obama throws national intelligence director under the bus

[JohnnyGage]

Says the guy shitting on the president of the US

So dissent isn't patriotic?

 

[IGBT]

the intel.community has been telling the obama about ISIS for the last two years. He failed to understand / ask questions. He's not the wizard of smart. He's a dummy in a expensive suit.

 

[Texashiker]

Says the guy shitting on the president of the US

And?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So dissent isn't patriotic?

I guess it depends on the posters mood eh

 

[Jhhnn]

the intel.community has been telling the obama about ISIS for the last two years. He failed to understand / ask questions. He's not the wizard of smart. He's a dummy in a expensive suit.

As if you have any idea what you're talking about. The President or any executive depends on the organization & the people to sort information before they receive it. You have no idea what information actually reached Obama & what didn't.

Hate-Um! Blame-Um anyway, right?

 

[Angry Irishman]

As if you have any idea what you're talking about. The President or any executive depends on the organization & the people to sort information before they receive it. You have no idea what information actually reached Obama & what didn't.

Hate-Um! Blame-Um anyway, right?

And you propose that you know what you're talking about? Who do you think these people work for? Accountability means shit anymore and is slowly being redefined by this horseshit logic. He's the president....that role comes with taking responsibility for the good and the bad of the people who work for you. Another deflection from the POTUS and the American public and even the media are calling him out on it. There has been plenty of talk from within the intel community about him receiving ample information to make a decision.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And you propose that you know what you're talking about? Who do you think these people work for? Accountability means shit anymore and is slowly being redefined by this horseshit logic. He's the president....that role comes with taking responsibility for the good and the bad of the people who work for you. Another deflection from the POTUS and the American public and even the media are calling him out on it. There has been plenty of talk from within the intel community about him receiving ample information to make a decision.

The thing of it is is that it seems the intel agencies have been doing a pretty good job under the constraints they face. Presidents have now been reshaping agencies to give a desired outcome and when the foundations shift any structure that relies upon them is affected. What you say is right, but no matter if the agencies are right or wrong those above them will use them to take the blame. What people mistake presidents to be are leaders and that's not usually the case. They are usually the among the most evolved of political animals often resembling sharks. The remoras cling to them as you see.

 

[boomerang]

well to be fair the two are very alike.

No argument but the underlying argument in bringing up Bush continually is based in "fairness". This guy made a mistake so our guy can make one. This guy made 22 mistakes and our guy has only made 18! See, he's not only better, he's got a better track record! I could go on citing these examples of lunacy for several paragraphs.

Six fucking years in and they're still defending him like we're all in sixth grade! He's the fucking President and we beat the living hell out of every single one of them with words. It's been done forever. This is nothing even remotely new! We don't have to tiptoe around because this one is black. He's an adult and he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself. Just look how far he's gotten! If he's got a thin skin and can't take the heat that comes with the office, he's made a huge mistake - and that's not my problem. And that's the worst of it because he can take the heat. But his defenders have categorized him as a victim and one that needs constant defending.

E. fucking. nuff. Can't wait to be rid of him. Just our luck we'll get fucking Hillary and we'll all be misogynists and she'll need constant defending too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just our luck we'll get fucking Hillary and we'll all be misogynists and she'll need constant defending too.

Now that's something I hadn't thought of. When I was critical of Bush for his actions I was a left wing terrorist supporter. When Obama came around and showed himself for an ordinary politician and backed many of the same wrong policies and now the "ISIS TERROR!!!", which is all on him, I became the right wing shill. Now if Hillary gets in and launches her own war or whatever I'll get to be a sexist pig! Or a sexist right wing pig or a terrorist supporting right wing pig or maybe a whole lot more thrown into the mix. I can hardly wait.

 

[boomerang]

obamas actions display a blatant disregard for teamwork and cooperation.

A leopard can't change its spots. He announced early on in his first term that 'he won'. The message was clear. If you're a Republican, we're not interested in what you have to say. It couldn't have been any clearer. And here we are six years later and that same modus operandi is still in full force. But this guy is not stupid by any means because he has brainwashed a huge segment of the population to believe that the fault does not lie with him. He says he's more than willing to compromise and listen to any good ideas when he's in front of a microphone. When he's not, it's my way or the highway.

Take back the Senate, throw 'the gatekeeper' senile Harry Reid out like the trash that he is and let Obama play golf for the next two years. Let him whine about the situation he's in endlessly. The slacker in him will love it to death. He can use his pen and his phone if he decides there's something important he needs done.

 

[Fern]

-snip-

btw, the US was never in a declared war against Iraq. There have only ever been 5 formal declarations of war by the United States andf Iraq (either time) is not one of them.

The 1st Iraq war was authorized under UN Security Council resolutions and funded by appropriations by Congress.

The 2nd is simply considered to be a military engagement funded by Congress The House resolution never actually declared war.

Yes, the US declared war on Iraq. It's called an AUMF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_1991

There is no readily ascertainable difference between a formal declaration of war and an AUMF. Both are passed by Congress and both mean war. The SCOTUS has ruled that an AUMF is a declaration of war.

Fern

 

[Fern]

the intel.community has been telling the obama about ISIS for the last two years. He failed to understand / ask questions. He's not the wizard of smart. He's a dummy in a expensive suit.

IMO Obama knew damn well what ISIS was. Nothing was underestimated. He just wasn't interested in addressing it. This is a common theme. His hand was forced when the beheading videos hit and public opinion changed. His poll numbers collapsed and he had to swing into action because the mid terms are rapidly approaching. Also, he swung into action in the softest possible way.

Many Dems criticized Bush for not following the Powell Doctrine. Where is that criticism now?

The whole thing about not wanting a long and protracted ground fight and comparisons to Iraq and Afghanistan is nothing but a straw man. As I've suggested before, we should blow in there with overwhelming force and push those rat bastards back into Syria. We'd be back home in a matter of weeks because no nation building is involved (nor should be). This current tepid step is just a slow march into ground forces at war, it's just that ISIS will be dug in and better prepared. And Obama is likely hoping to drag this out until it's in somebody else's lap. (Again, a common theme.)

Fern

 

[peonyu]

Why is it Obamas responsibility to do something about IS? Haven't we learned yet that our actions in the middle east are useless? Let the arabs sort it out if they don't like it.

Its OUR mess. We made it, ISIS is a American creation just like Al-Quaeda is. We removed the stability the region once had, even though it was a brutish stability [SADDAM] it was still stable. Saddam just was not working with us as far as our *ahem* "strategic interests" go [Oil], so his butt was removed as soon as the first excuse was available to do so. When we did that we also disbanded the relatively well-trained Iraqi Police force and Army, so the police force was now American...We leave and the shit hits the fan. Is anyone really fucking surprised here ???

If overnight, the Police force AND the Army AND the national guard/coast guard was instantly removed from every town and city in the US, shit would hit the fan pretty fast here to. Gangs would dominate, the KKK would probably make a resurgence as a stabilizing force in some areas, likewise for black panther groups and other ethnic or religious groups.

Thats what we created in Iraq with the exception of Shiite Areas [South East Iraq] - they are happy they have control of the government there and Shiites blindly follow their Shiite government...Beyond that, Iraq is a power vacuum in Sunni areas[Western Iraq]. It just so happens that Western Iraq also shares a border with Sunni majority Eastern Syra, which due to civil war East Syria also has a power vacuum...Bingo, ISIS is born. Another American creation has breathed the air of the Middle East, and once again we must "stop" this evil.

The proper thing to do imo, is to backup Assad. Let the guy rule his country, he is 100x better than any Jihadi is. That alone will contain ISIS to Western Iraq, and from there I guess let the Kurds police that region of Iraq. Stability will be much better from that alone.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Did we know that at the time?

Yes

 

[Victorian Gray]

So dissent isn't patriotic?

He's not dissenting, he's trolling

 

[Texashiker]

Yes

Does not change the fact that instead of taking any of the blame, obama passes the buck.

 

[MongGrel]

Now that's something I hadn't thought of. When I was critical of Bush for his actions I was a left wing terrorist supporter. When Obama came around and showed himself for an ordinary politician and backed many of the same wrong policies and now the "ISIS TERROR!!!", which is all on him, I became the right wing shill. Now if Hillary gets in and launches her own war or whatever I'll get to be a sexist pig! Or a sexist right wing pig or a terrorist supporting right wing pig or maybe a whole lot more thrown into the mix. I can hardly wait.

:biggrin:

 

[MongGrel]

Does not change the fact that instead of taking any of the blame, obama passes the buck.

No he doesn't, you're just typing soundbites at this point.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yes, the US declared war on Iraq. It's called an AUMF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_1991

There is no readily ascertainable difference between a formal declaration of war and an AUMF. Both are passed by Congress and both mean war. The SCOTUS has ruled that an AUMF is a declaration of war.

Fern

What case?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Does not change the fact that instead of taking any of the blame, obama passes the buck.

Jackass

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It is OUR mess.

I certainly agree with that, it is our mess and not for Obama to go cowboy on us. We cannot win in the old fashioned winner take all sense but we can act with prudence, restraint and forethought at least potentially so. Our problem is with the foolish notion that leadership is telling everyone else how to think and behave and ultimately what the "leader" says goes. I don't need a boss, I want intelligence and a sense of things beyond political party.

 

[Texashiker]

Jackass

Maybe you should reconsider why you are posting in these obama threads?

You are not a US citizen.
You have no ambition in life.
Never owned a home.
Never had a drivers license.

But yet you deflect criticism of obama back to bush? It is time to stop blaming bush.

Obama had warnings from the intelligence community about isis. He just did not want to do anything.

If the beheadings had never happened, chances are we would not be bombing isis. It was not until public opinion swung its hammer that obama decided to do something.

We have a president that has no foreign policy, none, zilch, nada, nothing.

We have a president who is not a team player. He refuses to negotiate with the repubs, refuses to deal with Putin mano-a-mano, did not even send an official envoy to the funeral of Thatcher.

It is not that obama is a a bad leader, it is his inaction that speaks volumes. obama has some of the best intelligence in the world, and he chooses to ignore his advisers?

Besides giving the insurance industry a major victory, obamas presidency has been a failure. Just like his foreign and domestic policy, all failures.

 

[Texashiker]

I certainly agree with that, it is our mess and not for Obama to go cowboy on us.

I seriously doubt obama wants to "go cowboy on us".

He is a talker, and not a doer.

Well, he does stuff like play golf, fund raise and give good speeches. But he is a president of little substance.

I am still waiting on my health insurance that cost as much as a cell phone bill.

 

[Fern]

What case?

It was one of those involving GITMO or that Hispanic guy who was arrested etc. The admin claimed it was war time and habeas corpus did not apply. The admin lost because SCOTUS ruled that Congress must explicitly authorize the power to suspend habeas corpus, and it didn't.

One of the defense's claims was that we weren't at war. This was shot down and the SCOTUS remarked something along the lines of "there are no magic words to a declaration of war" etc.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

Maybe you should reconsider why you are posting in these obama threads?

You are not a US citizen.
You have no ambition in life.
Never owned a home.
Never had a drivers license.

But yet you deflect criticism of obama back to bush? It is time to stop blaming bush.

Obama had warnings from the intelligence community about isis. He just did not want to do anything.

If the beheadings had never happened, chances are we would not be bombing isis. It was not until public opinion swung its hammer that obama decided to do something.

We have a president that has no foreign policy, none, zilch, nada, nothing.

We have a president who is not a team player. He refuses to negotiate with the repubs, refuses to deal with Putin mano-a-mano, did not even send an official envoy to the funeral of Thatcher.

It is not that obama is a a bad leader, it is his inaction that speaks volumes. obama has some of the best intelligence in the world, and he chooses to ignore his advisers?

Besides giving the insurance industry a major victory, obamas presidency has been a failure. Just like his foreign and domestic policy, all failures.

Why I should reconsider why I'm posting? What are you implying?

I'm not a US citizen? So what?

I have no ambition in life? How the hell do you know what I want out of life and how I live it?

I've never owned a home? So what?

I've never had a drivers license? So what?

And just where am I deflecting criticism of Obama back to Bush?

btw, I think they're both terrible presidents who have been harmful to the United States.

And you are still a jackass.