Obama sells $60 billion in arms to Saudi Arabia

[Moonbeam]

Is that all they could buy? Are we going to make them in China?

 

[Craig234]

Today, $60 billion was invested in peace in the Middle East...

Ya, not gonna happen, unfortunately. Would be nice.

 

[xj0hnx]

Today, $60 billion was invested in peace in the Middle East...

Ya, not gonna happen, unfortunately. Would be nice.

Peace through superior firepower.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Peace through superior firepower.

That right. When you know your opponent has the ability to kick your ass just as hard if not more so than you, you tend to mind your manners more.

And really. Who didn't see this coming? I mean Dear Leader bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia.

 

[bfdd]

I do. I think sales of arms to foreign powers is wrong. Especially when they are not our friendlies allies in the world.

I'm not that chill with the sale of our current military equipment either. I'm all for charging for our services, but not selling our equipment.

 

[child of wonder]

So now the Saudis can carpet bomb people who steal food or victims of rape rather than cut off their hands or whip them?

 

[irishScott]

Great. Now some terrorist cell in wonderful sandy old Saud can get their hands on American weapons and blow something up. Beautiful.

Why couldn't we just give them to Israel? Or hell why not Kuwait? Qatar? The UAE? Freaking Bahrain? Jordan? Just seems SA's only on the list because they give us oil.

 

[Zebo]

Saudi is carpet bombing Yemeni villages with our weapons, logistics and satellite help as we speak. Things like this have a way of biting you in the ass later.

Saudi is a Fundamentalist Islamic police state with zero freedoms and horrid human rights. Is that really who we should support? I don't know. Oil is important but we should be careful.

 

[Aegeon]

I do. I think sales of arms to foreign powers is wrong. Especially when they are not our friendlies allies in the world.

In this case, Saudi Arabia would absolutely end up buying more Eurofighters or French Rafales if the US refused to sell more fighters, or perhaps go Russian. The only thing that would change is the US economy would fail to get the boost from the sale. In fact, as noted if they do turn hostile we are if anything better off with them owning these F-15s since that means we can cut off spare parts if that happens. Since we're not talking about F-35s being sold, its not really a matter of us selling our most advanced technology either.

 

[Acanthus]

In this case, Saudi Arabia would absolutely end up buying more Eurofighters or French Rafales if the US refused to sell more fighters, or perhaps go Russian. The only thing that would change is the US economy would fail to get the boost from the sale. In fact, as noted if they do turn hostile we are if anything better off with them owning these F-15s since that means we can cut off spare parts if that happens. Since we're not talking about F-35s being sold, its not really a matter of us selling our most advanced technology either.

Not to mention our enemies having F-15s is not that big of a deal in a world of F-22s and F-35s.

It's like selling them Sherman tanks.

 

[Acanthus]

Saudi is carpet bombing Yemeni villages with our weapons, logistics and satellite help as we speak. Things like this have a way of biting you in the ass later.

Saudi is a Fundamentalist Islamic police state with zero freedoms and horrid human rights. Is that really who we should support? I don't know. Oil is important but we should be careful.

I agree with this, but if America wont give up its ridiculously overreaching empire... you have to fund it somehow.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Things like this have a way of biting you in the ass later.

I've seen where this goes, a bunch of righties telling a lefty, that he is insane to imagine how the US can be blamed in any way.

 

[irishScott]

Not to mention our enemies having F-15s is not that big of a deal in a world of F-22s and F-35s.

It's like selling them Sherman tanks.

I wouldn't go that far. The F-15 is still very capable against most of what's out there. Could even give an F-35 a run for it's money IMO. F-22 would blow it out of the sky, but that goes for everything else up there too. :awe:

 

[manimal]

Saudi is carpet bombing Yemeni villages with our weapons, logistics and satellite help as we speak. Things like this have a way of biting you in the ass later.

Saudi is a Fundamentalist Islamic police state with zero freedoms and horrid human rights. Is that really who we should support? I don't know. Oil is important but we should be careful.

Couldn't agree with you more Zebo, Saudi Arabia has more human rights issues than Iraq did before the invasion. Sure some of Sadam's more egregious acts like gassing the people in the north and bombing the kurds were highly publicized but the stuff that Saudi Arabia got away with-Yemen for example- is just as bad.

If we didn't depend on all that oil and the supply rights that Saudi Arabia gives us the situation would be very different.

As a pragmatist I do have to look at exports like this as being good for the economy in the short term. This sale will have billions in ancillary charges when it comes to parts and training services for these new arms. As a conspiracy theorist I can also think that someday these weapons will kill women and children...

 

[manimal]

I wouldn't go that far. The F-15 is still very capable against most of what's out there. Could even give an F-35 a run for it's money IMO. F-22 would blow it out of the sky, but that goes for everything else up there too. :awe:

If I remember correctly the f15s they were sold have very old targeting systems that have a much shorter effective range than anything we have flown for 20 years....

Time to go check out Jane's..

 

[DanDaManJC]

I've seen where this goes, a bunch of righties telling a lefty, that he is insane to imagine how the US can be blamed in any way.

no no, they hate us solely because they're muslim.

it has absolutely nothing to do with our (previous) support of people like hussein or the taliban.

 

[bfdd]

Couldn't agree with you more Zebo, Saudi Arabia has more human rights issues than Iraq did before the invasion. Sure some of Sadam's more egregious acts like gassing the people in the north and bombing the kurds were highly publicized but the stuff that Saudi Arabia got away with-Yemen for example- is just as bad.

If we didn't depend on all that oil and the supply rights that Saudi Arabia gives us the situation would be very different.

As a pragmatist I do have to look at exports like this as being good for the economy in the short term. This sale will have billions in ancillary charges when it comes to parts and training services for these new arms. As a conspiracy theorist I can also think that someday these weapons will kill women and children...

Definitely agree with you and Zebo on this, but the whole oil thing is bogus. We don't need the ME for oil.

 

[Rezag3000]

this won't antagonize Iran at all

 

[Acanthus]

If I remember correctly the f15s they were sold have very old targeting systems that have a much shorter effective range than anything we have flown for 20 years....

Time to go check out Jane's..

Yeah, we arent selling them the high tech F15-E or the other variants.

These are base jets, 80's style.

 

[JEDIYoda]

She was pissed off at him for not buying out the *whole* hotel last time.

Don`t you have anything better to do. like crawl back under the rock you came out from??

 

[manimal]

Yeah, we arent selling them the high tech F15-E or the other variants.

These are base jets, 80's style.

So basically if we ever met these in the field of battle or more importantly the f16s that Isreal flies they would be acquired, targeted, destroyed before they can ever begin to load a firing solution...

 

[extra]

Michelle needs another vacation with 60 rooms in the south of France?

Dur dur dur dur, stop thread capping eh? This has nothing to do with the topic.

And good, that's a lot of cash going into american manufacturing.

 

[Orignal Earl]

And good, that's a lot of cash going into american manufacturing.

Can you break that down for me.

 

[Zebo]

Couldn't agree with you more Zebo, Saudi Arabia has more human rights issues than Iraq did before the invasion. Sure some of Sadam's more egregious acts like gassing the people in the north and bombing the kurds were highly publicized but the stuff that Saudi Arabia got away with-Yemen for example- is just as bad.

If we didn't depend on all that oil and the supply rights that Saudi Arabia gives us the situation would be very different.

As a pragmatist I do have to look at exports like this as being good for the economy in the short term. This sale will have billions in ancillary charges when it comes to parts and training services for these new arms. As a conspiracy theorist I can also think that someday these weapons will kill women and children...

It's a huge problem we have not rid ourselves of dependence on oil. Carter was right to push it but got ignored because of economics.... it cost about $1 Brl to get oil out of the ground in OPEC nations so they have huge margins to undercut any alternatives which are all much much more COE. A good step would have been a $5 tax per gallon way back when but that would never happen. Too much money to be made by our power players and too much cost born by consumers just getting by so we are stuck in a rut of essentially prostrating ourselves to the worst of the worst....totally antithetical to modernism Wahhabi is. Sad story.

 

[Zebo]

Definitely agree with you and Zebo on this, but the whole oil thing is bogus. We don't need the ME for oil.

Oil goes into global market. think of it as there are 5 apples in a bag and there are 6 of us. Sure we may grab the Mexican apple since it's closer however all those apples got bid up because there was only 5 to chose from with 6 of us.