Obama to sign executive order on Immigration Reform

[NeoV]

I really don't see what all the commotion is about, other than the scary Democratic president did something we didn't come up with.

As for 'this president has shown he's not willing to enforce immigration laws', correct me if I'm wrong, but deportations are at an all-time hi under this president, aren't they?

Is expanding our technology and manpower at the southern border imaginary?

Every single thing either political side does or proposes is immediately shot down by the other side - often with completely fabricated talking points as backup, completely bypassing the 'for the common good' mantra that should be the first question we ask - not 'who came up with this'.

I firmly believe, for example, that if the producer/director of 'An Inconvenient Truth' was George Bush instead of Al Gore - we wouldn't be having the 'is the science settled' debates we have now, but with Gore involved - everyone on the right instantly became anti-science (of course the money from the Big Energy companies doesn't hurt either).

Sickening.

 

[OutHouse]

I've already explained to you how the bill adds enforcement

Its not a Bill, its a decree by the new monarch.

 

[IronWing]

Its not a Bill, its a decree by the new monarch.

Show us where the President's action is unlawful.

 

[highland145]

illegal immgrants hurt the poor and lower middle class. Also i would add in high school and college kids. When i was in high school you either worked on farms or fast food. good luck on that now. A buddy of mine owns 3 McDonalds. he says that he thinks the guys he hires are illegals but he can't prove it and nobody cares.

everify works and is required for businesses. Don't know if the govt backs up their bluster with a big stick or not but they would send me nasty grams if I was more than 3 days late reporting a new hire.

 

[Atreus21]

Show us where the President's action is unlawful.

Just because an act is lawful doesn't mean it's not outrageous. A president can legally pardon a convicted murderer, a rapist, or himself.

But hold on. If Reuters is correct:

Those undocumented residents could apply legally for jobs and join American society, but not vote or qualify for insurance under the president's healthcare law. The measure would apply to those who have been in the United States for at last five years.

An additional 270,000 people would be eligible for relief under the expansion of a 2012 move by Obama to stop deporting people brought illegally to the United States as children by their parents.

If this is the extent of the executive order, this isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

 

[boomerang]

Thoughts on the post?

As you're well aware of now, you're not going to get a response. You won't because you have very simply pointed out the major flaws in what Obama is doing.

Your post really highlights the flaws in thinking and then acting based on emotions. The left sees Obama's actions as the moral and right thing to do. Perhaps it is. But the people who entered our country illegally are not going to be contributors to society, the overwhelming majority of them are going to be a drag on society for some of the very reasons you pointed out. It eventually condenses down to at what point does the camel's back break? Anyone who expresses concern for that is a no good right wing, tea party, racist (the list goes on and on) for just trying to show that there is a flip side of this coin.

We can't run the nation on emotion. It has to be tempered with logic. But the left has somewhere along the line been taught that their emotion based logic is the only form that has any validity. Their logic is a take no prisoners, my way or the highway logic that they will gleefully cram down your throat because they know what's best for you. We as a society have to decide just how far we're going to let them go with that. That is really at the heart of this situation.

Do we let one branch of the government dictate how things are going to be done through intensification of processes built into the system? What executive decisions are too overarching in their proportions that they need to be reined in? The human psyche does not change all that much from adolescence to adulthood. If you can get away with this, there is a desire hard-wired into us to see if we can get away with that. Not all of us can control these impulses. Should politicians, many of whom seek office for power, financial gain and influence be allowed to escalate their methodologies basically unfettered? The answer seems obvious to me and it is of course that they should not.

We have an imperfect system of government that is based in checks and balances. Imperfect because perfection in government is not attainable. Politicians have through the power we have entrusted in them, given themselves ever increasing power. Where to draw the line is very important. If x President decrees this, what will an emboldened y President do? At some point do we put a stop to it or do we let it escalate until we have reverted back to a form of government the nation was founded upon to escape? Thoughts like these bring out the worst reactions from the left because along with basing decisions on emotion, they have little concern for the consequences of their actions.

Here's what we can know with certainty from what Obama expressed last evening. We know that he is a pathological liar that cannot control his lies. Based on that we know that what he outlined is the tip of the iceberg. We know that we only know a small portion of what he has planned. We know that however it plays out will be heavily tinged with lies and deceit. We know that it will cost the nation more than we will gain from it. Knowing all that, we had best hope that the Republican party has the balls to put a stop to him. They will not. Will our next President push the envelope based on desires not based in logic? Stay tuned.

 

[michal1980]

I really don't see what all the commotion is about, other than the scary Democratic president did something we didn't come up with.

As for 'this president has shown he's not willing to enforce immigration laws', correct me if I'm wrong, but deportations are at an all-time hi under this president, aren't they?

Is expanding our technology and manpower at the southern border imaginary?

deportations are up based on made up numbers.

 

[Atreus21]

As you're well aware of now, you're not going to get a response. You won't because you have very simply pointed out the major flaws in what Obama is doing.

Your post really highlights the flaws in thinking and then acting based on emotions. The left sees Obama's actions as the moral and right thing to do. Perhaps it is. But the people who entered our country illegally are not going to be contributors to society, the overwhelming majority of them are going to be a drag on society for some of the very reasons you pointed out. It eventually condenses down to at what point does the camel's back break? Anyone who expresses concern for that is a no good right wing, tea party, racist (the list goes on and on) for just trying to show that there is a flip side of this coin.

We can't run the nation on emotion. It has to be tempered with logic. But the left has somewhere along the line been taught that their emotion based logic is the only form that has any validity. Their logic is a take no prisoners, my way or the highway logic that they will gleefully cram down your throat because they know what's best for you. We as a society have to decide just how far we're going to let them go with that. That is really at the heart of this situation.

Do we let one branch of the government dictate how things are going to be done through intensification of processes built into the system? What executive decisions are too overarching in their proportions that they need to be reined in? The human psyche does not change all that much from adolescence to adulthood. If you can get away with this, there is a desire hard-wired into us to see if we can get away with that. Not all of us can control these impulses. Should politicians, many of whom seek office for power, financial gain and influence be allowed to escalate their methodologies basically unfettered? The answer seems obvious to me and it is of course that they should not.

We have an imperfect system of government that is based in checks and balances. Imperfect because perfection in government is not attainable. Politicians have through the power we have entrusted in them, given themselves ever increasing power. Where to draw the line is very important. If x President decrees this, what will an emboldened y President do? At some point do we put a stop to it or do we let it escalate until we have reverted back to a form of government the nation was founded upon to escape? Thoughts like these bring out the worst reactions from the left because along with basing decisions on emotion, they have little concern for the consequences of their actions.

Here's what we can know with certainty from what Obama expressed last evening. We know that he is a pathological liar that cannot control his lies. Based on that we know that what he outlined is the tip of the iceberg. We know that we only know a small portion of what he has planned. We know that however it plays out will be heavily tinged with lies and deceit. We know that it will cost the nation more than we will gain from it. Knowing all that, we had best hope that the Republican party has the balls to put a stop to him. They will not. Will our next President push the envelope based on desires not based in logic? Stay tuned.

In your opinion, should presidents have the power to make executive orders?

 

[michal1980]

Just because an act is lawful doesn't mean it's not outrageous. A president can legally pardon a convicted murderer, a rapist, or himself.

But hold on. If Reuters is correct:

Those undocumented residents could apply legally for jobs and join American society, but not vote or qualify for insurance under the president's healthcare law. The measure would apply to those who have been in the United States for at last five years.

An additional 270,000 people would be eligible for relief under the expansion of a 2012 move by Obama to stop deporting people brought illegally to the United States as children by their parents.

If this is the extent of the executive order, this isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Retuers needs to add in a 'For now'.

It wont be long before the dems are crying about how its not fair that these tax paying people cant vote, cant get benefits, etc etc. The fact they came into the country illegally doesn't matter to them.


Meanwhile Mexico is now going to charge America's for coming into the country:
http://www.10news.com/news/foreigners-us-citizens-charged-to-enter-mexico-11132014

 

[Bowfinger]

Its not a Bill, its a decree by the new monarch.

He's talking about the immigration bill that passed the Senate, but the House refused to address.

 

[zinfamous]

Just because an act is lawful doesn't mean it's not outrageous. A president can legally pardon a convicted murderer, a rapist, or himself.

agreed

If this is the extent of the executive order, this isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Well, it's hard to tell these days, with the hyper partisanship influencing the information flow. I was pretty upset about this myself, but if it's only ~300k people with an application towards gaining some standing, I don't see a problem with that.

I was still of the mind that some 5 million people were granted a 2 year amnesty....which is insane, obviously, but that's just what our Republican handlers have been shoving down our throats for the last week.

deportations are up based on made up numbers.

OK, how are they made up and please provide us your "real" numbers, Sparky.

 

[K1052]

Meanwhile Mexico is now going to charge America's for coming into the country:
http://www.10news.com/news/foreigners-us-citizens-charged-to-enter-mexico-11132014

A plan which has already been scrapped...

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov/18/immigration-otay-mesa-border-inspections-tijuana/

 

[Vdubchaos]

People are so naive

Think about it. They are reforming a law they have failed to exercise or follow.

They are not deporting....
They are still allowing illegals to get healthcare/social services
Licenses
And not going after businesses that employ them.

Law or reform is worthless if its not followed.

The real solution is taking away incentives.....but that would make sense.

Fact that they are making a big stink about this tells me that there is something major going on in the background.......meanwhile this will keep American's attention elsewhere.

Sounds to me like we are about to get bent over again......

Immigration reform my ass

 

[Remobz]

I know a hard working family that has been in the USA for at least 5 years and they want to pay their taxes and other such things.

My question is if they come out of "hiding" now can the Republicans do anything now or in the future that could backfire for them and get them deported? What can the Republicans do if anything to stop this?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Any meaningful immigration reform will have to include major fines/penalties for those who employ illegals and something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegals. Most important is that the government needs to enforce the laws on the books rather than ignore them.

 

[fskimospy]

It's interesting to watch conservatives freak out when Obama decides to act even remotely like conservatives keep urging their elected representatives to act.

 

[theeedude]

Any meaningful immigration reform will have to include major fines/penalties for those who employ illegals and something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegals. Most important is that the government needs to enforce the laws on the books rather than ignore them.

Government regulations on job creators? Tsk tsk.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Government regulations on job creators? Tsk tsk.

Yep including those who fund and support the left.

 

[PokerGuy]

As for 'this president has shown he's not willing to enforce immigration laws', correct me if I'm wrong, but deportations are at an all-time hi under this president, aren't they?

No, they are not, this has been debunked a million times before. The number presented appears higher, because they decided to change what they count as "deportations". Actual deportations as they had previously been counted/reported are actually down. The new metric was made to fool simple idiots (such as, apparently, yourself) into believing they were actually doing something.

 

[theeedude]

Looks like Boehner is finally going to do something on immigration.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/224982-boehner-house-will-act-to-stop-obama
Actually he is going to do something about Obama doing something on immigration, but hey, close enough

 

[theeedude]

No, they are not, this has been debunked a million times before. The number presented appears higher, because they decided to change what they count as "deportations". Actual deportations as they had previously been counted/reported are actually down. The new metric was made to fool simple idiots (such as, apparently, yourself) into believing they were actually doing something.

On the other hand, there were fewer illegals coming over during the financial crisis, so Obama actually was enforcing the laws much better in terms of likelihood of someone coming here illegally getting deported.
In any case, it looks like Republicans don't want to do anything until Obama or Democrats do it, only then GOP decides they want to do it their way instead. So we'll see where this goes.

 

[theeedude]

Yep including those who fund and support the left.

And the right.

 

[rpanic]

Why would middle class get squeezed if illegals are taking min wage jobs?

How do illegals squeeze the middle class?

Most illegals are uneducated/unskilled coming here for a better life knowing that they and their children will be able to take advantage of our schools and social services. The problem arises when so many come they never adapt and just bring all the problems they were escaping from. In Los Angeles they swamp an area don’t speak English have no ability to help their children or participate in their education and are too busy trying to survive to help their kids out at all. Once the schools hit more than 50% poor and none speaking English students the middle class leave the area this includes all races with the ability to leave. Block by block, city by city the middle class is pushed further and further out except for a few pockets and the cities they fled turn into a ghetto. Many of the children the illegals have resort to crime and welfare to survive since they never received a descent education and cannot compete, have children and repeat. Taxes have to be increased on all of the people that are able to pay taxes, hospitals raise prices on the people that can pay, people that do have children and have the ability go to private schools while also paying taxes for the public schools that are failing. All of the jobs done by teenagers and retired are taken over by unskilled adults that are now professional fast food, lawn care, paper delivery workers. Wages on all low and unskilled jobs are driven down.

Being pushed further and further out middle class leaves the state and moves to other states displacing and competing with local middle class and raising the cost of living. People in those cities complain about Californians screwing everything up but in reality they are just fleeing to better areas because they have given up on the idea that things will get better. California slowly turns into extreme pockets of wealthy and poor just like where all the illegals came from.

Don’t speak English its ok Americans will adapt for you. Can’t afford college its ok Americans will help you out even if you’re illegally here at the cost to Americans and their children. Can’t pay the hospital bill its ok, Americans will just increase how much they pay. Can’t get a driver’s license its ok we will change the law for you. Can’t afford to feed all of your kids Americans will pay for them. Want to get a higher paying job even though you are here illegally, ok we will let you now get a license to practice here, and finally eliminate the last middle class jobs.

You may not be affected now but your children and grandchildren probably will.

 

[Remobz]

How do illegals squeeze the middle class?

Most illegals are uneducated/unskilled coming here for a better life knowing that they and their children will be able to take advantage of our schools and social services. The problem arises when so many come they never adapt and just bring all the problems they were escaping from. In Los Angeles they swamp an area don’t speak English have no ability to help their children or participate in their education and are too busy trying to survive to help their kids out at all. Once the schools hit more than 50% poor and none speaking English students the middle class leave the area this includes all races with the ability to leave. Block by block, city by city the middle class is pushed further and further out except for a few pockets and the cities they fled turn into a ghetto. Many of the children the illegals have resort to crime and welfare to survive since they never received a descent education and cannot compete, have children and repeat. Taxes have to be increased on all of the people that are able to pay taxes, hospitals raise prices on the people that can pay, people that do have children and have the ability go to private schools while also paying taxes for the public schools that are failing. All of the jobs done by teenagers and retired are taken over by unskilled adults that are now professional fast food, lawn care, paper delivery workers. Wages on all low and unskilled jobs are driven down.

Being pushed further and further out middle class leaves the state and moves to other states displacing and competing with local middle class and raising the cost of living. People in those cities complain about Californians screwing everything up but in reality they are just fleeing to better areas because they have given up on the idea that things will get better. California slowly turns into extreme pockets of wealthy and poor just like where all the illegals came from.

Don’t speak English its ok Americans will adapt for you. Can’t afford college its ok Americans will help you out even if you’re illegally here at the cost to Americans and their children. Can’t pay the hospital bill its ok, Americans will just increase how much they pay. Can’t get a driver’s license its ok we will change the law for you. Can’t afford to feed all of your kids Americans will pay for them. Want to get a higher paying job even though you are here illegally, ok we will let you now get a license to practice here, and finally eliminate the last middle class jobs.

You may not be affected now but your children and grandchildren probably will.

What gets me is that I know some illegal families who work hard and do jobs that would be considered beneath Middle class people and even some legal poor Americans. I swear these are some hard working people and I dare to say more hard working that many legal people I know.

On the other hand, I see some black and white people idiot stoners and lazy bums who leech off the system and are a cancer upon American society. Why can't we deport these idiots and replace them with people that actually want to work and contribute.

I ask the question again, can the Republicans stop this? Could things be reversed in the future?

 

[trenchfoot]

Any meaningful immigration reform will have to include major fines/penalties for those who employ illegals and something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegals. Most important is that the government needs to enforce the laws on the books rather than ignore them.

I agree with you up to the point where existing laws should be enforced. Existing laws are flawed and full of holes that favor employers who wish to criminalize themselves by knowingly hiring illegals. New laws need to be made that corrects these flaws and allow for stiffer fines and penalties to the point where it just wouldn't make any sense at all to take a chance at hiring illegals.

It's my understanding that the way the laws are written now, it puts the onus on the gov't to provide the apparatus for verifying legal employment and lets the criminal employers get away with hiring illegals via the "hardships and difficulties of verifying legal standing for potential hires due to the complexities and vague language of the law". Just for the fact that millions of illegals are now gainfully employed is proof positive of that.

These "problems" can easily be rectified if the incoming Repub controlled Congress takes the initiative wrt applying clearly written simple language that employers will feel confident about enforcing at their level.

Is that wishful thinking? Absolutely. Will the Repub controlled Congress do anything near what I've offered? Absolutely not. Now that the shoe is on the other foot (prematurely speaking) The Repubs will now shift gears and completely ignore the REAL reason why illegals keep pouring over the border.

It's going to be "full steam ahead" on slamming Obama with why he hasn't closed the borders yet, fully ignoring the fact that the Repub controlled Congress can write laws to do just that and challenge Obama with it.

Writing laws that force employers into compliance who are willfully breaking the law claiming "vague and obscure language in present law" as their excuse is the most common sense and cheapest way to solve the immigration "problem" that the Repubs on the hill can push for, but who are up to this point in time blaming it all on Obama.

Well, the important point to make here is that even though legislation written by the upcoming Repub controlled Congress addressing the problem with the gaping loopholes the language of the law creates at present can and probably will be blocked by the Dems as "draconian, inhumane and will create more problems than it will solve", the Repub controlled Congress can do the same thing they did with continuously passing legislation to repeal the ACA to make their point. The Repub controlled Congress can continuously pass legislation going after those employers who break the law by exploiting illegals for personal gain.

Time to put up or shut up. But we all know what's going to happen aren't we? The Repub controlled Congress will do the same thing that Obama just did in his just now concluded executive (action or order?) speech: He completely ignored going after the employers of illegal immigrants.

There may be additional language in his "order" that addresses the "other side" of the immigration issue, but I didn't hear any of it in the speech he just made.