Obama to sign executive order on Immigration Reform

[IronWing]

FACT CHECK: Obama's claims on illegal immigration = http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-obamas-claims-illegal-immigration-081111034.html

You be the judge.

I read that article yesterday. It's more of a spin piece than a fact check article.

 

[Vic]

Wait, when did we actively enforce the law?

All along. ICE's budget alone is over $5 billion annually and they have over 15,000 border patrol and immigration agents working to secure the border and deport those already here illegally.
How much more do you think it will cost to both lock down the border completely AND deport all illegals? And is this really what you believe a small government to be?

 

[Vic]

We don't really know as it never happened!!!

Cost? EVERYTHING government does will have a HUGE cost attached to it.....so it doesn't really matter.

I'm sure we are currently paying up the ass for social services/healthcare for illegals!!!!

I like how suddenly cost doesn't matter now..

 

[K1052]

All along. ICE's budget alone is over $5 billion annually and they have over 15,000 border patrol and immigration agents working to secure the border and deport those already here illegally.
How much more do you think it will cost to both lock down the border completely AND deport all illegals? And is this really what you believe a small government to be?

IIRC, total estimated cost over 5 years was $250B plus ongoing enforcement costs in the $15-25B range per year. There is a double whammy though since several hundred billion dollars worth of economic activity would also vanish along with them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Has anyone cited a specific law broken by the President?
Don't see why he'd be limited within the confines that Congress has already outlined for his office.

I've not said that he has in this instance, nor am I saying that he's wrong in wanting changes in principle, which is why I expressed my concerns beyond him and this issue. A real problem is that Presidents can use their powers not only to enforce law but creatively subvert them into something to use as they see fit. That potential has been there but especially since 9/11 and I'm not a fan of that by any means. Since the genie is out of the bottle it's been painfully evident that the Executive Branch will not put it back in and it remains for Congress to do what it can to prevent excesses where possible.

 

[fskimospy]

Immigration isn't my "thing" but as far as executive power I'm not so sure it can't be limited. This is independent of whatever has gone on regarding this thread and immigration.

There are certainly times to complain about expansions of executive power under Obama. (Unilateral execution of American citizens!?!) This isn't one of them though. Conservatives don't like what he's doing but they have no way to stop it. So, their answer is to whip their base into a frenzy. People like werepossum were duped into buying their line yet again.

 

[Matt1970]

All along. ICE's budget alone is over $5 billion annually and they have over 15,000 border patrol and immigration agents working to secure the border and deport those already here illegally.
How much more do you think it will cost to both lock down the border completely AND deport all illegals? And is this really what you believe a small government to be?

Cheaper than feeding them and putting them on the government dole making said government even larger.

 

[Matt1970]

There are certainly times to complain about expansions of executive power under Obama. (Unilateral execution of American citizens!?!) This isn't one of them though. Conservatives don't like what he's doing but they have no way to stop it. So, their answer is to whip their base into a frenzy. People like werepossum were duped into buying their line yet again.

In your mind as long as he isn't killing anyone he can do whatever the hell he wants.

 

[fskimospy]

In your mind as long as he isn't killing anyone he can do whatever the hell he wants.

No, he's just well within the law here. If conservatives don't like the law, maybe they should pass a bill?

You guys seem to think that anything you don't like must be illegal or unconstitutional.

 

[K1052]

Cheaper than feeding them and putting them on the government dole making said government even larger.

Something that probably most people don't think about...what if their home country don't allow them to be repatriated? That's a real possibility since we're not talking about a small numbers of people. Also, what do you do with the dependents left behind who are American citizens?

 

[Leyawiin]

Also, what do you do with the dependents left behind who are American citizens?

If they were born to two parents in this country illegally strip them of their citizenship. They are the nationality of the parents. The 14th Amendment was never meant as a vehicle for anchor babies.

 

[K1052]

If they were born to two parents in this country illegally strip them of their citizenship. They are the nationality of the parents. The 14th Amendment was never meant as a vehicle for anchor babies.

You'd have to repeal or amend the 14th Amendment then by a separate act of law strip citizenship away from potentially millions of people ex post facto. Actions that are entirely without precedent in the history of the country. After you've created all these stateless people where do you send them? If they don't hold citizenship in the country their parents came from I highly doubt they would be granted it after the fact presuming said nations even permitted there return of the parents in the first place.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

All along. ICE's budget alone is over $5 billion annually and they have over 15,000 border patrol and immigration agents working to secure the border and deport those already here illegally.
How much more do you think it will cost to both lock down the border completely AND deport all illegals? And is this really what you believe a small government to be?

WRONG! There is no revenue generated in catching, and deporting those here illegally. Their new mission is to stop, harass, detain, search, fine, and jail US citizens. What do you suppose the Border Patrol is doing in the middle of Tennessee hmmmm? If the Border Patrol was really doing their job, and the government was really deporting, we would have at least 2 million less illegals here sucking our resources dry.

 

[Svnla]

You'd have to repeal or amend the 14th Amendment then by a separate act of law strip citizenship away from potentially millions of people ex post facto. Actions that are entirely without precedent in the history of the country. After you've created all these stateless people where do you send them? If they don't hold citizenship in the country their parents came from I highly doubt they would be granted it after the fact presuming said nations even permitted there return of the parents in the first place.

And that would be the US's problem how? Maybe then the ILLEGALS will stop and think twice of sneaking in here ILLEGALLY in hordes and hordes. No pain, no gain to solve this big mess.

See my link from Slate.com above with suggestions (post # 637). It will not be easy and fun but to give amnesty over and over again since 1980s will NOT solve this problem.

 

[K1052]

And that would be the US's problem how? Maybe then the ILLEGALS will stop and think twice of sneaking in here ILLEGALLY in hordes and hordes. No pain, no gain to solve this big mess.

See my link from Slate.com above with suggestions (post # 637). It will not be easy and fun but to give amnesty over and over again since 1980s will NOT solve this problem.

I want to know specifically what you would do if the required modifications to the constitution were made amending the 14th and allowing ex post facto government legal action were made. Presumably the states their parents are from would not allow them in even if their parents were permitted to return (I'm highly dubious about even this).

You have millions of stateless people in government custody and nobody will take them. What do you do?

 

[Vic]

Cheaper than feeding them and putting them on the government dole making said government even larger.

Oh no, we'll be doing that too, because the simple and obvious truth is that the border can never be completely secured, and we'll never be able to deport all of the illegals already here, no matter how much money and resources we throw at it.

 

[Vic]

If they were born to two parents in this country illegally strip them of their citizenship. They are the nationality of the parents. The 14th Amendment was never meant as a vehicle for anchor babies.

That pesky Constitution, eh?

 

[row]

Did Bush deport all illegals when he was president? Did Clinton? ...
The fact that people have to dig up Eisenhower as an example just confirms that there is a modern day bi-partisan consensus about not enforcing these immigration laws. Obama is just making it official.

"Because the Obama administration has blurred the lines of which agencies can take credit for deportations, the only fair way to assess their performance is to count all deportations done by all the DHS agencies. These are reported every year in the DHS Yearbook of Immigration Statistics in Table 39, which shows the number of 'removals' and 'returns' by all immigration enforcement agencies going back to 1927."



damn you're a dumbfuck

 

[theeedude]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...cuse-obama-of-treating-immigrants-like-humans

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—In a sharp Republican rebuke to President Obama’s proposed actions on immigration, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell accused the President, on Thursday night, of “flagrantly treating immigrants like human beings, in clear defiance of the wishes of Congress.”


McConnell was brutal in his assessment of the President’s speech on immigration, blasting him for “eliminating the fear of deportation, which is the great engine of the American economy.”

“Fear is what keeps immigrants working so hard and so fast and so cheap,” McConnell said. “Remove the fear of deportation, and what will immigrants become? Lazy Americans.”

 

[Victorian Gray]

If they were born to two parents in this country illegally strip them of their citizenship. They are the nationality of the parents. The 14th Amendment was never meant as a vehicle for anchor babies.

"According to PolitFact of the St. Petersburg Times, the immigration benefits of having a child born in the United States are limited. Citizen children cannot sponsor parents for entry into the country until they are 21 years of age, and if the parent had ever been in the country illegally, they would have to show they had left and not returned for at least ten years; however, pregnant and nursing mothers could receive free food vouchers through the federal WIC (Women, Infants and Children) program and enroll the children in Medicaid.[22]

Parents of citizen children who have been in the country for ten years or more can also apply for relief from deportation, though only 4,000 persons a year can receive relief status; as such, according to PolitFact, having a child in order to gain citizenship for the parents is "an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process."[22] Approximately 88,000 legal-resident parents of US citizen children were deported in the 2000s, most for minor criminal convictions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_baby#Immigration_status

 

[runzwithsizorz]

" having a child in order to gain citizenship for the parents is "an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process."
LOL, The vast majority of these people have no interest, or desire to become a true American citizen, and assimilate. They only wish not to be deported, and by having a child, or two, they are winning!

 

[chucky2]

I want to know specifically what you would do if the required modifications to the constitution were made amending the 14th and allowing ex post facto government legal action were made. Presumably the states their parents are from would not allow them in even if their parents were permitted to return (I'm highly dubious about even this).

You have millions of stateless people in government custody and nobody will take them. What do you do?

What needs to be done to permanently solve our illegal invasion problem is this:

1.) Militarily secure the border, with pre-authorized use of force. Camps for basing of Border Patrol/Military would need to be setup in the areas where intrusions most happen. Areas where intrusions are far less frequent can be patrolled by drones and interdictions made by them. People not able to be turned back or captured are simply destroyed upon illegal entry into the US. Whining is directed to the nation allowing illegal invaders to our southern border, that is, Mexico. Rather than allowing the illegal invasion to be a triple win for them, make it a negative so they help fix it.

2.) (can easily be done while #1 is being setup) Pass new amendment that overrides the 14th. This new amendment simply states that any child born to a US citizen, in good standing, anywhere in the world, is automatically a US citizen. A person born in the US that does not have at least one parent as a US citizen is not a US citizen.

3.) Once One and Two are both completed (not after, and not just one or the other), pass legislation dealing with the tens of millions of illegals here (the 12M number is laughable). My preference would be to deport them all, including US citizen minors of illegal parents - they can go be with their illegal parents in Mexico until they're 18, and then choose to come back here or not. Recognizing that a sufficient sheeple number of our populous is too PC to take this approach, my compromise (and it's a massive compromise) is to allow the illegals to remain in temp guest worker status as they take their place in line with all the other people legally trying to enter the US. Their penance for entering and staying here as illegals will be that, and it is getting off pretty lightly IMO.

Chuck

 

[Vic]

What needs to be done to permanently solve our illegal invasion problem is this:

1.) Militarily secure the border, with pre-authorized use of force. Camps for basing of Border Patrol/Military would need to be setup in the areas where intrusions most happen. Areas where intrusions are far less frequent can be patrolled by drones and interdictions made by them. People not able to be turned back or captured are simply destroyed upon illegal entry into the US. Whining is directed to the nation allowing illegal invaders to our southern border, that is, Mexico. Rather than allowing the illegal invasion to be a triple win for them, make it a negative so they help fix it.

2.) (can easily be done while #1 is being setup) Pass new amendment that overrides the 14th. This new amendment simply states that any child born to a US citizen, in good standing, anywhere in the world, is automatically a US citizen. A person born in the US that does not have at least one parent as a US citizen is not a US citizen.

3.) Once One and Two are both completed (not after, and not just one or the other), pass legislation dealing with the tens of millions of illegals here (the 12M number is laughable). My preference would be to deport them all, including US citizen minors of illegal parents - they can go be with their illegal parents in Mexico until they're 18, and then choose to come back here or not. Recognizing that a sufficient sheeple number of our populous is too PC to take this approach, my compromise (and it's a massive compromise) is to allow the illegals to remain in temp guest worker status as they take their place in line with all the other people legally trying to enter the US. Their penance for entering and staying here as illegals will be that, and it is getting off pretty lightly IMO.

Chuck

Repeal posse comitatus, pass a constitutional amendment, and forcibly relocate millions of people. So easy!
And of course, we can defend on government to do all of this cheaply, effectively, and without accidentally deporting any legal citizens, right?

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Repeal posse comitatus, pass a constitutional amendment, and forcibly relocate millions of people. So easy!
And of course, we can defend on government to do all of this cheaply, effectively, and without accidentally deporting any legal citizens, right?

lol@forcibly deporting millions of American citizens. And they call Obama the secret authoritarian commie.

 

[werepossum]

No, he's just well within the law here. If conservatives don't like the law, maybe they should pass a bill?

You guys seem to think that anything you don't like must be illegal or unconstitutional.

Sometimes I really wonder if you're actually that stupid or merely stupid enough to believe we're that stupid. Obama is blatantly doing the opposite of the law, and your "solution" is for Republicans to pass another law. Obama has by his own words set himself up as Emperor. Laws are thus immaterial, except to the extent (if any) he is reigned in by SCOTUS. He has four solid votes for pretty much anything he wants to do; ergo his power is limited only by the will of Anthony Kennedy. Another law would do exactly nothing - you're merely parroting his talking point that if the Republicans don't like him doing the opposite of the law, then they should pass a law in line with what he is doing.

What needs to be done to permanently solve our illegal invasion problem is this:

1.) Militarily secure the border, with pre-authorized use of force. Camps for basing of Border Patrol/Military would need to be setup in the areas where intrusions most happen. Areas where intrusions are far less frequent can be patrolled by drones and interdictions made by them. People not able to be turned back or captured are simply destroyed upon illegal entry into the US. Whining is directed to the nation allowing illegal invaders to our southern border, that is, Mexico. Rather than allowing the illegal invasion to be a triple win for them, make it a negative so they help fix it.

2.) (can easily be done while #1 is being setup) Pass new amendment that overrides the 14th. This new amendment simply states that any child born to a US citizen, in good standing, anywhere in the world, is automatically a US citizen. A person born in the US that does not have at least one parent as a US citizen is not a US citizen.

3.) Once One and Two are both completed (not after, and not just one or the other), pass legislation dealing with the tens of millions of illegals here (the 12M number is laughable). My preference would be to deport them all, including US citizen minors of illegal parents - they can go be with their illegal parents in Mexico until they're 18, and then choose to come back here or not. Recognizing that a sufficient sheeple number of our populous is too PC to take this approach, my compromise (and it's a massive compromise) is to allow the illegals to remain in temp guest worker status as they take their place in line with all the other people legally trying to enter the US. Their penance for entering and staying here as illegals will be that, and it is getting off pretty lightly IMO.

Chuck

Works for me. Historically when we've shut down immigration, the immigrants have integrated in roughly a generation. That might not work here as there are a lot of Mexicans raised on the "reconquista" rhetoric - including some of those raised here - but it's certainly worth a try.

lol@forcibly deporting millions of American citizens. And they call Obama the secret authoritarian commie.

Um, illegals aren't American citizens, sunshine. Please try to keep up.