Obama Speech on Jobs

[sactoking]

Deductions are loopholes.

Quoted for stupidity.

Deductions are not loopholes. Deductions are specifically-enumerated items allowed under the tax code to encourage various behaviors. Loopholes are applications of laws to produce unintended results. Allowing charitable deductions is not a loophole as they are specifically encouraged through deductions. Qualifying your kids as valid 503(c) nonprofits to deduct their care expenses is an application of law not intended by the legislation, thus a loophole.

 

[theeedude]

Quoted for stupidity.

Deductions are not loopholes. Deductions are specifically-enumerated items allowed under the tax code to encourage various behaviors. Loopholes are applications of laws to produce unintended results. Allowing charitable deductions is not a loophole as they are specifically encouraged through deductions. Qualifying your kids as valid 503(c) nonprofits to deduct their care expenses is an application of law not intended by the legislation, thus a loophole.

Quoted for your stupidity.

 

[sactoking]

Quoted for your stupidity.

Really? So every single tax deduction allowed under the tax code is now an unintended consequence?

 

[werepossum]

Quoted for your stupidity.

You're going to have to do better than that, because everyone with a functioning left brain knows he is absolutely correct. When an entity takes a tax deduction, it is doing something the legislative branch wants it to do and encourages through the positive encouragement of a tax deduction. 'Do what we want you to do, and we will reward you by taking less of your money.'

A loophole by contrast is something that was not intentionally placed, at least not intentionally by most of the legislators who voted for it. A loophole allows an entity to reap the reward (keeping more of its money) without engaging in the desired behavior.

For example, a mortgage deduction encourages home ownership among those not rich enough to pay cash for a home. Government encourages this behavior by allowing the home owner to pay lower taxes. If one found a legal way to pay cash for a home and still claim a mortgage deduction, or claim a mortgage deduction for your new $300,000 cigarette boat because it has a Port-a-potty and a blanket, those would be loopholes, because the government has no desire to subsidize these things.

 

[IGBT]

deductions are loop holes. The home mortgage loop hole the personal deduction loop hole the dependent deduction loop hole. When liberals don't like the tax law they call it a loop hole. Shaft's (the obama) job plan is nothing more then smoke and mirrors and a slimy attempt to raise taxes.

 

[spidey07]

You're going to have to do better than that, because everyone with a functioning left brain knows he is absolutely correct. When an entity takes a tax deduction, it is doing something the legislative branch wants it to do and encourages through the positive encouragement of a tax deduction. 'Do what we want you to do, and we will reward you by taking less of your money.'

A loophole by contrast is something that was not intentionally placed, at least not intentionally by most of the legislators who voted for it. A loophole allows an entity to reap the reward (keeping more of its money) without engaging in the desired behavior.

For example, a mortgage deduction encourages home ownership among those not rich enough to pay cash for a home. Government encourages this behavior by allowing the home owner to pay lower taxes. If one found a legal way to pay cash for a home and still claim a mortgage deduction, or claim a mortgage deduction for your new $300,000 cigarette boat because it has a Port-a-potty and a blanket, those would be loopholes, because the government has no desire to subsidize these things.

Deduct home equities and 2nd mortgages to pay for your toys!

 

[werepossum]

Deduct home equities and 2nd mortgages to pay for your toys!

LOL Those can partially offset their cost, true. Personally I don't have enough money to put my house back into hock for anything less than a very sick family member.

 

[theeedude]

You're going to have to do better than that, because everyone with a functioning left brain knows he is absolutely correct. When an entity takes a tax deduction, it is doing something the legislative branch wants it to do and encourages through the positive encouragement of a tax deduction. 'Do what we want you to do, and we will reward you by taking less of your money.'

A loophole by contrast is something that was not intentionally placed, at least not intentionally by most of the legislators who voted for it. A loophole allows an entity to reap the reward (keeping more of its money) without engaging in the desired behavior.

For example, a mortgage deduction encourages home ownership among those not rich enough to pay cash for a home. Government encourages this behavior by allowing the home owner to pay lower taxes. If one found a legal way to pay cash for a home and still claim a mortgage deduction, or claim a mortgage deduction for your new $300,000 cigarette boat because it has a Port-a-potty and a blanket, those would be loopholes, because the government has no desire to subsidize these things.

Who is to say what is and what isn't intentional? You are trying to treat intent as something absolute, when in fact it's completely subjective. If you fail to understand that, you are stupid, so quoting you for stupidity too. Also, mortgage interest deduction rewards even those who are rich enough to pay cash for a home, but choose to finance it to reduce their taxes. So it can be a loophole, even by your own narrow minded definition.

 

[theeedude]

Really? So every single tax deduction allowed under the tax code is now an unintended consequence?

Intent is subjective. Some people would say running deficits, which every tax deduction contributes to, is an unintended consequence.

 

[spidey07]

Who is to say what is and what isn't intentional? You are trying to treat intent as something absolute, when in fact it's completely subjective. If you fail to understand that, you are stupid, so quoting you for stupidity too. Also, mortgage interest deduction rewards even those who are rich enough to pay cash for a home, but choose to finance it to reduce their taxes. So it can be a loophole, even by your own narrow minded definition.

Wow, you're REALLY reaching here. There are no "means or net worth" testing for deductions. It deals with INCOME. That's why it's called INCOME tax.

And at these rates, with the deduction? Hell yeah you should finance as much as you can.

You're changing your toon loony toon.. According to libs and Obama, "rich" is defined as income. Now you're going after "well they should pay cash and not deduct anything, those evil rich bastards!"

But go ahead and deflect away from the fact that Obama wants to pay for 400+ billion of this stimulus package via increased taxes burden/liability. It didn't work the last time, and it isn't going to work now. Small business, big business, middle class wallets, they are all scared to death of what this president is pushing and desperately trying to weather his storm.

 

[Fern]

Who is to say what is and what isn't intentional? You are trying to treat intent as something absolute, when in fact it's completely subjective. If you fail to understand that, you are stupid, so quoting you for stupidity too. Also, mortgage interest deduction rewards even those who are rich enough to pay cash for a home, but choose to finance it to reduce their taxes. So it can be a loophole, even by your own narrow minded definition.

The intent is well known.

Both houses of Congress publish information on their intent in tax proposals. So, the intent of the law is written for all to see.

The Joint Committee of Taxation will also (repeat) publish the intentions of Congress as regards tax law.

These published intentions are used by the courts when a question of intent arises in tax law cases.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Wow, you're REALLY reaching here. There are no "means or net worth" testing for deductions. It deals with INCOME. That's why it's called INCOME tax.

And at these rates, with the deduction? Hell yeah you should finance as much as you can.

You're changing your toon loony toon.. According to libs and Obama, "rich" is defined as income. Now you're going after "well they should pay cash and not deduct anything, those evil rich bastards!"

But go ahead and deflect away from the fact that Obama wants to pay for 400+ billion of this stimulus package via increased taxes burden/liability. It didn't work the last time, and it isn't going to work now. Small business, big business, middle class wallets, they are all scared to death of what this president is pushing and desperately trying to weather his storm.

Yes, we are all scared to death of returning to Clinton era economic policies. We are enjoying the economic results of Bush era tax deductions so much.

 

[theeedude]

The intent is well known.

Both houses of Congress publish information on their intent in tax proposals. So, the intent of the law is written for all to see.

The Joint Committee of Taxation will also (repeat) publish the intentions of Congress as regards tax law.

These published intentions are used by the courts when a question of intent arises in tax law cases.

Fern

Was it the intent of these deductions to permanent deficits?

 

[Fern]

Was it the intent of these deductions to permanent deficits?

Tax deductions do not cause deficits or debt, spending does.

The deficits and debt have been intentional, Congress has an extensive budgeting process. They plan out for 10 years, have financial professionals in and out of govt monitor the financial situation constantly and have the ability to make course corrections to meet their objectives.

Please google something like "legal definition of tax loophole". Black's legal dictionary or the one at investopedia will help you immensely.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Tax deductions do not cause deficits or debt, spending does.

The deficits and debt have been intentional, Congress has an extensive budgeting process. They plan out for 10 years, have financial professionals in and out of govt monitor the financial situation constantly and have the ability to make course corrections to meet their objectives.

Please google something like "legal definition of tax loophole". Black's legal dictionary or the one at investopedia will help you immensely.

Fern

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tax+loophole

tax loophole
Like this word?

Cultural Dictionary
tax loophole definition
A provision in the laws governing taxation that allows people to reduce their taxes. The term has the connotation of an unintentional omission or obscurity in the law that allows the reduction of tax liability to a point below that intended by the framers of the law.

Yep, deduction fits the primary definition. And before you try to grasp for straws and parse the word "connotation," it means "secondary meaning."

 

[*kjm]

Half the problem is people can vote with no skin in the game. And they get tuition assistance from the people making the money and they expect three figuars right off the bat with knowing squat.

 

[IGBT]

White House wary of putting a number on potential job growth numbers from Obama's American Jobs act after past figures proved to be wrong. All Shaft (obama) is after is taxes under the guise of "jobs".

 

[werepossum]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tax+loophole

Yep, deduction fits the primary definition. And before you try to grasp for straws and parse the word "connotation," it means "secondary meaning."

Prime example of the down side of the Internet - stupid people helping other stupid people feel better about their stupidity. See, this is why we can't have nice things.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loophole

loophole
Popularity
2 ENTRIES FOUND

1) loophole (noun)
2) loophole (verb)


1loop·hole
noun \ˈlüp-ˌhōl\
Definition of LOOPHOLE
1
a : a small opening through which small arms may be fired b : a similar opening to admit light and air or to permit observation
2
: a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded
See loophole defined for English-language learners »
See loophole defined for kids »
Examples of LOOPHOLE

She took advantage of a loophole in the tax law.
His attorney has been hunting for a loophole that would allow him to get out of the deal.
tried to close a loophole in the new legislation