obama throws national intelligence director under the bus

[Victorian Gray]

It was one of those involving GITMO or that Hispanic guy who was arrested etc. The admin claimed it was war time and habeas corpus did not apply. The admin lost because SCOTUS ruled that Congress must explicitly authorize the power to suspend habeas corpus, and it didn't.

One of the defense's claims was that we weren't at war. This was shot down and the SCOTUS remarked something along the lines of "there are no magic words to a declaration of war" etc.

Fern

Ok, nice interpretation.

 

[peonyu]

I certainly agree with that, it is our mess and not for Obama to go cowboy on us. We cannot win in the old fashioned winner take all sense but we can act with prudence, restraint and forethought at least potentially so. Our problem is with the foolish notion that leadership is telling everyone else how to think and behave and ultimately what the "leader" says goes. I don't need a boss, I want intelligence and a sense of things beyond political party.

Well bombing ISIS isnt really going to do much anyways, since we are just bombing one of many little groups that are trying to take control of the power vacuum there. If we bomb ISIS enough they will just break up and form another group, or join one of the countless other factions in that region. Without a Government in place its a waste of time, but we are protecting the Oil regions with our bombing so its atleast in our national interests..

And the Government we left in Iraq is a joke, its not respected by their own soldiers obviously, most of them ran from ISIS or even joined them. Iraq is a clusterfuck and I dont think it will be fixed for along time, in the meantime though there are millions there who have been decimated due to our government's actions. I think terrorism is going to get far worse over time as there are countless kids who grew up in a screwed up Iraq thanks to this countries's lust for Oil.

 

[peonyu]

Maybe you should reconsider why you are posting in these obama threads?

You are not a US citizen.
You have no ambition in life.
Never owned a home.
Never had a drivers license.

But yet you deflect criticism of obama back to bush? It is time to stop blaming bush.

Obama had warnings from the intelligence community about isis. He just did not want to do anything.

If the beheadings had never happened, chances are we would not be bombing isis. It was not until public opinion swung its hammer that obama decided to do something.

We have a president that has no foreign policy, none, zilch, nada, nothing.

We have a president who is not a team player. He refuses to negotiate with the repubs, refuses to deal with Putin mano-a-mano, did not even send an official envoy to the funeral of Thatcher.

It is not that obama is a a bad leader, it is his inaction that speaks volumes. obama has some of the best intelligence in the world, and he chooses to ignore his advisers?

Besides giving the insurance industry a major victory, obamas presidency has been a failure. Just like his foreign and domestic policy, all failures.

The beheadings are a excuse. If you read up on the Kurdish capital city of Erbil, its the Oil capital of Northern Iraq, if ISIS grabbed Erbil then it was game over for our quest for Oil over there for the past 15 years. We only began bombing ISIS when their troops began to make attacks on that city...I dont believe its a coincidince at all that we began attacking this group once they threatened our Oil. And Obama is just doing his job [im not a fan of his btw], he is protecting "American interests" in the region and that is Oil. Erbil = Oil, hence we are bombing ISIS now for threatening our interests. Bombing them for beheading people sounds so patriotic and "good" but its bullshit.

 

[MongGrel]

This could be a pretty big one.

ISIS closes in on Kurdish town in Syria; Turkey debates sending troops

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/30/world/meast/isis-iraq-syria-strikes/index.html

Turkey is one of those you you're going to get a serious fight on the ground types.

 

[Thebobo]

Maybe you should reconsider why you are posting in these obama threads?

You are not a US citizen.
You have no ambition in life.
Never owned a home.
Never had a drivers license.

But yet you deflect criticism of obama back to bush? It is time to stop blaming bush.

Obama had warnings from the intelligence community about isis. He just did not want to do anything.

If the beheadings had never happened, chances are we would not be bombing isis. It was not until public opinion swung its hammer that obama decided to do something.

We have a president that has no foreign policy, none, zilch, nada, nothing.

We have a president who is not a team player. He refuses to negotiate with the repubs, refuses to deal with Putin mano-a-mano, did not even send an official envoy to the funeral of Thatcher.

It is not that obama is a a bad leader, it is his inaction that speaks volumes. obama has some of the best intelligence in the world, and he chooses to ignore his advisers?

Besides giving the insurance industry a major victory, obama's presidency has been a failure. Just like his foreign and domestic policy, all failures.

There is no measure of who can and can't post here. Also if you want folks to read your post best wait until the end of your post to insult them.

Now to the meat.

You don't know for a fact what Obama knew or didn't know.

Obama had already authorized air strikes BEFORE any beheadings.

He has a Foreign policy, being an overacting cowboy is not part of it. Your fantasy of mano a mano with putin is laughable.

Again he has been very active Just not the John Wayne, Guns Blaring, Reagan type (Who was run out of the middle east with his tail between his legs.)

We now have a 40+ nation coalition to deal with ISIS including prominent Muslim nations. I personally think he did a good job on this.

And although flawed I would take him over anyone else that was running.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant_events

.

 

[werepossum]

9/11 happens and what does Bush do? He invades Iraq. Nuff said.

btw, the US was never in a declared war against Iraq. There have only ever been 5 formal declarations of war by the United States andf Iraq (either time) is not one of them.

The 1st Iraq war was authorized under UN Security Council resolutions and funded by appropriations by Congress.

The 2nd is simply considered to be a military engagement funded by Congress The House resolution never actually declared war.

Um, no. As Fern points out, there is no required language in the Constitution for declaring war, and SCOTUS has ruled that such appropriations and authorizations meet the definition of declaring war.

IMO Obama knew damn well what ISIS was. Nothing was underestimated. He just wasn't interested in addressing it. This is a common theme. His hand was forced when the beheading videos hit and public opinion changed. His poll numbers collapsed and he had to swing into action because the mid terms are rapidly approaching. Also, he swung into action in the softest possible way.

Many Dems criticized Bush for not following the Powell Doctrine. Where is that criticism now?

The whole thing about not wanting a long and protracted ground fight and comparisons to Iraq and Afghanistan is nothing but a straw man. As I've suggested before, we should blow in there with overwhelming force and push those rat bastards back into Syria. We'd be back home in a matter of weeks because no nation building is involved (nor should be). This current tepid step is just a slow march into ground forces at war, it's just that ISIS will be dug in and better prepared. And Obama is likely hoping to drag this out until it's in somebody else's lap. (Again, a common theme.)

Fern

Agreed. But there is an argument to be made for waiting and seeing if the regional forces are willing and capabler of defeating the threats on their own or with requested help.

Its OUR mess. We made it, ISIS is a American creation just like Al-Quaeda is. We removed the stability the region once had, even though it was a brutish stability [SADDAM] it was still stable. Saddam just was not working with us as far as our *ahem* "strategic interests" go [Oil], so his butt was removed as soon as the first excuse was available to do so. When we did that we also disbanded the relatively well-trained Iraqi Police force and Army, so the police force was now American...We leave and the shit hits the fan. Is anyone really fucking surprised here ???

If overnight, the Police force AND the Army AND the national guard/coast guard was instantly removed from every town and city in the US, shit would hit the fan pretty fast here to. Gangs would dominate, the KKK would probably make a resurgence as a stabilizing force in some areas, likewise for black panther groups and other ethnic or religious groups.

Thats what we created in Iraq with the exception of Shiite Areas [South East Iraq] - they are happy they have control of the government there and Shiites blindly follow their Shiite government...Beyond that, Iraq is a power vacuum in Sunni areas[Western Iraq]. It just so happens that Western Iraq also shares a border with Sunni majority Eastern Syra, which due to civil war East Syria also has a power vacuum...Bingo, ISIS is born. Another American creation has breathed the air of the Middle East, and once again we must "stop" this evil.

The proper thing to do imo, is to backup Assad. Let the guy rule his country, he is 100x better than any Jihadi is. That alone will contain ISIS to Western Iraq, and from there I guess let the Kurds police that region of Iraq. Stability will be much better from that alone.

This is something I will never understand, this concept that government-operated rape rooms, mass murder, financial support of terrorist groups, and terrorizing one's own citizens are good things because they represent stability.

 

[MongGrel]

There is no measure of who can and can't post here. Also if you want folks to read your post best wait until the end of your post to insult them.

Now to the meat.

You don't know for a fact what Obama knew or didn't know.

Obama had already authorized air strikes BEFORE any beheadings.

He has a Foreign policy, being an overacting cowboy is not part of it. Your fantasy of mano a mano with putin is laughable.

Again he has been very active Just not the John Wayne, Guns Blaring, Reagan type (Who was run out of the middle east with his tail between his legs.)

We now have a 40+ nation coalition to deal with ISIS including prominent Muslim nations. I personally think he did a good job on this.

And although flawed I would take him over anyone else that was running.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant_events

.

+10

 

[MrPickins]

Oh, please. The Bush Admin ruthlessly exploited the greatest political windfall since Pearl Harbor to further their Neocon agenda, both at home & abroad. They drove the bandwagon, flogged the horses mercilessly.

I never said that this was not the case.

Comparisons between that & what's happening today are hogwash.

I wasn't making any comparison, but the quote below applies equally to this administration:

Our government, and the President in particular should be wise enough to stand up to pressure from the populace when they've been stirred into a mass panic and are acting irrationally.

Just to be clear, I feel as though we need to get the hell out of the affairs in that region. What have we gained from it in the past 70 or so years?

 

[peonyu]

This is something I will never understand, this concept that government-operated rape rooms, mass murder, financial support of terrorist groups, and terrorizing one's own citizens are good things because they represent stability.

As we can all see now, it was better under Saddam than it is now in Iraq. Sometimes its best to settle for just OK and try to work with that vs shaking up the whole table and risking it all coming down [which is what has happened with Iraq]. The people killed under Saddam are a tiny percent of the chaos that country has now...And I bet its the same with Libya to be honest. We havnt heard much from there since Gadaffi was killed but what little has come out shows it to be a clusterfuck of chaos now to. The only good thing so far is that Assad is still around, hes no saint but like Saddam he certainly looks like one compared to what would happen if the Jihadists take over.

 

[Zorkorist]

What we've learned is the people of the region need a ruler.

WE SHOULD GO BACK IN THERE WITH ALL OUR FORCE.

-John