Obama's 12/6 Kansas speech

[OneOfTheseDays]

Good speech

 

[werepossum]

Lame obfuscation all around. Some of the prisoners have been held for 10 years, rendering the notion that "rushing their trials might be a problem" into an absurdity. There have been no trials because the govt can't make their case in anything short of a kangaroo court. Evidence? Hearsay & coerced confessions, almost exclusively, utterly inadmissible in what any rational person would consider to be a fair trial.

The rest? Obama needs to grow a pair. What'll they do to him, anyway? Impeach him? Pure fantasy. Take away his birthday? Have a snit? Whine a lot? Obstruct his initiatives any more than they already are?

So What?

There have been no civilian trials because these people were not taken in accordance with civilian laws. Demanding that they be tried in civilian courts is akin to demanding that they be tried in family court; civilian courts are not suited to trying people for acts of war. Where detainees could be tried civilly - for instance, the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber - they have been, under both Presidents. The first time Obama tried to use civilian courts to try someone for acts of war, the guy damn near walked - found guilty on only one count. And Obama himself said that even if found not guilty, he would not be released.

Both parties have tied Obama's hands by refusing to vote money to move Gitmo detainees to the States for civilian trials, so his only real choice is to release all the prisoners. If he does that, then yes, he will be impeached - and removed. And well he should be. Obama ran up against reality; civilian courts are a damned poor way to handle enemy combatants who are at war with us. Yes, he broke a campaign promise - because it was the least damaging thing he could do.

 

[Ausm]

Yes because mindless people like you salivate over Obama thinking he is some great man, when all he does it read his puppet masters words.

That sounds like the Right with Ronnie Raygun.

 

[Jhhnn]

There have been no civilian trials because these people were not taken in accordance with civilian laws. Demanding that they be tried in civilian courts is akin to demanding that they be tried in family court; civilian courts are not suited to trying people for acts of war. Where detainees could be tried civilly - for instance, the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber - they have been, under both Presidents. The first time Obama tried to use civilian courts to try someone for acts of war, the guy damn near walked - found guilty on only one count. And Obama himself said that even if found not guilty, he would not be released.

Both parties have tied Obama's hands by refusing to vote money to move Gitmo detainees to the States for civilian trials, so his only real choice is to release all the prisoners. If he does that, then yes, he will be impeached - and removed. And well he should be. Obama ran up against reality; civilian courts are a damned poor way to handle enemy combatants who are at war with us. Yes, he broke a campaign promise - because it was the least damaging thing he could do.

Still obfuscating. When we allow our govt to drop the requirement to make a case against accused persons, either in a civilian or military setting, we reject the principles this country supposedly represents, and endanger our own freedoms in the process.

Dance around it all you want. The govt is just running a shell game, because they don't have the goods, the honest evidence it would take to convict the vast majority of detainees of anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They never did, and dragging it out ad infinitum just makes it all the more obvious, except in the minds of believers.

It's even more remarkable that the believers are the same people who decry govt at every turn, have a more than healthy suspicion of it, until it comes to the idea of locking up the Terrarist Boogeymen. Then they'll believe anything they're told, never noticing that they hold mutually exclusive ideas with both being held to be true at the same time.

Dangerous terrorists? Stand them up in an open court of law, civilian or military, and prove it. That's the govt's obligation to us, to the People, and has been for over 200 years.

 

[sandorski]

Good speech.

 

[xBiffx]

Still obfuscating. When we allow our govt to drop the requirement to make a case against accused persons, either in a civilian or military setting, we reject the principles this country supposedly represents, and endanger our own freedoms in the process.

Dance around it all you want. The govt is just running a shell game, because they don't have the goods, the honest evidence it would take to convict the vast majority of detainees of anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They never did, and dragging it out ad infinitum just makes it all the more obvious, except in the minds of believers.

It's even more remarkable that the believers are the same people who decry govt at every turn, have a more than healthy suspicion of it, until it comes to the idea of locking up the Terrarist Boogeymen. Then they'll believe anything they're told, never noticing that they hold mutually exclusive ideas with both being held to be true at the same time.

Dangerous terrorists? Stand them up in an open court of law, civilian or military, and prove it. That's the govt's obligation to us, to the People, and has been for over 200 years.

The problem with your whole diatribe comes down the the point in your last sentence. The government has an obligation to the People, that being citizens of the US. The detainees at Gitmo are not the People and therefore the government isn't required to do shit for them. They aren't afforded any right to any court outside a military court hence the problem with what Obama tried and failed to do. Leave it to a military tribunal to decide their fates and be fucking done with it already. Enough of the political bullshit that has done nothing but create a shit storm for everyone involved. Nothing has been gained from any of this nonsense.

 

[spidey07]

Progressives correctly note, this is campaign season and predicted Obama will talk progressive to firm up his base. And that his actions have fallen short of his speeches.

But it's still much better to have Obama doing a half-ass progressive agenda than a Republican who is at war with the American people serving in the army of the 1%.

What was I saying about class warfare?

Bring it you fucking libtards. Bring it.

 

[hal2kilo]

What was I saying about class warfare?

Bring it you fucking libtards. Bring it.

You are so pathetically deluded. The wealthy are the ones who declared class warfare on us. Their patron saint is Ronald Reagon.

 

[spidey07]

You are so pathetically deluded. The wealthy are the ones who declared class warfare on us. Their patron saint is Ronald Reagon.

So bring it. I'll keep donating nice chunks of money to candidates who protect the status quo which is, from my view, pretty damn nice. I love my banks, corporations are great, I love my life and I LOVE capitalism. Try to take that away from me and you had better bring it big.

 

[First]

Perry WILL be your next president

Bump.