Obama secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns

misle

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EDITORIAL: Guns on a plane
Obama secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns

Tuesday, March 17, 2009

After the September 11 attacks, commercial airline pilots were allowed to carry guns if they completed a federal-safety program. No longer would unarmed pilots be defenseless as remorseless hijackers seized control of aircraft and rammed them into buildings.

Now President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology.

The Obama administration this past week diverted some $2 million from the pilot training program to hire more supervisory staff, who will engage in field inspections of pilots.

This looks like completely unnecessary harassment of the pilots. The 12,000 Federal Flight Deck Officers, the pilots who have been approved to carry guns, are reported to have the best behavior of any federal law enforcement agency. There are no cases where any of them has improperly brandished or used a gun. There are just a few cases where officers have improperly used their IDs.

Fewer than one percent of the officers have any administrative actions brought against them and, we are told, virtually all of those cases ?are trumped up.?

Take a case against one flight officer who had visited the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles within the last few weeks. While there, the pilot noticed that federal law enforcement officers can, with the approval of a superior, obtain a license plate that cannot be traced, a key safety feature for law enforcement personnel. So the pilot asked if, as a member of the federal program, he was eligible. The DMV staffer checked and said ?no.? The next day administrative actions were brought against the pilot for ?misrepresenting himself.? These are the kinds of cases that President Obama wants to investigate.

Since Mr. Obama's election, pilots have told us that the approval process for letting pilots carry guns on planes slowed significantly. Last week the problem went from bad to worse. Federal Flight Deck Officers - the pilots who have been approved to carry guns - indicate that the approval process has stalled out.

Pilots cannot openly speak about the changing policies for fear of retaliation from the Transportation Security Administration. Pilots who act in any way that causes a ?loss of confidence? in the armed pilot program risk criminal prosecution as well as their removal from the program. Despite these threats, pilots in the Federal Flight Deck Officers program have raised real concerns in multiple interviews.

Arming pilots after Sept. 11 was nothing new. Until the early 1960s, American commercial passenger pilots on any flight carrying U.S. mail were required to carry handguns. Indeed, U.S. pilots were still allowed to carry guns until as recently as 1987. There are no records that any of these pilots (either military or commercial) ever causing any significant problems.

Screening of airplane passengers is hardly perfect. While armed marshals are helpful, the program covers less than 3 percent of the flights out of Washington D.C.'s three airports and even fewer across the country. Sky marshals are costly and quit more often than other law-enforcement officers.

Armed pilots are a cost-effective backup layer of security. Terrorists can only enter the cockpit through one narrow entrance, and armed pilots have some time to prepare themselves as hijackers penetrate the strengthened cockpit doors. With pilots, we have people who are willing to take on the burden of protecting the planes for free. About 70 percent of the pilots at major American carriers have military backgrounds.

Frankly, as a matter of pure politics, we cannot understand what the administration is thinking. Nearly 40 House Democrats are in districts were the NRA is more popular than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We can't find any independent poll in which the public is demanding that pilots disarm. Why does this move make sense?

Only anti-gun extremists and terrorist recruits are worried about armed pilots. So why is the Obama administration catering to this tiny lobby at the expense of public safety?

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I find this a bit bizarre. First off, this will get the "Oh no! Democrats are gun-grabbers" crowd going again. Firearms and ammo will continue to fly off the shelves (it has been impossible to find ammo around here).

Secondly, is there really a good reason to disarm the pilots? Doesn't seem like the brightest move. And with everything going on in the US, why waste time on this?
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Overall, I don't understand why we're worried about a pilot carrying a gun. If they're going to murder a plane of people, they aren't going to shoot people, they're going to fly the plane into the ground.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
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Weird, seems like a good program to me. Honestly can't think of any reason to phase it out (other than irrational anti-gun paranoia, of course). :confused:
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?
 

cubeless

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Sep 17, 2001
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the first shot in the new war against gun ownership... durban and feinstein are using the mexican drug wars to try to get greater gun restrictions in the us, too...

it's a new world, folks...
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

A legitimate reason to end the program is to save money because a properly reinforced door should be more than enough to keep someone from taking over the plane.

An illegitimate reason to end it would be because guns are scary and the pilot might go shooting up the plane (since he could just go crazy and crash the plane too).
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: cubeless
the first shot in the new war against gun ownership
Not really; gun-owners weren't allowed to carry their guns on planes before Obama was elected either.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

he's stupid to end the program.

the pilot having a gun improves the chance that those onboard will survive if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive or corrosive to get through your $200 door...

and nothing personal, but you are not too bright yourself if you think that any mod to a jumbo jet costs 'about $200'...
 

cubeless

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Sep 17, 2001
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: cubeless
the first shot in the new war against gun ownership
Not really; gun-owners weren't allowed to carry their guns on planes before Obama was elected either.


if pilots aren't smart/safe/reliable enough to carry guns, who is?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Originally posted by: cubeless
the first shot in the new war against gun ownership... durban and feinstein are using the mexican drug wars to try to get greater gun restrictions in the us, too...

it's a new world, folks...

yeah right...rhink again....
This has no bearing at all on the everyday person...you pro gun people are so afraid I find it pathetic.
I guess it is true that only a certain segment of our society needs a gun to feel they are a real person@!!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

he's stupid to end the program.

the pilot having a gun improves the chance that those onboard will survive if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive or corrosive to get through your $200 door...

and nothing personal, but you are not too bright yourself if you think that any mod to a jumbo jet costs 'about $200'...

your thinking can be attributed to the fact that your still in grade school.....
A pilot having a gun does NOT improve our safety...sheese....
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: cubeless
if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive
If a bad guy can sneak explosives onto a jet, everyone is dead.
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

he's stupid to end the program.

the pilot having a gun improves the chance that those onboard will survive if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive or corrosive to get through your $200 door...

and nothing personal, but you are not too bright yourself if you think that any mod to a jumbo jet costs 'about $200'...

A pilot having a gun does NOT improve our safety...sheese....


but it does improve his safety. I dont know about you, but when I have a gun in my hand I would be scared of any terrorist or what not.



 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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wow... 3 personal attacks and a baseless assumption... and it took 2 posts to do it... powerful rhetoric there 'yoda...
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

That is not a reason to end the program.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,409
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Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

he's stupid to end the program.

the pilot having a gun improves the chance that those onboard will survive if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive or corrosive to get through your $200 door...

and nothing personal, but you are not too bright yourself if you think that any mod to a jumbo jet costs 'about $200'...

A pilot having a gun does NOT improve our safety...sheese....


but it does improve his safety. I dont know about you, but when I have a gun in my hand I would be scared of any terrorist or what not.

So you're more scared of a terrorist when you have a gun? I think you mean when you don't have a gun.

Face it, pilots are strapped in their seats facing forward. If someone gets explosives onto the plane, they're not going to blow the cockpit door, they'll just blow a hole in the fuselage. And how else would it improve the pilot's safety? In case the co-pilot decides to try and blow the pilot away?

There is a better solution to all this nonsense anyway - get better airport security instead of perpetuating the joke we have now for the last 25 years. The illusion of safety.
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
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Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

he's stupid to end the program.

the pilot having a gun improves the chance that those onboard will survive if the bad guy uses $20 worth of explosive or corrosive to get through your $200 door...

and nothing personal, but you are not too bright yourself if you think that any mod to a jumbo jet costs 'about $200'...

A pilot having a gun does NOT improve our safety...sheese....


but it does improve his safety. I dont know about you, but when I have a gun in my hand I would be scared of any terrorist or what not.

So you're more scared of a terrorist when you have a gun? I think you mean when you don't have a gun.

Face it, pilots are strapped in their seats facing forward. If someone gets explosives onto the plane, they're not going to blow the cockpit door, they'll just blow a hole in the fuselage. And how else would it improve the pilot's safety? In case the co-pilot decides to try and blow the pilot away?

There is a better solution to all this nonsense anyway - get better airport security instead of perpetuating the joke we have now for the last 25 years. The illusion of safety.

oops, forgot the n't.

Anyways, it would be more of a psycological thing with the gun in my eyes.



Also, what if a deranged white tailed deer with rabies gets on the plane and starts mauling people, what then?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
He's smart to end the program.

Why do pilots need guns when about $200 worth of door reinforcements will keep them safe inside the cockpit?

I agree. Besides, what happens if the pilot panics and blows a hole in the cockpit? IMHO, the pilots should not have physical contact with anyone outside the cockpit. They should be fed like dogs and prisoners, via a hole at the base of the door (if necessary).
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,749
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Pilots having Guns was a stupid idea to begin with. Pilots have enough responsibility flying the damn plane. You want someone Armed on a Flight, hire Air Marshals. They can concentrate on Security and if/when a situation arises they will be trained far better than some pilot who has only been trained to point straight and shoot.

In short, arming Pilots was a half-assed on the cheap solution that makes no sense.
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
2,153
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0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Pilots having Guns was a stupid idea to begin with. Pilots have enough responsibility flying the damn plane. You want someone Armed on a Flight, hire Air Marshals. They can concentrate on Security and if/when a situation arises they will be trained far better than some pilot who has only been trained to point straight and shoot.

In short, arming Pilots was a half-assed on the cheap solution that makes no sense.

I would think that the pilots would have to be trained in use of a fire arm before being given one.

Although, seperating the pilots from the passengers is the most EFFICIENT way of avoiding conflict.