly believe either candidate is going to shut down half our electric grid, you're a moron.

This.

stfu...stfu...stfu..:roll:
you liberals are always so gracious and enduring to free speech. As long as its yours.
McCain for me simply is a choice of the lesser evil. a 3rd party candidate is simply throwing your vote away.


So what your saying is don't take anything Obama says to the Bank. Its just more political posturing.
Thats standard politics. Not change.

Your retort was substantive of that of a mental midget. Of course, it's hard to refute evidence that McCain supported the same stupid cap and trade for coal plants that Obama is referencing.

 

[Budmantom]

What do you expect from Barack Insane Obama?

 

[SP33Demon]

And here comes PALIN to the rescue in another blabberingly insignificant, yet hilarious gaffe on what Obama said about coal:

MARIETTA, OH ?-Sarah Palin unleashed a new attack today after an audio file of an interview Barack Obama did in January 2008 was reported on conservative blogs and linked on the Drudge Report. Palin accused the Democratic nominee of wanting to bankrupt the coal industry.

?Barack Obama explained his plan to the San Francisco Chronicle this year, early this year. And he said that, sure, if the industry wants to build coal fired power plants, then they can go ahead and try, he says, but they can do it only in a way that will bankrupt the coal industry, and he?s comfortable letting that happen. And you gotta listen to the tape.

The audio file has been on the San Francisco Chronicle?s website since the January interview with its editorial board, but Palin accused the newspaper of withholding the information until right before the election.

?Now a couple points on this: One is that here again, why is the audio tape just now surfacing? This interview was given to San Francisco folks many, many months ago. You should have known about this, so that you would have better decision-making information as you go into the voting booth,? Palin said as shouts of ?liberal media!? could be heard from the crowd.

Will the stupidity of this dipsht ever end?

 

[uclaLabrat]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: uclaLabrat

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Stops polluters dead in their tracks.

I like it.

Clean coal plants shouldn't have this issue.

How would clean coal stop this issue? I'm a little confused then on what clean coal entails. I'm pretty sure it means low sulfur grade coal, which would minimize acid rain. Anyone telling you that clean coal will reduce the CO2 output of said plant needs to take a chemistry class.

The coal doesn't have to be low sulfur. The plants have to have the right scrubbers though. dry scrubber systems are supposed to be preferable for low sulfur coal, and the best/most common choice for higher sulfur coal, is wet scrubber systems.

I'm not certain, but I think CO2 is part of a clean coal plant initiative too. There is a lot going on with carbon capture and storage technology relating to fossil fuel plants. One is turning it into sodium bicarbonate, another is using it for algae farms, and yet another application uses it to replace water for oil recovery. I think I saw on Modern Marvels where one company piping it to Canada had increased the oil production of the field from a few years using water, to approx. 15 years using the CO2.

They're using supercritical fluid extraction in oil fields now? haha...awesome!

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Obama will stop the economy dead in its tracks.

How so? Our economy is not dependent on how inefficient our energy infrastructure is. New requirements drive new innovations. You would prefer stagnation of invention?

Well alrighty then, YOU can pay 8 dollars a gallon for gas, only to line the pockets of the Libs, and then I bet, YOU'LL be *inventive*!!! Face it sweety, it's all about the money, YOUR MONEY!
LOOK at them, with their fur coats, huge mansions, private jets, and suv's, does the name Al Gore ring a bell? Here's just one example, when they sued the evil tobacco companies, do you really believe they were concerned about your health? BTW, John Edwards, (you remember him don't you?), made 31 million dollars on that one, IN JUST ONE WEEK!! now that's some kinda "change".
Wake up America!! I beg you

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: uclaLabrat


They're using supercritical fluid extraction in oil fields now? haha...awesome!

The algae farming is the thing that really interests me. Good for fertilizer and feed, and the power plant was substantially expanding their algae farm because it was working out so well. According to their spokesperson, it is turning into a great side-business.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Obama will stop the economy dead in its tracks.

How so? Our economy is not dependent on how inefficient our energy infrastructure is. New requirements drive new innovations. You would prefer stagnation of invention?

Well alrighty then, YOU can pay 8 dollars a gallon for gas, only to line the pockets of the Libs, and then I bet, YOU'LL be *inventive*!!! Face it sweety, it's all about the money, YOUR MONEY!
LOOK at them, with their fur coats, huge mansions, private jets, and suv's, does the name Al Gore ring a bell? Here's just one example, when they sued the evil tobacco companies, do you really believe they were concerned about your health? BTW, John Edwards, (you remember him don't you?), made 31 million dollars on that one, IN JUST ONE WEEK!! now that's some kinda "change".
Wake up America!! I beg you

Please tell me you don't live in Virginia. ROFL, you should look into working for SNL.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: uclaLabrat


They're using supercritical fluid extraction in oil fields now? haha...awesome!

The algae farming is the thing that really interests me. Good for fertilizer and feed, and the power plant was substantially expanding their algae farm because it was working out so well. According to their spokesperson, it is turning into a great side-business.

I don't know why they haven't genetically engineered e. coli to produce biodiesel yet. Put in a few genes, it starts pumping out arachidonic acid or some other long-chain fatty acid, and BAM! No muss, no fuss gas. Grow your own! Just make sure you wash your hands so you don't get the shits :-D