Obama to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan

[ShawnD1]

Incorrect. There are well over 75,000 deployable troops at present.

So if your hand picked general requests 60,000 troops with a MINIMUM of 40,000 and you send 30,000 you are setting the mission up for failure.

This sounds very familiar. link.

"The idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces I think is far off the mark," Mr. Rumsfeld said. General Shinseki gave his estimate in response to a question at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Tuesday: "I would say that what's been mobilized to this point — something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers — are probably, you know, a figure that would be required." He also said that the regional commander, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, would determine the precise figure.

A spokesman for General Shinseki, Col. Joe Curtin, said today that the general stood by his estimate. "He was asked a question and he responded with his best military judgment," Colonel Curtin said. General Shinseki is a former commander of the peacekeeping operation in Bosnia.

Politician calls in expert, expert gives a somewhat accurate estimate, politician completely ignores the estimate, expert turns out to be right, politician looks like an idiot. Obama is doing the exact same thing that happened less than a decade ago. At this point we should probably just assume that anything a politician does is completely wrong and is likely to fail

 

[Lemon law]

News flash: We won the first gulf war quite decisively, thank you. The current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are yet to be decided.

You sure lack faith in the United States...sad.

Also I don't know what speech you were listening to, but laying out a multi-pronged strategy is EXACTLY what the Commander in Chief did tonight.

Perhaps you were out having a tinkle?

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I nominate feralkid for the most clueless poster yet on this thread.

Yes, we won gulf war one because it had the singular objective of kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. A mission the coalition of the willing accomplished very well. Once that limited mission was accomplished, we got the hell out. It did not fix any Saddam problems but we still got out.

The US military, almost all by its lonesome, preformed even more brilliantly in Iraq and Afghanistan. Once the troops hit the ground in Gulf war two, the US military occupied Baghdad in a week, it took only a little longer in Afghanistan, but we had Al-Quida and the Taliban chased out of Afghanistan in short order.

But under GWB, once the total military win was accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan, we had the delusion that we could fix anything by staying. Certainly a laudable objective, but suddenly the mission changes to a military occupation and winning the peace. And sadly, conducting military occupation is something that we totally suck at.

And therein lies the feralkid delusion, winning a war and winning a military occupation are two totally different things taking two totally different skill sets.

I almost hate to cite palehorse, but he is correct in noting that Obama lacks the required multifaceted approach needed to address the range of Afghan problems.

And if we can't fix the problems in a military occupation why are we staying? And if the military can't fix any long range problems by merely beating the shit out of some hapless country, why do we intervene in the first place? All we do is take a small man out and whup em, ego satisfying to any bully, but does it fix anything?

 

[PJABBER]

Double your pleasure, double your fun, another double post!

 

[PJABBER]

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I nominate feralkid for the most clueless poster yet on this thread.

Yes, we won gulf war one because it had the singular objective of kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. A mission the coalition of the willing accomplished very well. Once that limited mission was accomplished, we got the hell out. It did not fix any Saddam problems but we still got out.

The US military, almost all by its lonesome, preformed even more brilliantly in Iraq and Afghanistan. Once the troops hit the ground in Gulf war two, the US military occupied Baghdad in a week, it took only a little longer in Afghanistan, but we had Al-Quida and the Taliban chased out of Afghanistan in short order.

But under GWB, once the total military win was accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan, we had the delusion that we could fix anything by staying. Certainly a laudable objective, but suddenly the mission changes to a military occupation and winning the peace. And sadly, conducting military occupation is something that we totally suck at.

And therein lies the feralkid delusion, winning a war and winning a military occupation are two totally different things taking two totally different skill sets.

I almost hate to cite palehorse, but he is correct in noting that Obama lacks the required multifaceted approach needed to address the range of Afghan problems.

And if we can't fix the problems in a military occupation why are we staying? And if the military can't fix any long range problems by merely beating the shit out of some hapless country, why do we intervene in the first place? All we do is take a small man out and whup em, ego satisfying to any bully, but does it fix anything?

Lemon Law is right, up to a point.

Winning a shooting war is something the U.S. has gotten down pat.

Winning a military occupation and accomplishing nation building, however, is very different and very tough. It requires national will and the will of national leadership. It takes a long time and mucho resources.

Afghanistan is not worth much to the U.S. or to anyone else other than those willing to endure poverty and deprivation of all types. Is there a strategic point to the task at hand?

Personally, I do believe the U.S. is capable of working miracles of a type and all you have to do is look at Germany and Japan to see what kind. The only thing we are lacking now is a national leadership that believes this and is willing to commit what it takes. What we are likely to get is short changed and wasteful.

The Obama speech was very nice. But throughout I never got the impression he believed anything he was saying. And the number of cadets that were nodding off during the speech spoke volumes.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Bush inherited the problem of Afghanistan from Clinton not to mention that a country was ready to hand over Bin-Ladin but Clinton was too busy getting a blowjob.

Round and round the blame game goes, where it stops no body knows.

The blame game stops at the republican parties hero, Ronald Reagan. He funneled billions of dollars to the mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan to combat the invading Soviet Union. Gorbachev finally agreed to an exit strategy which stated that they would pull out troops if we stopped arms shipments to the rebels.

Reagan opposed this deal, which unfortunately lead to a massive Soviet attack on one of the Jihads new compounds. One of the leaders stationed at this compound happened to be Osama Bin Laden. After this battle he was labeled a war hero and began recruiting for his cause.

Gorbachev saw the possible threat that the Taliban and Al Qaeda posed...Reagan and Bush Sr. completely ignored it. Clinton did try, but failed.

 

[piasabird]

O'Bamma can not order 30,000 troops into Iraq without Republican support. The republicans should just tell him to vote down the health care bill and we will vote yes. Otherwise just vote no. I dont think he can get enough Democrats in the Senate to vote yes on his side.

 

[nageov3t]

O'Bamma can not order 30,000 troops into Iraq without Republican support. The republicans should just tell him to vote down the health care bill and we will vote yes. Otherwise just vote no. I dont think he can get enough Democrats in the Senate to vote yes on his side.

he's the commander in chief... assuming dems aren't going to stop or even trim war funding (because, come on), can't he just do it?

 

[Zorkorist]

This is what I've been saying for months and the left and right in this forum say it is too tough.

If we raze Afghanistan to the ground, we won't have to worry about Al Qaeda, the Tally-ban, Pakistan nukes, Opium, or rebuilding that God-forsaken shit hole.

"Afghanistan - graveyard of empires"

Should be turned into: "Afghanistan - graveyard of all Afghans"

We are to that point. As others have said, no one wins Afghanistan. The Russians failed, and in eight years of all out war, we have failed.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, border, should be lit up in big red balloons.

For once, let the Muslims know we are serious.

 

[UberNeuman]

We are to that point. As others have said, no one wins Afghanistan. The Russians failed, and in eight years of all out war, we have failed.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, border, should be lit up in big red balloons.

For once, let the Muslims know we are serious.

Go N
there is a mailbox
open mailbox
there is a letter for you

Read letter
letter reads: "you fail at reality."

Go S
There is a never-ending pit of darkness
jump in.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

This is what I've been saying for months and the left and right in this forum say it is too tough.

If we raze Afghanistan to the ground, we won't have to worry about Al Qaeda, the Tally-ban, Pakistan nukes, Opium, or rebuilding that God-forsaken shit hole.

"Afghanistan - graveyard of empires"

Should be turned into: "Afghanistan - graveyard of all Afghans"

Yeah....lets just kill millions of innocent people to destroy a couple of small extremist groups. What a sound plan.

 

[Zorkorist]

Go N
there is a mailbox
open mailbox
there is a letter for you

Read letter
letter reads: "you fail at reality."

Go S
There is a never-ending pit of darkness
jump in.

[fancy jingle]
You have Mail!
[fancy jingle]

Aren't you excited.

 

[Zorkorist]

Yeah....lets just kill millions of innocent people to destroy a couple of small extremist groups. What a sound plan.

By small extremist groups, are you talking about the belief that an eye for an eye?

Or, are you talking about the few that believe that women should be seen and not heard?

Or the few that believe you must pray five times a day?

 

[UberNeuman]

[fancy jingle]
You have Mail!
[fancy jingle]

Aren't you excited.

By your moron opine of dropping nukes, no... not really...

 

[theflyingpig]

Yeah....lets just kill millions of innocent people to destroy a couple of small extremist groups. What a sound plan.

Sounds good to me. I mean really, what would happen to the world if Afghanistan were to be wiped off the map? Less drugs. Less terrorists. Afghanistan does not contribute anything positive to the world. Why should anyone care if it is destroyed?

 

[UberNeuman]

Sounds good to me. I mean really, what would happen to the world if Afghanistan were to be wiped off the map? Less drugs. Less terrorists. Afghanistan does not contribute anything positive to the world. Why should anyone care if it is destroyed?

I'm sure the 911 attackers felt the same...

\you must feel swell to be in their ranks...

 

[theflyingpig]

I'm sure the 911 bombers felt the same...

\you must feel swell to be in their ranks...

I'm sure you're wrong. The 9/11 bombers wanted to bring the world down to the stone age standard of Islam. They were frustrated that they came from a region that can't even properly govern itself. They felt that, instead of bringing their countries up to the standards of the modern world, they must bring the modern world down to the standards of Islam. You see, UberNeuman, the entire muslim world is angry at the wests success. Their leaders use religion to brainwash the masses into committing horrible acts of violence against their enemies. This is not something that can be remedied through foolishness like diplomacy, no, the only way to rid the world of a vile ideology is to remove all those who believe it. It's the only way. Everyone knows this.

 

[Zorkorist]

Islam, as are most Religions, is a least common denominator thing.

They find people not willing to believe in themselves, and their potential, and exploit them.

The only difference is that Islam is exploiting people to death.

 

[Hacp]

Outrageous speech by obama. First, he pledged to commit billions more in taxpayer dollars to.. Pakastan!!!!! Next, he sends 30,000 troops to Afghanistan. Guess how much money that'll waste? And how will he pay for all this? By taxing us or borrowing from China! No wonder he played so nice with the Chinese during his trip a few weeks back. I nominate him for Worst President Ever.

 

[UberNeuman]

I'm sure you're wrong. The 9/11 bombers wanted to bring the world down to the stone age standard of Islam. They were frustrated that they came from a region that can't even properly govern itself. They felt that, instead of bringing their countries up to the standards of the modern world, they must bring the modern world down to the standards of Islam. You see, UberNeuman, the entire muslim world is angry at the wests success. Their leaders use religion to brainwash the masses into committing horrible acts of violence against their enemies. This is not something that can be remedied through foolishness like diplomacy, no, the only way to rid the world of a vile ideology is to remove all those who believe it. It's the only way. Everyone knows this.

hahaaaaa..... ah, how lovely...

You're just like them... just another zealot......

 

[Zorkorist]

Outrageous speech by obama. First, he pledged to commit billions more in taxpayer dollars to.. Pakastan!!!!! Next, he sends 30,000 troops to Afghanistan. Guess how much money that'll waste? And how will he pay for all this? By taxing us or borrowing from China! No wonder he played so nice with the Chinese during his trip a few weeks back. I nominate him for Worst President Ever.

He couldn't even pronounce Pakistan right.

Mr. President. If you want to attack Pakistan, at least pronounce their name right.

If you are just going to be wishy washy on everything, you pronounced their name perfectly.

 

[Zorkorist]

hahaaaaa..... ah, how lovely...

You're just like them... just another zealot......

You do realize being a Zealot, is not wrong?

Driving a plane into the WTC is wrong. Blowing yourself up in a marketplace, is wrong. Treating women like they are beneath you is wrong. Stoning girls that are deemed adulterers is wrong.

But, being a zealot is OK.

Do you understand that?

 

[theflyingpig]

You do realize being a Zealot, is not wrong?

Driving a plane into the WTC is wrong. Blowing yourself up in a marketplace, is wrong. Treating women like they are beneath you is wrong. Stoning girls that are deemed adulterers is wrong.

But, being a zealot is OK.

Do you understand that?

Exactly. This is what the fools just can't seem to understand. Our enemies rape, murder, and torture all in the name of religion. This only goes to show how barbaric they are. Even though they do all of these things, people will still stand up and defend them. "Not all muslims are like that" they say. Well I say, enough of them are. Enough muslims allow and participate in these acts of cruelty. The rest just accept it. Sad, but true.

 

[palehorse]

News flash: We won the first gulf war quite decisively, thank you. The current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are yet to be decided.

You sure lack faith in the United States...sad.

Also I don't know what speech you were listening to, but laying out a multi-pronged strategy is EXACTLY what the Commander in Chief did tonight.

Perhaps you were out having a tinkle?

Battles are easy, wars are not. Golf War I was essentially an extended battle, or a series of smaller battles along a front, nothing more. We left the majority of Saddam's forces, resources, cities, and other elements of his powerbase alone and capable of fighting another day. All we did was push him back beyond a line in the sand, nothing more.

We haven't won a real war since WWII. Every war since has been half-fought by the pole-smoking assholes and bitches in Washington. The entire concept of making a commitment to victory has been lost. Everyone back home, including the civilians in the polls, don't have the fucking stomach to do what it takes to win anymore.

I've been fighting in these wars for most of the last decade, and I'm not at all impressed with the results of any of them. In Iraq, we're simply holding our breath and hoping the Iraqis can make it on their own once we leave. In Afghanistan, our forces have never been given the tools and resources we need to succeed -- this latest "surge" included.

I have a tremendous amount of faith in the American fighting men and women, and in the technology we have on the modern battlefield; however, I have absolutely no faith at all in Joe Civilian or the politicians in D.C. Both of which, on the whole, lack the will and tenacity to follow-through, sacrifice, and ultimately support genuine victory in these modern wars.

From the very beginning most of us knew that Afghanistan would take decades; but, here we are, less than one decade into the fight, and already the majority of the people back home are ready to throw in the towel.

At the same time, neither Bush or Obama understand what total commitment to victory actually requires. For both of them, these wars have been treated like weekend hobbies that they really don't give a fuck about. Both of them fail to understand that when a Nation goes to war, EVERYTHING ELSE IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLACED ON HOLD UNTIL REAL VICTORY IS ACHIEVED AND OUR ARMIES COME HOME! The entire Nation should unite as one do everything it must do to win the war.

Anything less than that level of commitment by EVERYONE is fucking bullshit. If it's foing to be nothing more than the 4th or 5th priority on the Presidents' lists, then bring all the troops home now and let the Presidents' find a new fucking hobby that doesn't involve dead soldiers.

A measly 30,000 additional troops for a whopping 18 months?!

FUCCCKKKKK YOU D.C.! AND FUCK YOU TO ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THIS NEVER-ENDING HALF-ASSED BULLSHIT BEING SERVED UP BY D.C.! FUCK YOU AND YOUR HALF-FOUGHT WARS! MANY OF YOU ARE NOT EVEN WORTH FIGHTING FOR ANYMORE. YOU'RE JUST A BUNCH OF WORTHLESS, SPOILED, WHINY, LATTE-SIPPING FUCKS WHO THINK YOU HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO THAN SUPPORTING YOUR COUNTRY IN ALL-OUT VICTORY AGAINST OUR ENEMIES. I'D SOONER PISS ON YOU THAN DIE FOR YOU.

SERIOUSLY, FUCK YOU.

/rant off.

 

[Zorkorist]

Which is a great point... you nuke the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then ask our boys to clear it.

They'll have a lot better time clearing it after the nukes have kicked in.

 

[Patranus]

The blame game stops at the republican parties hero, Ronald Reagan. He funneled billions of dollars to the mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan to combat the invading Soviet Union. Gorbachev finally agreed to an exit strategy which stated that they would pull out troops if we stopped arms shipments to the rebels.

Reagan opposed this deal, which unfortunately lead to a massive Soviet attack on one of the Jihads new compounds. One of the leaders stationed at this compound happened to be Osama Bin Laden. After this battle he was labeled a war hero and began recruiting for his cause.

Gorbachev saw the possible threat that the Taliban and Al Qaeda posed...Reagan and Bush Sr. completely ignored it. Clinton did try, but failed.

FDR, the Soviet Union, and the start of the Cold War.

Round and round we go, where the blame game stops nobody knows...
(The point is you can't blame anyone)