Obama to make announcement on Cuba policy at 12est

[unixwizzard]

Seems like everyone lost their collective minds after 911.

no that actually started before that.. I am of the belief that they lost their minds when Saddam tried to have daddy Bush killed ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm ).

9/11 was just the excuse they were looking for.

If you recall, within hours of the attack, before they even had the slightest idea who was behind it, Rumsfeld's first suggestion was to start bombing Iraq. That idea was shot down then, but it didn't really take them that long to start banging the drum pushing to invade Iraq.

 

[who?]

According to ABC news Pope Francis pushed for this.

 

[Vic]

According to ABC news Pope Francis pushed for this.

Yaknow, sometimes he makes this jack Mormon want to convert to catholicism.

 

[Zorba]

You're too stupid to see that it's possible to agree with an action but oppose how it was done. When are you dumbasses going to realize that the more he pushes the limits on executive orders, unchecked, the more power he's giving to future administrations? The ends don't justify the means when it comes to this level of politics.

Not sure what limits he is pushing here, but I do agree I am against the expansion of executive powers. But when congress refused to do anything for 6 years, what other options are there? Write your congressmen and tell them to stop the obstruction and actually legislate and Obama wouldn't be forced into doing it alone all the time.

 

[ivwshane]

Ahh, the chorus of partisan twats, all ready and willing to lick Obama's ass. Too ignorant to see how shithead Obama is unbalancing the gov't. Wait until someone you aren't blowing takes office, then we'll see how happy you are.




Who said I'm just talking about immigration, you stupid shill.

Not only did this moron not address the question but he also moved the goal post!


To be this stupid you must be taking classes! Is there a class you right wing idiots must attend every month? Because you righties are some of the dumbest people I've ever met and I've met some pretty stupid people!

 

[MagickMan]

Not sure what limits he is pushing here, but I do agree I am against the expansion of executive powers. But when congress refused to do anything for 6 years, what other options are there? Write your congressmen and tell them to stop the obstruction and actually legislate and Obama wouldn't be forced into doing it alone all the time.

Finally, someone with a little sense. Yes, it's shitty that congress was tied up, for the most part, but it doesn't excuse what he's done, the ends do not justify the means, especially not in that office. What do you think will happen the next time a Republican president is gridlocked by a Democratic congress? You think he won't follow the cues from this administration and just write off whatever he (or she) wants? Maybe edit a law after it's passed, to save some time? Say it's for expedience and the common good. Obama is writing checks this nation can't cash (no, I'm not talking about actual checks, though that's an issue too), and we'd all better hope the courts step on his neck, hard.

 

[MagickMan]

Not only did this moron not address the question but he also moved the goal post!


To be this stupid you must be taking classes! Is there a class you right wing idiots must attend every month? Because you righties are some of the dumbest people I've ever met and I've met some pretty stupid people!

Go fuck yourself, I've never voted for a GOP presidential candidate in my life, douchebag. Two time Clinton voter here. I can't help that you're too pathetic to see how badly the presidential office and balance of powers are fucked up, but I'm sure you'll be bitching when the other side takes advantage of it.

 

[MagickMan]

Your hatred is irrational and your position on this issue absurd.

The Executive branch has *always* had the authority to establish diplomatic relations with other nations. That's all that's being done. The Constitution & tradition assign that to the Executive w/o qualification.



Article 2 section 3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Treaties

Obviously, the President chooses who those might be.

The President's power wrt foreign relations has been upheld repeatedly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Curtiss-Wright_Export_Corp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwater_v._Carter

Your Chicken Little routine is quite comical, anyway.

How cute, you think this is still about foreign relations? He doesn't plan on congress approving a treaty with Cuba.

 

[Vic]

Not sure what limits he is pushing here, but I do agree I am against the expansion of executive powers. But when congress refused to do anything for 6 years, what other options are there? Write your congressmen and tell them to stop the obstruction and actually legislate and Obama wouldn't be forced into doing it alone all the time.

Actually, this argument is completely unnecessary. The Constitution has *always* given the President the ability to negotiate with foreign nations prior to seeking Congressional approval.

 

[sportage]

See... Obama is a good president.
When given the chance, he knows right from wrong.
Just imagine our America if we had a congress, a right wing media, that opted in instead of opting out for progress?

And you realize how this must piss off Putin.
He considered Cuba on his team.
This further isolates Putin and his Soviet Union from the rest of the world.
Wouldn't it be the icing on the cake if this lead to the fall of Putin?
Eventually his people will get tired of him. And wish to move on.

When you consider the republicans, their outrage and their wish to turn the clock back on anything and everything progressive. And not liberal politics progressive, but rather progression with moving forward.
Life is meant to grow, not shrink. To progress, not regress. To proceed, not receded.

Be it healthcare, immigration, environment, education, equality, or even Cuba, the theory of life in itself is to advance and go forward.
Those that would resist are acting against our very nature itself.
Try as they may to regress and resist growth, they will never succeed in the end.

Our efforts with Cuba will succeed, despite resistance.
Our efforts with healthcare will succeed, despite resistance.
Our efforts with equality will succeed, despite resistance.
And like with a child, every effort to grow will succeed.

Within all of nature, that is the law.
To grow. To expand. To advance.
For those that would resist growth, act against nature, they will never succeed regardless of all the noise they might make.

Cuba as just the latest example.
And once again, republican resistance the act of fools.
But nothing new in that....
.
.

 

[michal1980]

The real explosion of the use of executive action aka presidential memoranda use was in the Bush administration, and to a (much) lesser extent, the Clinton administration. Executive memoranda use was extremely limited up until then. It's true that Obama's use of it is a historic high but in terms of percentage growth over predecessors Bush Jr over Clinton eclipses it handily. Hell even Cheney seemed like a reasonable guy in the 80s. Seems like everyone lost their collective minds after 911. Bin Laden in many ways was successful in his attack against the US and using tried and true anti-empire tactics since the days of the Roman Empire, lol.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...idential-memoranda-executive-orders/20191805/

Obamas use of memoranda has exploded.

 

[Jhhnn]

How cute, you think this is still about foreign relations? He doesn't plan on congress approving a treaty with Cuba.

And now the deliberately obtuse routine. Highly predictable.

If you want to talk about diplomatic recognition of Cuba, this is the place, and my remarks were directed towards that. Check the thread title. The President, *any* President, has the Constitutional authority to do that wrt any nation. Period. We have diplomatic relations with many countries w/o reciprocal treaties of any sort.

If you want to talk about something else, find or start an appropriate thread.

The trade embargo against Cuba was established by legislative action & executive approval, making it a different although related matter. Obama has asked Congress to lift that embargo & awaits their decision. Obama has not offered anything to undermine their authority in that regard.

 

[fskimospy]

You shits better pray to whatever gods you choose that Obama's methods for bypassing congressional acts are found unconstitutional, because if not, when a Republican takes office and starts inking his own orders that bypass the legislature (or even editing existing laws), you're all going to be screaming like little girls watching Friday the 13th at a slumber party. Precedent will have been set, it will happen, because power doesn't just disappear. It'll be time to pay the fucking piper and you'll be out of change.

What specific act do you think he is bypassing, how, and please specifically say what about his action you think is outside the scope of presidential powers.

Please be as specific as you can.

 

[Jhhnn]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...idential-memoranda-executive-orders/20191805/

Obamas use of memoranda has exploded.

Your linked article points out that Obama's annual issue of executive orders & memoranda combined is less than exceptional-

It also points out that many memoranda are picayune in scope, something you & fellow fringewhacks pointedly ignore.

"Oh God! He directed the labor dept to collect statistics about wage equality among federal contractors! Executive overreach!"

In truth, Obama has shown remarkable restraint in the face of unprecedented obstructionism by Repubs

http://www.nationalmemo.com/5-ways-the-gops-obstruction-is-unprecedented/

Not that you'll read it or follow any of the links being steadfast in delusion.

 

[Genx87]

I havent kept up with this story nor read this thread. But I can already imagine the response from the small govt party. They are most likely whining about how govt should be preventing people from traveling to Cuba or buying products from there.

Also, isnt it ironic that the supposed beacon of freedom denies its citizen the right to travel to or buy products from a communist state 90 miles off its coast?

 

[Linux23]

So go ahead and try to sue him, Boehner.

.

what did happen to this lawsuit?

 

[MagickMan]

And now the deliberately obtuse routine. Highly predictable.

Shit man, it isn't a routine for you, it's a fucking way of life.

 

[MagickMan]

What specific act do you think he is bypassing, how, and please specifically say what about his action you think is outside the scope of presidential powers.

Please be as specific as you can.

Is it time for "let's break down and dissect" already. Fuck that, you've heard the arguments already, it's been talked about for years.

"He edited the ACA 5 times after it was made into law."
"Who cares? Congress. Whatever!"

That type of shit sets precedent that won't be forgotten by anyone who takes office in the future, period. You can talk about how trivial certain orders and memoranda have been, but it's the act itself that's the problem, not the scope of the violation. You crack the door open and some motherfucker is going to push it the rest of the way, that's how gov't works.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

You seem a bit angry.

 

[Jhhnn]

Shit man, it isn't a routine for you, it's a fucking way of life.

Is it time for "let's break down and dissect" already. Fuck that, you've heard the arguments already, it's been talked about for years.

"He edited the ACA 5 times after it was made into law."
"Who cares? Congress. Whatever!"

That type of shit sets precedent that won't be forgotten by anyone who takes office in the future, period. You can talk about how trivial certain orders and memoranda have been, but it's the act itself that's the problem, not the scope of the violation. You crack the door open and some motherfucker is going to push it the rest of the way, that's how gov't works.

Add willful blindness & deliberate derailing of the thread. Check the graph above. Truman issued more executive orders than any President since. By your so called "logic", his successors should have issued even more, but that's not what happened. Try not to depend on revisionist history, OK?

Your desperation to avoid the topic, to make it about your fave ranting ground is both obvious & offensive.

You refuse to acknowledge that any President has the Constitutional right to both establish & curtail diplomatic relations with any nation, refuse to acknowledge that the SCOTUS has upheld that right repeatedly simply because the facts don't fit your raving agenda.

Is diplomatic recognition of Cuba wrong, or is it just wrong because Obama did it?

 

[sunzt]

CATO institute in 2012: Time to End the Cuba Embargo

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/time-end-cuba-embargo

Lifting sanctions would be a victory not for Fidel Castro, but for the power of free people to spread liberty. As Griswold argued, “commercial engagement is the best way to encourage more open societies abroad.” Of course, there are no guarantees. But lifting the embargo would have a greater likelihood of success than continuing a policy which has failed. Some day the Cuban people will be free. Allowing more contact with Americans likely would make that day come sooner.

Lifting the embargo is good for business, spreads america's influence, and opens up closed and repressive societies! It sounds like everything that a conservative American would support!

 

[piasabird]

Communism sucks.

 

[sunzt]

Rand Paul: Trade with Cuba ‘probably a good idea’

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/12...trade-with-cuba-probably.html?sp=/99/102/111/

At least some sense from the GOP....

Not surprised it's from him. He is more in touch with younger voters.

 

[Linux23]

i'm starting to like Rand Paul these days.

 

[theeedude]

If US is a free country, Americans should be free to travel where they see fit.