Obama to freeze federal wages for 2 year

[IndyColtsFan]

State and local government employees generally face the same economic realities as private sector, except with better job security and retirement. States and local governments can't generally just spend whatever they wish, and if the economy turns down they get squeezed just as hard as the private sector due to lowered tax revenue. Even in good times, state and local government department budgets and pay rates do not necessarily increase. The federal government by contrast has automatic raises and near-automatic advancement, and is affected lightly if at all by lower tax revenue. Not really comparable at all.

What was even worse was that on the promotion where she didn't get any raise, they used the excuse that the governor had decreed that no annual raises would be given. Fair enough, but this was a promotion, not someone asking for the normal yearly raise. She then found out that despite this freeze, the governor magically gave raises to certain people in his administration. Go figure! I like Mitch Daniels (our governor), but he really messed up there.

 

[werepossum]

What was even worse was that on the promotion where she didn't get any raise, they used the excuse that the governor had decreed that no annual raises would be given. Fair enough, but this was a promotion, not someone asking for the normal yearly raise. She then found out that despite this freeze, the governor magically gave raises to certain people in his administration. Go figure! I like Mitch Daniels (our governor), but he really messed up there.

I suspect that happens more often than we know. The difference between the money of her old position and her new position goes to someone or something else, keeping the bottom line the same while rewarding the chosen - but it wouldn't be prudent politically to have that known. And yeah, I like Mitch Daniels too, but first and foremost he's a politician. The difference between politician and non-politician is much greater than the difference between Republican and Democrat, generally speaking.

 

[dabuddha]

What was even worse was that on the promotion where she didn't get any raise, they used the excuse that the governor had decreed that no annual raises would be given. Fair enough, but this was a promotion, not someone asking for the normal yearly raise. She then found out that despite this freeze, the governor magically gave raises to certain people in his administration. Go figure! I like Mitch Daniels (our governor), but he really messed up there.

It's called the "Good ole boys club" and it's prevalent in the Federal govt as well :/

 

[jrodson69]

What in the flying fuck are you going on about?

If I make 2-2.5x of a comparable private sector worker, that means that a GM, Boeing, BAE, Ford, etc. mechanical engineer, with 8 years of experience, is making $40,000 a year. Sure, maybe if they worked in India or Thailand...

Federal workers owe back taxes? Do you think we don't pay taxes because we work for the federal government?

In general it is true. Exceptions? Of course. The facts are tough, I know, but Federal Gov't employees make in the area of 2X and some 2.5X the salary of a private sector worker in a similar field.

On the back taxes, it is indeed true. I can dig up supporting articles if you wish. Federal Workers owe a LOT of back taxes.

 

[dabuddha]

In general it is true. Exceptions? Of course. The facts are tough, I know, but Federal Gov't employees make in the area of 2X and some 2.5X the salary of a private sector worker in a similar field.

On the back taxes, it is indeed true. I can dig up supporting articles if you wish. Federal Workers owe a LOT of back taxes.

Again, proof?

Or are your numbers slightly brown considering where they're coming from?

 

[jrodson69]

Again, proof?

Or are your numbers slightly brown considering where they're coming from?

You can do your own Google search if you are genuinely interested. Query "Federal Pay vs Private Sector 2010" and read, read, read. Pay careful attention not solely to the base salaries but to the value of BENEFITS. It's pretty shocking.

 

[dabuddha]

You can do your own Google search if you are genuinely interested. Query "Federal Pay vs Private Sector 2010" and read, read, read. Pay careful attention not solely to the base salaries but to the value of BENEFITS. It's pretty shocking.

Well you're the one making erroneous conclusions which is why I'm asking what information/proof you're looking at. You make the claim, the burden of proof is on you 🙂

 

[Vette73]

You can do your own Google search if you are genuinely interested. Query "Federal Pay vs Private Sector 2010" and read, read, read. Pay careful attention not solely to the base salaries but to the value of BENEFITS. It's pretty shocking.

YOU made the claim, YOU prove it.

 

[Throckmorton]

Does a soldier make 2.5x what a Blackwater mercenary does? Or is it the other way around with the Blackwater mercenary making 10x?

 

[dyna]

Your pay freeze is helping pay for Govt. Healthcare, cash for clunkers, increased unemployment benefits etc... The many expensive and unnecessary expenses that our congress has recently passed. Your congressman thanks you for your support.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Your pay freeze is helping pay for Govt. Healthcare, cash for clunkers, increased unemployment benefits etc... The many expensive and unnecessary expenses that our congress has recently passed. Your congressman thanks you for your support.

We will have to pay for 9yrs of unfunded Bush tax cuts and two needless wars before we even get to the trivial stuff you mentioned. Or did you convieniently forget about those trillions of dollars?

 

[nobodyknows]

I guess you won't be backing up your words with some actual proof or evidence. About what I expected 🙂

Why waste my time trying? I know what my opinion on the matter is and I stick by it.


You obviously think we should cut back the goverment programs, not government pay or benifits. You have forgotten who your boss is. Goverment workers pay raises should have been frozen right along with SS recipients pay rasies.

As far as that goes government pensions should be SS, just like the rest of us, so put that in your pipe and smoke on it.

 

[jrodson69]

YOU made the claim, YOU prove it.

Ok, smarty.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.
The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.


Read it and weep. Or regurgitate some far-left talking points. Facts speak for themselves.

 

[nobodyknows]

Well you're the one making erroneous conclusions which is why I'm asking what information/proof you're looking at. You make the claim, the burden of proof is on you 🙂

No "proof" is necesary to male a claim. In most people's opinions, most goverment workers are overpaid and underworked. You don't like to hear that? Methinks you doth protest too much.

 

[dabuddha]

No "proof" is necesary to male a claim. In most people's opinions, most goverment workers are overpaid and underworked. You don't like to hear that? Methinks you doth protest too much.

Well you're wrong about that. When you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. It's the way it works in our court system as well. I do protest what some folks are saying here because it's complete and utter bullshit. Just because "most people's opinions" might be something, doesn't make it fact. I can give you a real world example right now.

A software engineer coming out of college earns about $50-60k on average (Yes I know these aren't exact numbers and if they're way off, please correct me). When I came out of college, I started out as a GS-7 in the Washington DC area (the average starting salary for software engineers out here) along with 3 other coworkers of mine. That comes out to about $33k per year. In the Washington DC area.

I guess what really bugs me are blanket statements. Everyone knows that blanket statements like "All federal employees this or all federal employees do that" are signs of an ignorant and uninformed person. I do know some upper management folks that don't deserve the pay they get but looking at the GS scale, the average grade level for management (not SES folks) is about GS 14/15. The average software engineer here maxes out at about GS12/13.

 

[dabuddha]

Ok, smarty.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.
The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.


Read it and weep. Or regurgitate some far-left talking points. Facts speak for themselves.

I'll take a look at it when I get home since I'm headed out the door but what jobs are they comparing exactly? Is it a straight apples to apples comparison or are they trying to lump everything together? I'd love to see the breakdown of the $30,415 to $61,998 in 10 years as well.

 

[jrodson69]

I'll take a look at it when I get home since I'm headed out the door but what jobs are they comparing exactly? Is it a straight apples to apples comparison or are they trying to lump everything together? I'd love to see the breakdown of the $30,415 to $61,998 in 10 years as well.

The great discrepancy is the benefits, far more so than the salaries themselves. The difference in base salaries is fairly low but when you add in pension contributions, for example, it gets out of whack very quickly.

 

[Vette73]

Ok, smarty.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.
The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.


Read it and weep. Or regurgitate some far-left talking points. Facts speak for themselves.

I'm guessing you did not do well at math or even basic reading comprehension.


They averaged ALL jobs. They did not compare job duties to job duties. Let alone did not take into account that most Fed Gov hubs are in areas with much higher cost of living.
Only an idiot would not see the gross difference and bias in that. But hey you and the other idiots got a nice catchy headline; to bad its all bunk.


But hey why let reality or facts get in the way? :awe:


"increasingly high level of skill and education required for most federal jobs and the government contracting out lower-paid jobs to the private sector in recent years."

 

[alkemyst]

so somehow just working for the fed makes the skill level higher and require more education?

lolz...someone's playing the smoke and mirror game.

This kind of explaination works well on the lower and uneducated.

 

[Vette73]

so somehow just working for the fed makes the skill level higher and require more education?

lolz...someone's playing the smoke and mirror game.

This kind of explaination works well on the lower and uneducated.

Go to USA jobs and see how many jobs DON'T require many years of direct experience or 4 year, masters, or PHD education.

Find me all these 100k jobs that only require a HS diploma.

That should be easy for someone as “educated” as yourself. 😀

 

[alkemyst]

Go to USA jobs and see how many jobs DON'T require many years of direct experience or 4 year, masters, or PHD education.

Find me all these 100k jobs that only require a HS diploma.

That should be easy for someone as “educated” as yourself. 😀

Again it's you saying you should be getting paid $100k as a federal worker.

There are a TON of engineers working private for $40k today. Meanwhile their federal counterparts making much more.

 

[IBMer]

There are a TON of engineers working private for $40k today. Meanwhile their federal counterparts making much more.

Experienced engineers in the same field? I mean sure a chemical or environmental engineer might make 40k starting, but this isn't common.

 

[alkemyst]

people are staying in school because of it.

 

[Craig234]

There's a hilarious bit on Keith Olbermann showing Glenn Beck saying 'no federal employee should make more than those who give their lives for this country'.

Apparently the number he used was actually the average wage in America rather than the military, but the point doesn't matter which.

Olbermann then quoted a plan for the same things, 'no official shall make more than the average wage'.

Except his quote was from the plan for a commune - in 1918 - that was written by Lenin.

The tea party and Lenin may have finally closed the circle.

 

[werepossum]

There's a hilarious bit on Keith Olbermann showing Glenn Beck saying 'no federal employee should make more than those who give their lives for this country'.

Apparently the number he used was actually the average wage in America rather than the military, but the point doesn't matter which.

Olbermann then quoted a plan for the same things, 'no official shall make more than the average wage'.

Except his quote was from the plan for a commune - in 1918 - that was written by Lenin.

The tea party and Lenin may have finally closed the circle.

WTF? The wage of service members is NOT the average wage. The effect may be similar, but the sentiment is completely different. I'm not surprised though, Beck is a big populist. Just not a big government guy.