to keep the math simple we'll say the debt is $10 trillion.
if the government is paying 3% via their various debt instruments ...
$300 billion.
except they're borrowing $1.8 trillion this year - $300 billion of that
will go to debt service.
if that takes the national debt up to $12 trillion and the government
pays 3% interest ... $360 billion.
when you're borrowing money to pay the interest on your debt - you're
BK as in Bankrupt.
so, actually, Obama is being a bit under-stated, but he may be coming
closer to telling the truth than politicians usually do.
(politicians like Nancy go-back-to-SF-please, wontcha-oh-please-please-please
Pelosi)
if the government is paying 3% via their various debt instruments ...
$300 billion.
except they're borrowing $1.8 trillion this year - $300 billion of that
will go to debt service.
if that takes the national debt up to $12 trillion and the government
pays 3% interest ... $360 billion.
when you're borrowing money to pay the interest on your debt - you're
BK as in Bankrupt.
so, actually, Obama is being a bit under-stated, but he may be coming
closer to telling the truth than politicians usually do.
(politicians like Nancy go-back-to-SF-please, wontcha-oh-please-please-please
Pelosi)
I just don't see that last part happening. The Dems giftwrapped both chambers of Congress for the GOP (first time in something like 40 years) when they voted for tax increases in '94, so they've probably learned thier lesson on that one. Instead, we'll probably just head full speed off the fiscal cliff.
I've got a little headache (so I'm too lazy to look it up) but IIRC there were 4 things that really jumped out at me:
1) It looked to me like $2 trillion +/- of the Federal Treasury is being committed to TARP, TALP, Bad Bank and possibly the Federal Reserve. It may well be in the budget but I did not initially find and revenues from repayments of any of this;
2) I've yet to pull out the numbers but $3 trillion +/- of the debt is most likely interest we pay to ourselves on the SS funds that have been 'borrowed' over the last 20 years;
3) Obama fixes the AMT and largely left the Bush tax cuts in place. He 'nicked' around the corners a wee bit but the quick numbers I ran had around $3.4 trillion left on the table; and
4) The new guys are slick. They put little piles of money that in the past have never been incorporated within standard Federal budget submissions. Example: I've never seen money set aside (in this case, $220 billion) based upon the "..statistical probability of natural disasters ... ". Obama's initial DoD budgets over the next 5 years are actually higher than Bush projected.
I think OCGuy was correct (in a brief moment of lucidity
). A highly bleak but generally honest picture has been painted but these guys will come off looking like winners when (if?) they right the ship over the next 2 years and begin serious efforts at attacking the debt and deficits.Quite a big difference between the $320 billion surplus in the unified budget handed to Bush in FY2001 and the $800 billion+ hole (over 120 days) given to Obama on January 20th.
But you knew that and are simply trolling, aren't you?
Exactly, so where's the promised reform?
Bush isn't in office. Obama is. Deflecting to the former is merely a smokescreen for the obvious: same shit, different face.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,849
- 6,386
- 126
I swear some of you get all your "Ideas" from a Teleprompter surgically implanted on your eyelids and controlled by Republican Spinmeisters. What Obama stated is as obvious as hell and it's a whole lot better answer than "Deficits don't matter."
As for current spending, another big "Duh" and those continuing to dismiss it should just STFU and let the grownups deal with the current situation as needed.
Major Fuckups require Major efforts to fix. Welcome to the Real World.
As for current spending, another big "Duh" and those continuing to dismiss it should just STFU and let the grownups deal with the current situation as needed.
Major Fuckups require Major efforts to fix. Welcome to the Real World.
OMFG LMFAO. But seriously, BO is a smart dude, that he said all this is unsustainable has SLIGHTLY restored my trust in him.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Regardless of either of our opinions on what would happen if we did and didnt do it this way - we were in some deep shit, and something had to be done. Only time will tell how it will work out. Alot of reps are up in arms complaining about what they THINK will happen.... Where were they (and you) when Bush started us down this path?
No, just blame Obama, because the fix is painful - Bush gets a pass because he's not so bright.
MrMatt
Banned
- Mar 3, 2009
- 3,905
- 7
- 0
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
wait, what? Is this a joke?
I keep on hoping that the White House has a plan, some trump card that they're waiting to pull out. Maybe they intend to inflate away our debt?
Amen. It's like they just keep taking all these unconnected steps so they can get some sort of short term fix.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
I think your missing the "Major Fuckups require Major efforts to fix. Welcome to the Real World." portion of the post.
Consider it this way. Cancer is an aweful disease and can kill you. Chemotherapy often fixes cancer if caught early enough... But chemo is a horrible and miserable experience itself, but the alternative is death. It seems many people , especially on the right, are blaming Obama (the chemo) and giving Bush (the cancer) a pass.
We are in a world of Shit, thanks to 8 years of Bush 6 of which he had a free pass to do anything he wanted with the reps controlling both house and senate. The cure is NOT going to be easy, and NOT going to be painless. We will hurt for a long long time because of where we are now and it is NOT Obama's fault in ANY way shape or form.
No matter what anyone say, Obama is not the cure. He fucked up Chrysler secured creditor and basically bow down to the union and give them w/e what want. It is most disheartening since it is union overhead cost that cause the uaw in the first place.
The Chinese might help by not giving up the money Obama would like them too
China has 'canceled US credit card': lawmaker
Apr 30, 2009
WASHINGTON (AFP) ? China, wary of the troubled US economy, has already "canceled America's credit card" by cutting down purchases of debt, a US congressman said Thursday.
China has the world's largest foreign reserves, believed to be mostly in dollars, along with around 800 billion dollars in US Treasury bonds, more than any other country.
But Treasury Department data shows that investors in China have sharply curtailed their purchases of bonds in January and February.
Representative Mark Kirk, a member of the House Appropriations Committee and co-chair of a group of lawmakers promoting relations with Beijing, said China had "very legitimate" concerns about its investments.
"It would appear, quietly and with deference and politeness, that China has canceled America's credit card," Kirk told the Committee of 100, a Chinese-American group.
"I'm not sure too many people on Capitol Hill realize that this is now happening," he said.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...SYeFBIII9kezxnP4jgoGZQ
China has 'canceled US credit card': lawmaker
Apr 30, 2009
WASHINGTON (AFP) ? China, wary of the troubled US economy, has already "canceled America's credit card" by cutting down purchases of debt, a US congressman said Thursday.
China has the world's largest foreign reserves, believed to be mostly in dollars, along with around 800 billion dollars in US Treasury bonds, more than any other country.
But Treasury Department data shows that investors in China have sharply curtailed their purchases of bonds in January and February.
Representative Mark Kirk, a member of the House Appropriations Committee and co-chair of a group of lawmakers promoting relations with Beijing, said China had "very legitimate" concerns about its investments.
"It would appear, quietly and with deference and politeness, that China has canceled America's credit card," Kirk told the Committee of 100, a Chinese-American group.
"I'm not sure too many people on Capitol Hill realize that this is now happening," he said.
http://www.google.com/hostedne...SYeFBIII9kezxnP4jgoGZQ
Wow... you are TOTALLY missing the point and the obvious: you can yack all you want about what Bush did, but no one is having that argument with you. Why? Because it's fucking irrelevant. The idea TODAY is to not take an EXISTING problem - which many will concede were due to countless instigators/events, one of which was Bush - and make it WORSE.
So let's get this out of the way right here and now so you can move past your issues with Bush and start dealing with what's happening TODAY, not what happened in the past: Bush contributed to making an unavoidable market correction WORSE.
There. Happy?
Now can we deal in the present and concern ourselves with the terrible economic missteps being taken by TODAY'S president, or is your best solution - one so characteristic of your party's history - to live in the past and play an inconsequential blame game?
Obama isn't nationalizing healthcare, which is a shame because it would save a lot of money. The only real argument against nationalized healthcare is it limits access, not that it costs more.
It limits access because it tears down the incentives to become a doctor in the first place. It limits access AND it reduces the quality of care. I'm sure Obama thinks that doctors should just be doctors out of the kindness of their hearts and not because it's so lucrative, just like he thinks people should just give to charities because it's nice and not because there's a tax incentive, but that's how things work in Fantasy Land, not in the real world.
The man's heart is in the right place, but he's fighting human nature and it's not a battle he or any other socialist has ever won or ever will win.
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