Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ?Unsustainable?

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
No matter what anyone say, Obama is not the cure. .

And yet, yours too is just one persons opinion.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Now can we deal in the present and concern ourselves with the terrible economic missteps being taken by TODAY'S president, or is your best solution - one so characteristic of your party's history - to live in the past and play an inconsequential blame game?

Absolutely... " terrible economic missteps" in your opinion. most top economists agree it had to be done given the situation we are currently in.

It's easy as hell for you to sit there, with no responsibility and say what should have been done. It's different when your the leader of the most powerful nation, and economy on Earth, and the entire country (and therefore much of the world) depends on your decisions. Can you even comprehend the weight of that?

I agree, the spending scares the hell out of me, but before you point the finger, think about what is at stake and the tough choices that have to be made.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Absolutely... " terrible economic missteps" in your opinion. most top economists agree it had to be done given the situation we are currently in.

Name one top economist who thinks Obama's budget plan is worth 10T+ in additional deficits over the next decade. Here, let me name one who doesn't: John Lonski, who is chief economist at Moody's seems to think:

The credit market would not take kindly to a further expansion of the budget deficit and it could run the risk of backfiring. Foreign investors don?t like large deficits and an additional increase would shut off the flow of funds into the U.S., pushing up bond yields and sending the dollar into a tailspin.

Your turn, champ.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's easy as hell for you to sit there, with no responsibility and say what should have been done. It's different when your the leader of the most powerful nation, and economy on Earth, and the entire country (and therefore much of the world) depends on your decisions. Can you even comprehend the weight of that?.

As an economist myself, I feel I'm at at least permitted to raise an eyebrow. And while you sit there on your high horse reminding us all that these are just our opinions, let's not forget that your posts amount to nothing more than simply your opinions, as well. What makes our posts any less valuable and worthy of this space than your own? Just the fact that you disagree?

Six months ago, our nation's debt was viewed as catastrophic by this board's left readership - a view I shared then and still share today - and paramount to most other issues. But now that Obama appears to be on his way to becoming the worst deficit culprit in this nation's history, the apology floodgates are being kicked wide open.

Tell me how last year's deficit was leading to this country's Armageddon, but allowing it skyrocket even further is somehow a FIX (!) for something? Are you kidding me?

Originally posted by: retrospooty
think about what is at stake and the tough choices that have to be made.

Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

You ignored the primary purpose of my post, but it was long, so I'll post it here again.

You said lots of top economists think his budget plan is necessary for recovery. I asked you to name ONE. I even provided one who disagrees with your "experts". I gave one reason, of MANY, why it's [such a huge deficit] such a bad idea. It's still your turn.

You edited your post, so I thank you for at least attempting to answer the question. Slew Foot's response is quite appropriate.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

He also needs to understand the difference between a stimulus bill and a budget plan. He's talking apples and oranges but doesn't realize it. Go figure.

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

He also needs to understand the difference between a stimulus bill and a budget plan. He's talking apples and oranges but doesn't realize it. Go figure.

I laughed when he mentioned Paulson & Bernake as well. Incompetent morons who got by on their prior reputations, and the fear from others that replacing them could lead to someone even worse than they are.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

The Obama economic advisory board includes:

Paul Volker
William Donaldson
David Swensen
Austan Goolsbee
Penny Pritzker

Let's not forget Warren Buffet.

As far as **the idiots that got us here in the first place** YES !!! Martin Feldstein is a chief proponent of Voodoo Economics.

Don't you feel silly, now?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

The Obama economic advisory board includes:

Paul Volker
William Donaldson
David Swensen
Austan Goolsbee
Penny Pritzker

Let's not forget Warren Buffet.

As far as **the idiots that got us here in the first place** YES !!! Martin Feldstein is a chief proponent of Voodoo Economics.

Don't you feel silly, now?

The problem with people like Warren Buffet is they specialize in getting themselves rich, not other people.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Then you will admit Bush's deficits really werent that bad in hindsight? Or is it different...because its being spent on...something else? And before you answer that, can you point to what budget cuts of Bush's that Obama made to stop the bleeding?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

Yes. Just like the very same congress who wrote budgets to bury us will get us out.

 

[Stunt]

I was surprised to see the president say this...
He is in a position where he needs to generate confidence in the market and society.
Obama is not on the campaign trail anymore, it's up to him to address the issues he sees.
It's easy to point out the obvious, it takes a leader to actually move things in a new direction.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

No, we are not in a depression... At this point, the country is all bent out of shape at 8% unemployment. Depression would see like 25% and soup lines, tent cities etc. You have no clue what a depression is, not what the cure is and you call me a Retard.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

I thought about discussing this, but I wanted to ease him into it . There are still a lot of people out there who can't comprehend what a market correction is, and that sometimes it's synonymous with "recession".

The market needs to right itself. It's going to be painful, but no amount of legislation or willy-nilly spending can avoid it. It can, however, be artificially prolonged, which Obama - much like FDR - is hellbent on doing.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

You ignored the primary purpose of my post, but it was long, so I'll post it here again.

You said lots of top economists think his budget plan is necessary for recovery. I asked you to name ONE. I even provided one who disagrees with your "experts". I gave one reason, of MANY, why it's [such a huge deficit] such a bad idea. It's still your turn.

You edited your post, so I thank you for at least attempting to answer the question. Slew Foot's response is quite appropriate.

Is this enough to match your ONE ? I googled it, and I could go on and on with names, but this is plenty to get the point across.

* Brad Delong, Berkeley macroeconomist source Wikipedia website weblog
* Joseph Stiglitz, 2001 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia
* Edmund Phelps, 2006 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia
* Ray Fair, Yale macroeconomist source Wikipedia
* Dan McFadden, 2000 Nobel laureate source website
* Robert Solow, 1987 Nobel laureate source Wikipedia
* Jason Furman (director of economic policy) source bio
* Austan Goolsbee (senior economic policy advisor), University of Chicago tax policy expert source Wikipedia website
* Karen Kornbluh (policy director) source bio Wikipedia
* David Cutler, Harvard health policy expert source Wikipedia website
* Jeff Liebman, Harvard welfare expert source Wikipedia website
* Michael Froman, Citigroup executive source bio
* Daniel Tarullo, Georgetown law professor source bio
* David Romer, Berkeley macroeconomist source website
* Christina Romer, Berkeley economic historian source website
* Richard Thaler, University of Chicago behavioral finance expert source Wikipedia
* Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary source Wikipedia bio
* Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary source Wikipedia bio
* Alan Blinder, former Vice-chairman of the Federal Reserve source Wikipedia bio website
* Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute labor economist source bio
* James Galbraith, University of Texas macroeconomist source Wikipedia website
* Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve 1979-1987 source Wikipedia
* Laura Tyson, Berkeley international economist, Bill Clinton economic adviser source Wikipedia
* Robert Reich, Berkeley public policy professor, former Secretary of Labor source Wikipedia weblog
* Peter Henry, Stanford international economist source website
* Gene Sperling, former White House economic adviser source Wikipedia
* Heidi Hartmann, President, Institute for Women's Policy Research website


Prominent finance people who support Obama:
(not actually economists)

* William Donaldson, Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chair 2003-05 source Wikipedia
* Arthur Levitt, SEC chair 1993-2001 source Wikipedia
* David Ruder, SEC chair 1987-1989 source Wikipedia
* Warren Buffet, investor, richest person in world source Wikipedia

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

I thought about discussing this, but I wanted to ease him into it . There are still a lot of people out there who can't comprehend what a market correction is, and that sometimes it's synonymous with "recession".

The market needs to right itself. It's going to be painful, but no amount of legislation or willy-nilly spending can avoid it. It can, however, be artificially prolonged, which Obama - much like FDR - is hellbent on doing.

Don't condescend to me, I am not the idiot you are trying to paint me out to be. I know, and have heard the theories to just let it happen and that recession/depression is the cure. It's certainly one school of thought... Bush and his entire economic team totally disagree with you, and so Does Obama and his entire economic team... That's alot of highly educated experts on both sides of the fence. We are in a fucked up situation, there is no good way out. Let depression happen, or spend our way out. Both Bush and Obama's teams agreed that spending is the way to go.

Either way sucks... I am alot more angry about how we got here than how we get out of it. I cant understand why you arent.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Haha, Paulson, Bernake, and Obama economic team consists of the old CEO of Freddie Mae. Do you really think the idiots that got us here in the first place are the guys who are going to get us out?

The Obama economic advisory board includes:

Paul Volker
William Donaldson
David Swensen
Austan Goolsbee
Penny Pritzker

Let's not forget Warren Buffet.

As far as **the idiots that got us here in the first place** YES !!! Martin Feldstein is a chief proponent of Voodoo Economics.

Don't you feel silly, now?

The problem with people like Warren Buffet is they specialize in getting themselves rich, not other people.

Yeah, that asshole. He had tens of thousands of investors in BRK stock over the last 50 years and made them all millionaires. What a prick!

Then, the nerve of the asshole, he goes and gives all of his money away!

Burn him!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

I disagree that the cure is depression. If you have a flat tire in your car you put a 50-miler on and get to the gas station. You don't leave the car on the side of the road.

I think running up the debt is OK for the short-term. The big problem is, it must be paid down during the good times when receipts increase again.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

No, we are not in a depression... At this point, the country is all bent out of shape at 8% unemployment. Depression would see like 25% and soup lines, tent cities etc. You have no clue what a depression is, not what the cure is and you call me a Retard.

It's laughable that you would compare today's depression to the Great Depression. Of course we don't expect to see soup lines and tent cities. The standard of living today is infinitely greater than the early 20th century. Today's depression will have 11-15% unemployment, decreased credit spending, smaller housing, increased price sensitivity, and other GREAT significant changes to consumer and business behavior.

We can argue what the definition of a "depression" is but mine is a prolonged global recession. A typical recession is two quarters of negative GDP growth. We're currently at 3 quarters in a row of negative GDP growth, with the last 2 quarters at greater than -6%. Please don't tell me we're not in a depression.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Now can we deal in the present and concern ourselves with the terrible economic missteps being taken by TODAY'S president, or is your best solution - one so characteristic of your party's history - to live in the past and play an inconsequential blame game?

Absolutely... " terrible economic missteps" in your opinion. most top economists agree it had to be done given the situation we are currently in.

It's easy as hell for you to sit there, with no responsibility and say what should have been done. It's different when your the leader of the most powerful nation, and economy on Earth, and the entire country (and therefore much of the world) depends on your decisions. Can you even comprehend the weight of that?

I agree, the spending scares the hell out of me, but before you point the finger, think about what is at stake and the tough choices that have to be made.

What tough choices has Obama made? Pullout Iraq and get rid of spending over there? Increase tax? Reduce some of the bailouts? Reduce some social programs?

Even the single most significant spending of his budget, the bailout money, is focused on short term fixes/pains and not making the tough choices and invest in the US infrastructure or other things that will only show a return after his presidency.

Tough choices? I haven't see him make any.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Believe me, I understand what's at stake. I think you think you know what's at stake, but really, you're not thinking very far ahead, and neither is Obama.

Right... You are alot smarter and more informed than Obama, and his entire economic team+ bernanke, Paulson, many other countries govt.'s also doing thier own stimulus bills, all of 'em .

Maybe YOU should go to Washington and spread your wisdom.

But again, let me remind you, although the Obama budget scares me, and is certainly the highest in history, it is that way for a reason... to avoid depression. A damn good reason that he didnt cause.

Hey retard, the cure IS A DEPRESSION. We need to deleverage and reduce capacity. We need to nip it in the bud and go through a *SWIFT* depression and start over. By doing all these bailouts you just PROLONG the depression, which we happen to be in right now.

No, we are not in a depression... At this point, the country is all bent out of shape at 8% unemployment. Depression would see like 25% and soup lines, tent cities etc. You have no clue what a depression is, not what the cure is and you call me a Retard.

It's laughable that you would compare today's depression to the Great Depression. Of course we don't expect to see soup lines and tent cities. The standard of living today is infinitely greater than the early 20th century. Today's depression will have 11-15% unemployment, decreased credit spending, smaller housing, increased price sensitivity, and other GREAT significant changes to consumer and business behavior.

We can argue what the definition of a "depression" is but mine is a prolonged global recession. A typical recession is two quarters of negative GDP growth. We're currently at 3 quarters in a row of negative GDP growth, with the last 2 quarters at greater than -6%. Please don't tell me we're not in a depression.

Fine, you have your definition and the rest of the country has a different one. This is a recession according to everyone else. Even your own definition of 11-15% in this post contradicts what you said above - that we are currently in a depression and we are at 8%.

Whatever - way off topic anyhow.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Now can we deal in the present and concern ourselves with the terrible economic missteps being taken by TODAY'S president, or is your best solution - one so characteristic of your party's history - to live in the past and play an inconsequential blame game?

Absolutely... " terrible economic missteps" in your opinion. most top economists agree it had to be done given the situation we are currently in.

It's easy as hell for you to sit there, with no responsibility and say what should have been done. It's different when your the leader of the most powerful nation, and economy on Earth, and the entire country (and therefore much of the world) depends on your decisions. Can you even comprehend the weight of that?

I agree, the spending scares the hell out of me, but before you point the finger, think about what is at stake and the tough choices that have to be made.

What tough choices has Obama made? Pullout Iraq and get rid of spending over there? Increase tax? Reduce some of the bailouts? Reduce some social programs?

Even the single most significant spending of his budget, the bailout money, is focused on short term fixes/pains and not making the tough choices and invest in the US infrastructure or other things that will only show a return after his presidency.

Tough choices? I haven't see him make any.

Liststen to you... . When you have the worlds economy in your hands and the choices you have are basically to do nothing and let depression happen, or to spend trillions on stim packs - or pehaps do something somewhere in the middle, any way you go that is a tough choice. No logical thinking lib, con, dem or rep would argue that point. Only a partisaned hack could say its not a tough choice.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Let depression happen, or spend our way out. Both Bush and Obama's teams agreed that spending is the way to go.

You see, that's what you don't get. On one hand you're "angry about how we got here", yet you think spending our way out of it "is the way to go". The average American citizen is upside down and inside out of his own asshole in DEBT. The country, ditto. Yeah, spending is the solution :roll: . If you were so pissed about how we got here, you'd think you'd try to avoid some of the mistakes that got us here. That's why many economists, myself included, believe the recession is a necessary correction. EVERYBODY - companies, the government, and private citizens - need to stop spending money they don't have. I was very frustrated when Bush was touting yet another stimulus and asking people to go buy new cars, homes, and televisions. Screw that! PAY OFF YOUR DAMN CREDIT CARDS AND GET YOUR ASSES IN THE BLACK!!! Again, same goes for the gov't.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I am alot more angry about how we got here than how we get out of it. I cant understand why you arent.

This statement doesn't even make sense. "Angry about how we get out of it." What? You really can't understand why people like me might be more interested in evaluating options than bitching and moaning about who we can blame this on? You really can't see how much more productive one is over the other? There's so much blame to go around that you can put it wherever you desire. At some point, you need to let it go and move forward. If you want to armchair quarterback and pull a Pelosi and put all of your energy into trying to hang this whole mess around one man's neck, that's your business, but it's a wasteful, ignorant stance to take.