Obama says "Everybody should be bilingual, or everybody should be trilingual."

[Xavier434]

For those who are getting their panties all tied up in a knot over this bilingual thing, think of it this way. We could have a president that believes in stalling revolutionary medical advancement by putting a thorn in the side of stem cell research. Man, wouldn't that suck?

Seriously people, I realize the country has lots of problems and that none of the candidates are the next best thing since sliced bread, but please choose your battles more wisely.

 

[Descartes]

Did any of you complainers actually listen to the clip?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I agree with Obama, we should make it a legal requirement for everyone moving into this country. Best way to achieve this is to make English our official national language and not cater to those living here who are not willing to learn it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Did any of you complainers actually listen to the clip?

You don't hang around ATPN much, do you?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

You can pay for the welfare costs........
I disagree with your premise. They shouldn't get welfare either.

Short of throwing them all into the back of a cattle truck and shipping them back do you want to support them for life or give them a chance to become productive members of the US?
I'd like to quit giving them free government benefits that encourage them to illegalluy immigrate here in the first place.

See bolded.

Fern

Well they are getting amnesty next election one way or the other so it doesn't really matter what you want in regards to that. Your being forced to start thinking about the next issue how to make them productive.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Citrix
so instead of making the illegals learn English we have to learn Spanish? WTF???!!!!! :|

link to audio recorded at a denver high school 28 May 2008.

I agree with him 100% actually. Seriously, it's to our advantage in a world economy to speak more than one language.

 

[vhx]

Allowing multiple languages encourages culturally closed off communities. There are tons of communities here that ONLY speak Spanish and shun outsiders.

I think most of this thread has been about making Spanish an 'unofficial' secondary language. Of course multiple languages is always encouraged, but a specific secondary language would never be required. Everyone has their own preference on what other language they learn, and should not be forced to a specific language they hate. Anyone who wanted a secondary language for America would commit political suicide. Not to mention, it would never get passed.

Most people would only even consider a secondary language is: They enjoy it or they need it for business with other countries. Joe Shmoe working at Wal-Mart or any business where you deal with just American customers should not be REQUIRED to learn other languages IMO.

 

[yllus]

While having two or mote distinct cultures in one nation usually leads to that nation's extinction (see Belgium), it's a wonderful gift and weapon to be able to speak multiple languages. I always enjoy the visits a close friend pays to me because we're able to talk about other people around us without them knowing.

 

[Excelsior]

Regardless of what Obama says, school systems have been requiring at least 2 years or more of a foreign language for years now.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spidey07
This guy just keeps looking dumber every time he opens his mouth.

Actually, comments like that make YOU the one who looks dumber. I studied French in highschool and college, and I speak it well enough to converse after refreshing my ear for a few hours (or days, if it gets serious). That, combined with being an L.A. California native makes it reasonably easy to pick up enough Spanish to talk with Hispanics who have weak English skills, and I've tried to learn at least a few words in Mandarin, Japanese, Korean and other languages, starting with "hello," "good bye," "thank you" and "you're welcome"

It's lead to numerous interesting encounters that simply couldn't have happened without that. You'd be amazed how much better the food and service can get in a Chinese restaurant when you start with a simple, "Ni hao" (hello) and can manage a polite "xie xie" (thank you).

So - you can't eat what you want, can't set the thermostat what you want, can't drive what you want and now you must speak two languages. What a freaking tool, every word out of his mouth is "I'm going to tell you exactly what to do."

Who said you can't eat what you want, unless it happens to be toxic or contaminated?

At a time when we know fossile fuel consumption is destroying the planet, you can heat or cool your house to suit your momentary pleasure and drive a fuel inefficient gas guzzler as much as you want with no concern for the damage you're causing, as long as you don't mind being a greedy, self-centered, destructive turd to everyone else. :thumbsdown:

No one, including Obama, said you MUST speak two languages, but if you took the time to listen to his speech, instead of selecting one sentence, out of context, to fuel your own xeonphobic paranoia, you'd have heard his rationale for the statement. You don't have to listen to all of it. Try adding just the two sentences following the one you quoted:

When it comes to second language learners, the most important thing is not to get bogged down in ideology, but figure out what works.

Understand that my starting principle is, everybody should be bilingual or everybody should be trilingual.

We, as a society, do a really bad job teaching foreign languages, and it is costing us when it comes to being competitive in a global market place.

Obama continued with more on the subject, which I'm sure you don't want to hear, but to put it in perspective, in 1816, Thomas Jefferson said to Charles Yancey, "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."

So go ahead... stay ignorant, but don't expect the majority of a nation that has historically valued having educating and informing its citizens to wallow in your stupidity with you.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: vhx
Allowing multiple languages encourages culturally closed off communities. There are tons of communities here that ONLY speak Spanish and shun outsiders.

I think most of this thread has been about making Spanish an 'unofficial' secondary language. Of course multiple languages is always encouraged, but a specific secondary language would never be required. Everyone has their own preference on what other language they learn, and should not be forced to a specific language they hate. Anyone who wanted a secondary language for America would commit political suicide. Not to mention, it would never get passed.

Most people would only even consider a secondary language is: They enjoy it or they need it for business with other countries. Joe Shmoe working at Wal-Mart or any business where you deal with just American customers should not be REQUIRED to learn other languages IMO.

Why? Learning a second language would only be value added for that person. It may open up opportunities for Joe to move up to management, to distributor, to purchasing, etc.

Allowing multiple languages does not encourage culturally close off communities, the fact that there are multiple cultures and humans natural tendency to stick with what's familiar causes that. You think a Caucasian who learns Chinese as a second language is suddenly going to live in an ethnically Chinese dominated area or vice versa?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Regardless of what Obama says, school systems have been requiring at least 2 years or more of a foreign language for years now.

Many 4 year college degrees require a number of hours in foreign language classes too. People are only making a big deal out of this because it is coming from the mouth of a presidential candidate. The way I see it is that if people can't see past that reality then they are most likely not responsible enough to vote.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Citrix
so instead of making the illegals learn English we have to learn Spanish? WTF???!!!!! :|

link to audio recorded at a denver high school 28 May 2008.

I agree with him 100% actually. Seriously, it's to our advantage in a world economy to speak more than one language.

Wrong... its beneficial for society to only speak one common language. Different languages set people apart.

If everyone would agree on one language, the world would be a better, safer, place. Though my travels and talking with my foreign friends, English has become this standard. Its very uncommon to go somewhere where it isn't being spoken.

Even though I can speak 3 languages (the 3rd one not very fluently), I am trying to learn a 4th, mandarin. It is difficult to pickup languages. If everyone can learn English (it is the most popular and the most "standard"), people can stop wasting time trying to learn the "nonstandard" languages and start relating to each other better. Peace and love

As agreed, I am multilingual, hence, I am more insightful than most people on this thread who only speak one language OR even 2 languages j/k

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: spidey07
This guy just keeps looking dumber every time he opens his mouth.

Actually it isn't stupidity, he ACTUALLY BELIEVES the crap he is spewing.

So - you can't eat what you want, can't set the thermostat what you want, can't drive what you want and now you must speak two languages. What a freaking tool, every word out of his mouth is "I'm going to tell you exactly what to do."

I missed the part where he said "must" speak 2 or more languages. Or where he said that people "had" to any of those things. I did see where he said that people should do those things, as part of being a good person and a good citizen, but hey, if you like being fat, broke, and stupid, by all means go right ahead.

Originally posted by: Pantoot
What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
-Bilingual
What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
-Trilingual
What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
-American

Exactamente. Soy bilingue. Oh el noes! Ahora tengo que renunciar mi ciudadanía Americana!

:roll:

I'm all for learning spanish as a second language. That way when they say "¡Reúna armamentos y ataque! ", I know to run for my gun.

 

[RightIsWrong]

I find it funny (pathetic not ha ha) that the ones that are most vocal about this issue aren't speaking Navajo, Sioux, Cherokee, etc. After all, we were the "illegal" immigrants during their time and we didn't assimilate into the culture of the land.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I find it funny (pathetic not ha ha) that the ones that are most vocal about this issue aren't speaking Navajo, Sioux, Cherokee, etc. After all, we were the "illegal" immigrants during their time and we didn't assimilate into the culture of the land.

smallpox and gunpowder was all the legality we needed

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Being bilingual causes Alzheimer to turn up later than it would normally.

But then, a lot of people complaining about his remark would actually become smarter if they got Alzheimer.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

OK, let's see. The man makes a claim that people should strive to have more knowledge. People get up in arms, because this is America, dammit, and we pride ourselves on our ignorance. What if he had said, "Everyone should have a basic understanding of calculus?" "Fuck him, I've got calculators for that shit!" "Everyone should know the countries of the world." "Fuck that, the only country I care about is America!" It makes us look like ignorant savages to claim that by learning more than one language we are kowtowing to the perceived threat posed by illegal immigration. He didn't even say Spanish. You could learn Swahili; I don't think there's a giant mass of Kenyans swarming across the border, is there?

I love my country, but some of the people in it sicken me. Dios mio...

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Citrix
so instead of making the illegals learn English we have to learn Spanish? WTF???!!!!! :|

link to audio recorded at a denver high school 28 May 2008.

I agree with him 100% actually. Seriously, it's to our advantage in a world economy to speak more than one language.

Wrong... its beneficial for society to only speak one common language. Different languages set people apart.

If everyone would agree on one language, the world would be a better, safer, place. Though my travels and talking with my foreign friends, English has become this standard. Its very uncommon to go somewhere where it isn't being spoken.

Even though I can speak 3 languages (the 3rd one not very fluently), I am trying to learn a 4th, mandarin. It is difficult to pickup languages. If everyone can learn English (it is the most popular and the most "standard"), people can stop wasting time trying to learn the "nonstandard" languages and start relating to each other better. Peace and love

As agreed, I am multilingual, hence, I am more insightful than most people on this thread who only speak one language OR even 2 languages j/k

Asking for one language standard servers only selfish views imo. Language is a culture, and asking for other cultures to be destroyed so you don't have to do as much work is pretty selfish. As well you lost the benefit of the mental stimulation that comes from learning another or third language.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: spidey07
This guy just keeps looking dumber every time he opens his mouth.

Actually it isn't stupidity, he ACTUALLY BELIEVES the crap he is spewing.

So - you can't eat what you want, can't set the thermostat what you want, can't drive what you want and now you must speak two languages. What a freaking tool, every word out of his mouth is "I'm going to tell you exactly what to do."

right.

there's something to be said about learning multiple languages instead of just english. have you ever traveled to europe?

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
I don't know that I agree that everyone should be bilingual, I think its something that individuals should strive for in the U.S. I'm personally trying to learn Spanish, although it is difficult to do if you don't focus a lot of time into it.


With that said, I would think he means illegals should learn English as well as us learning Spanish. If we are bilingual, they should be as well, no?

why in the hell should i learn Spanish? this is America not Mexico.


last week TWO bilingual SCIENCE teachers were fired from a elementary school near here. turns out they were from Mexico, could not speak English and had no computer skills at all. i mean come on, this crap is getting way out of hand. they taught the entire year at that school and weren't fired until after the school year ended. the school didnt want it be known but somebody leaked it and parents are all up in arms on how totally unqualified teachers were hired in the first place and were able to teach a bilingual class when they could not even speak fricken English.

you're conflating issues. plus, why focus on spanish? i think we should grow up with different choices for languages to learn. spanish just happens to be the most useful in america at the moment (arguably). i would love to have had the opportunity to learn an asian language in elementary school.

 

[Fern]

Lot of misconceptions here IMO.

I've spent many years living and working in other countries; had to learn Spanish, French & German.

Unless you're raised as child in a biligual environment it's highly unlikley you'll be proficient enough to conduct business in your second language. Your just really looking for trouble form the inevitable misunderstandings. H3ll, I've seen native Spanish spealkers from diferent countries have trouble communicating accurately with each in biz meetings. Not just pronounciation, but different terminology exists.

It's utter bullsh!t to say that every other country is full of bilingual people. The countries with high instances of foreign language proficiency are the Scandinavian countries, particulary Holland (Netherlands, Nederlands, Pays Bas etc) and they are far ahead of everyone else. They use foreign language textbooks throughout school.

In business, if you aren't a native speaker of the local language they are going to expect you to speak English. German and French biz types routinely use English to converse with each other. Go to Holland and don't speak English, you'll likely be castigated for it.
It's the *unofficial* official language of Amsterdam.

For non-native Spanish speakers, it's the least beneficial language to learn for business. You'll never be as good as the candidates who were taught Spanish in their homes as a child, and there's a ton of them here. Plus they have a cultural advantages - is there ethnic bias in other countries, or is that a uniquely American thing? Hint, it ain't the latter my friends.

Becoming bilingual? You can take all the classes you want, good luck. Chances are you'll never really be bilingual. And if you do, stop using it for a while in every day affairs and see how quickly it slips it away. Americans tend to think the ability to order coffee in cafe or ask directions makes one bilingual. it's nothing of the sort. Then there's the whole written word vs spoken word thingy. E.g., check out French, different sets of verbs/conjugations for the two.

For the vast majority of people, the cost in time and effort to learn a foreign language by far exceeds the benefit. Some people are born into a bilingual family situation, others are naturally gifted, for the rest of us it's long hard grind and your highly unlikely to ever become proficient much less bilingual.

I've spent a lot of time, effort, and money in doing my best to learn German, French & Spanish and I had the benefit of living in these countries so I don't diss bilingualism out of ignorance. But it's a fvcking unrealistic utopian pipe dream.

Jeebus, I'd be happy if more people in this country could just handle making change properly on their own. There's a long list of stuff that should take priority over learning another language. How about being able to find your own country on a map/globe, knowing who our leaders are and how our government is supposed to work, or even speaking/writing English decently?

Nations need *glue* to bind them togther. Unlike other countries we here in the USA don't have a long shared history, ethnic background or religion. We need a common language. And NO we can't all learn Spanish to accomodate immigrants legal or otherwise, why leave out the Russians, Vietnamnese and the rest? We can't all learn everybody's elses languages. The logical solution is that everybody immigrating here learn one language - English. Other countries require that inmmigrants learn their language, why don't we?

Fern

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

I agree with Obama on this. Language is an all too common barrier between people around the world, and I firmly believe that breaking down this barrier of communication will foster good will and make the world a better place. So, on good faith, I will take Mr. Obama's suggestion and set aside some time this year and learn Latin. It will feel good knowing I can converse with Romans the world over.

 

[dahunan]

American should just strive to be a more educated and intelligent culture instead of one dominated so easily by Fox News and Hollywood etc..

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
OK, let's see. The man makes a claim that people should strive to have more knowledge. People get up in arms, because this is America, dammit, and we pride ourselves on our ignorance. What if he had said, "Everyone should have a basic understanding of calculus?" "Fuck him, I've got calculators for that shit!" "Everyone should know the countries of the world." "Fuck that, the only country I care about is America!" It makes us look like ignorant savages to claim that by learning more than one language we are kowtowing to the perceived threat posed by illegal immigration. He didn't even say Spanish. You could learn Swahili; I don't think there's a giant mass of Kenyans swarming across the border, is there?

I love my country, but some of the people in it sicken me. Dios mio...

i agree man. i agree.