Obamacare delayed- To help elect democrats

[buckshot24]

I've read the Constitution, there isn't anything about being an Islamophobe in it.

There isn't anything about wiping your ass either.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't think you really help people by giving them stuff for free over an extended period of time. Sure, temporarily is fine but creating a level of dependency where they can't wipe their asses without help doesn't do anybody any good. Plus it wasn't like we didn't have a health care system in place to help the poor already. We could have done some tweaks with medicaid and gotten better results imo. This bill wasn't about that, it was about control. I can't wait to prove to the IRS that I had a prostate exam. Save your fucking receipts!

The problem with you is you want to help people YOUR way and anybody else just wants people to suffer. I'm sure you truly want to help them but I simply disagree with the method of help and I'm the asshole?

Each and every living American is the beneficiary of what you call "free stuff". Public roads, schools, air traffic control, parks, national forests, police, fire protection, pure food & drugs, national defense, so forth & so on.

Unfortunately, as national income has shifted radically to the tippy-top, and from work to investment, the ability of all too many people to actually get jobs, earn good money & contribute to that has been diminished. The so-called "Job Creators" ain't that, at all. As the old system of work & reward is further eroded by their efforts, other methods of distribution will be created to provide the population with reasonable shares of the bounty of this great country.

Don't like that? Take it up with the financial elite, the people who really make things the way they are, not the little people who increasingly have to scramble even harder for a diminishing share.

 

[buckshot24]

Each and every living American is the beneficiary of what you call "free stuff". Public roads, schools, air traffic control, parks, national forests, police, fire protection, pure food & drugs, national defense, so forth & so on.

That's not what I was talking about. You knew it.

Unfortunately, as national income has shifted radically to the tippy-top, and from work to investment, the ability of all too many people to actually get jobs, earn good money & contribute to that has been diminished. The so-called "Job Creators" ain't that, at all. As the old system of work & reward is further eroded by their efforts, other methods of distribution will be created to provide the population with reasonable shares of the bounty of this great country.

This tired old bullshit?

How many of our poor have 50 inch plasma tvs? Would you rather be poor in Cuba or in the USA? I've seen the poor in Cuba first hand and I doubt you'd like to live like the regular folk down there.

Don't like that? Take it up with the financial elite, the people who really make things the way they are, not the little people who increasingly have to scramble even harder for a diminishing share.

What I don't like is cocksuckers like you who think they have the right to steal from people who have worked their asses off to make something of themselves to give to those who haven't.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's not what I was talking about. You knew it.

It just isn't what you want to talk about, because we'd be talking about all the free shit you get, not whining about what you think others get.

This tired old bullshit?

How many of our poor have 50 inch plasma tvs? Would you rather be poor in Cuba or in the USA? I've seen the poor in Cuba first hand and I doubt you'd like to live like the regular folk down there.

Feel the need to duh-vert & deny?

What I don't like is cocksuckers like you who think they have the right to steal from people who have worked their asses off to make something of themselves to give to those who haven't.

Oh, you must be talking about the corporate coupon clippers with interests in subsidized farming who get middle class tax dollars by dint of inherited ownership. Or the few independent subsidized farmers still left who get the same. Or perhaps the financial lootocrats who were bailed out. Maybe the executives of right wing think tanks & evangelical preachers who suck money out of the Believers.

The only thing you appear to have made of yourself is an ass, one with the nerve to assert that billionaires work thousands of times harder than janitors, and that's why they deserve their money- Hard Work!

Perhaps we should only allow the financially successful access to national forests & public roads? Or police protection, sanitation, clean water, public schools & the rest, huh?

The reason, of course, that healthcare is moving from the private domain to the public domain is that private healthcare increasingly fails to live up to its promises. Fewer & fewer Americans have insurance coverage for the reasons I offered earlier. No amount of denial or name calling or your part will change the truth, other than in your True Believer sort of thinking.

 

[Matt1970]

Yep the ACA sucks. So who in congress is proposing a better system? No one? Then I'll take the ACA over what we had previously.

It was being proposed that the restrictions on state to state transactions be lifted. Insurance companies that previously had free reign over their state would now have more competition thus driving down prices. It seemed nothing short of a complete takeover would make the left happy.

 

[1prophet]

Don't see what the fuss is all about, just follow Walmarts example and everything will be alright.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/2013/06/14/obamacare-is-turning-walmart-workers-into-temps/

Walmart was a proponent of Obamacare and its increasingly clear why, the retailer is shifting health care costs and responsibility to the state. It’s creepy move that has a lot of people upset, but it’s not illegal.

A new hiring policy uncovered by Reuters shows that nearly half of its stores are only hiring part-time employees, thus avoiding the mandate to provide health care or pay a fine.

A Reuters survey of 52 stores run by the largest U.S. private employer in the past month, including one in every U.S. state, showed that 27 were hiring only temps, 20 were hiring a combination of regular full, part-time and temp jobs, and five were not hiring at all.
​

It’s company directive, according to sources interviewed by Reuters who asked to remain anonymous.

“Full-time people are getting slimmer and slimmer,” said a supervisor at a store in North Carolina, who asked not to be named, as did other store-level employees who were interviewed for this story, because she is not authorized to talk to the media.
She said that the five new employees hired this year at the store are all temps and hours of existing employees are being cut.
“Everybody who comes through the door I hire as a temporary associate,” said a store manager in Alaska, who asked not to be identified. “It’s a company direction at the present time.”​

And what's more amazing is all the fools that defend it because they think Obama care was for the people and not the corporations that wrote it for their benefit.:biggrin:

 

[ivwshane]

It was being proposed that the restrictions on state to state transactions be lifted. Insurance companies that previously had free reign over their state would now have more competition thus driving down prices. It seemed nothing short of a complete takeover would make the left happy.

That didn't address my question unless you are saying congress is currently debating this issue.

 

[glenn1]

Each and every living American is the beneficiary of what you call "free stuff". Public roads, schools, air traffic control, parks, national forests, police, fire protection, pure food & drugs, national defense, so forth & so on.

So because Teddy Roosevelt established a national park 100 years ago, you think that obliges the rest of us to support your preferred social welfare state by default? Or because we want gas tax money designated for road repair to be used for that purpose, that we should be forced to support Obamacare as well?

Unfortunately, as national income has shifted radically to the tippy-top, and from work to investment, the ability of all too many people to actually get jobs, earn good money & contribute to that has been diminished. The so-called "Job Creators" ain't that, at all. As the old system of work & reward is further eroded by their efforts, other methods of distribution will be created to provide the population with reasonable shares of the bounty of this great country.

Many people are unable to get jobs because they don't have skills that provide value to employers. We're not in the industrial revolution anymore, and we don't need to hire vast numbers of high-school dropouts to manufacture AMC Pacers anymore either.

Don't like that? Take it up with the financial elite, the people who really make things the way they are, not the little people who increasingly have to scramble even harder for a diminishing share.

Don't like what? That you think it's not only moral but commendable to take from the successful to give to others? Wow, if you think that's Obamacare's purpose then you really are a dumb bastard. The "little people who increasingly have to scramble for a diminishing share" are exactly those which Obamacare hurts worst. Your side expressly set up a system where the young and healthy poor are forced to pay for an insurance policy that's intentionally uneconomic for them to subsidize well-off older people to have lower rates than would be appropriate given medical underwriting.

 

[buckshot24]

It just isn't what you want to talk about, because we'd be talking about all the free shit you get, not whining about what you think others get.

What was that about "duh-vert"?

I don't get it for "free" either since I actually pay a shit ton more taxes than most people.

Feel the need to duh-vert & deny?

It's a fact that our "poor" is much better off than the "poor" in most countries. I've seen the poor in Cuba and they have it much worse than the poor here. By poor I mean doctors and lawyers. I met a guy who made 30 bucks a month.

Oh, you must be talking about the corporate coupon clippers with interests in subsidized farming who get middle class tax dollars by dint of inherited ownership.

Whatever that means. I'm not for farmer subsidies anyway.

Or the few independent subsidized farmers still left who get the same. Or perhaps the financial lootocrats who were bailed out.

I'm against those bailouts.

Maybe the executives of right wing think tanks & evangelical preachers who suck money out of the Believers.

Are you trying to say that giving the government taxes is voluntary?

The only thing you appear to have made of yourself is an ass, one with the nerve to assert that billionaires work thousands of times harder than janitors, and that's why they deserve their money- Hard Work!

I didn't claim anything of the sort dick head. I'm sure if you ever made something of yourself and created a business that provided value to millions of people you'd just give all of your money away, right?
Perhaps we should only allow the financially successful access to national forests & public roads? Or police protection, sanitation, clean water, public schools & the rest, huh?

But here's the thing that your left brain can't get. I can work my ass off cleaning my street with a toothbrush that doesn't make that work valuable.

Do you think there should be any difference in wages between a doctor and a janitor or even a burger flipper?

The reason, of course, that healthcare is moving from the private domain to the public domain is that private healthcare increasingly fails to live up to its promises. Fewer & fewer Americans have insurance coverage for the reasons I offered earlier. No amount of denial or name calling or your part will change the truth, other than in your True Believer sort of thinking.

I guess we'll see how popular this bullshit law will be when the public has to start paying some of those fines.

I name call you for my pure enjoyment, not to change facts.:awe:

 

[ivwshane]

I love the argument that justify things because they are better than what poor countries do. Funny how the argument isnt used in the reverse, you never hear, "the rich in the US are richer than anyone else in the world, we should change that".

Interesting logic.

 

[Jhhnn]

I love the argument that justify things because they are better than what poor countries do. Funny how the argument isnt used in the reverse, you never hear, "the rich in the US are richer than anyone else in the world, we should change that".

Interesting logic.

It's just the usual duh-version combined with self righteous chest thumping of White Privilege.

 

[IGBT]

the liberals want to import as much poverty from mexico as possible before they fully implement your obama care. That's what's really going on.

 

[Patranus]

Is there a better system? Or are you implying that our health care system was fine before ACA was passed?

Yes, the system in place was far better than what has resulted from ACA being passed.

 

[Jhhnn]

the liberals want to import as much poverty from mexico as possible before they fully implement your obama care. That's what's really going on.

Nonsensical gibberish from a seasoned conspiracy theorist.

It's Truthiness, reinforced by the absorption of decades of Rightwing propaganda.

A lie like that can't just be supported on its own- it requires a whole system of belief in falsehoods to have any appeal or traction at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, the system in place was far better than what has resulted from ACA being passed.

Yeh, that's why the number of uninsured people was going up and access to life saving care was going down-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917

It might have been better for you, and that's all that matters anyway, right? Or not, since we really don't know for sure how it'll work out.

It's all about you, of course.

 

[buckshot24]

I love the argument that justify things because they are better than what poor countries do. Funny how the argument isnt used in the reverse, you never hear, "the rich in the US are richer than anyone else in the world, we should change that".

Interesting logic.

Since nobody made that argument in the first place you just failed.

 

[buckshot24]

It's just the usual duh-version combined with self righteous chest thumping of White Privilege.

Fuck you.

 

[buckshot24]

Yeh, that's why the number of uninsured people was going up and access to life saving care was going down-

Now people can't choose to be uninsured. 20 somethings are really going to be taking it up the ass with this law.

 

[ivwshane]

Yes, the system in place was far better than what has resulted from ACA being passed.

According to what statistics?

 

[ivwshane]

Since nobody made that argument in the first place you just failed.

Lol so you weren't comparing how well off the poor in the US are to other countries?

 

[sactoking]

Now people can't choose to be uninsured. 20 somethings are really going to be taking it up the ass with this law.

There's nothing that forces the 20yo to buy insurance; the individual penalty is a weak nudge that can be easily bypassed. Hell, at some point someone is going to clue into the fact that the Cat plan is the best plan and you need to sign up before you age out so you can keep it forever.

 

[ivwshane]

Now people can't choose to be uninsured. 20 somethings are really going to be taking it up the ass with this law.

You mean the 26+ and something's right?

And how exactly will they be taking it up the ass? By paying a fine/tax for the lack of coverage? How much is that fine?

 

[buckshot24]

Lol so you weren't comparing how well off the poor in the US are to other countries?

That wasn't the argument I was making.

I love the argument that justify things because they are better than what poor countries do.

The point is that the system with the most well off "poor" is ours. You libfucks make it harder for the poor, not the rich ultimately.

 

[buckshot24]

You mean the 26+ and something's right?

And how exactly will they be taking it up the ass? By paying a fine/tax for the lack of coverage? How much is that fine?

People who don't want or need full coverage (20 somethings) will have to either get it OR pay increasingly stiff "fines/taxes".

 

[buckshot24]

There's nothing that forces the 20yo to buy insurance; the individual penalty is a weak nudge that can be easily bypassed.

Yeah for the first year. Then by 2016 they will have to pay a fine of $750 OR 2% of their income.