Obama releasing torture memos. Change we can believe in.

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Phokus
I wonder how the 'tea party' idiots will respond to more government transparency.

WTF does this have to do with the tea parties?!?

The protests on Wednesday had absolutely nothing to do with this issue you twit.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: OCguy
Well if "waterboarding" is as bad as it got, this is going to be a big deal how? The public already knows that we waterboarded.

If something worse came up, then I can see this being an issue.

It's not even all about what is in the memos. Even if there are no "crimes" committed, the far left, which is out of fucking control as it already is, may attack those who are named in the memos, just for the sake of being named in the memos.

Cubby is out of control....
Cubby Gone WILD!!!!!

 

[sciwizam]

The President Ties His Own Hands on Terror, by Hayden & Mukasey

They don't seem pleased about this

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: sciwizam
The President Ties His Own Hands on Terror, by Hayden & Mukasey

They don't seem pleased about this

Wait, so you're telling me that the CIA director that implicitly endorsed these policies along with the attorney general that refused to investigate them don't agree with Obama not endorsing and laying bare what happened?

What an amazing fucking shock.

EDIT: Then Hayden and Mukasey are worried that the terrorists will know what sort of techniques that we would use... despite those techniques already being widely published. Oh wait, they're worried that intel professionals will be intimidated by this, despite the fact that Obama specifically said nobody will be prosecuted for this.

What a joke that editorial is. I mean, really pathetic even by the low standards I would expect.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
lol, the "torture" memo said they could put a guy in a box with a caterpillar! Oh teh horraaarrs!!!
IMO, that part should have been redacted...now the terrorists will train to overcome their fear of teh bugz!. :laugh:

STFU and go watch reruns of 24

 

[trenchfoot]

Man, why is there so much hot air in this thread? *wets finger and sticks it up in the air to see what direction it's coming from* - yep, shur 'nuff, it's coming from the right.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
Man, why is there so much hot air in this thread? *wets finger and sticks it up in the air to see what direction it's coming from* - yep, shur 'nuff, it's coming from the right.

it is fun watching them flail about

 

[alpineranger]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: alpineranger
These documents are really interesting. They indicate that the techniques used were designed to cause no real pain or injury, and were all used to train us military personnel. I was expecting a lot worse. The explanation of waterboarding is nothing like what we see in the movies or tv.

edit: They also detail putting a guy in a box with a caterpillar or other harmless insect because he was afraid of insects.

convenient what you leave out

Like what? I didn't read everything, but what I did read sounded like an instruction manual for some fraternity hazing.

 

[jackschmittusa]

The "insect in a box" immediately made me think of the novel "1984". A technique used by the government in which they worked hard to figure out what a person's greatest fear was, then terrorized them with the reality of that fear to insure compliance. Anybody care to claim "no harm, no foul" if they don't actually let the rat eat the guy's face off, just make him think they are going to while the rat is an inch away?

 

[AFMatt]

So does this mean Obama is going to release memos and any other information he can find on ALL past administrations? Or just Bush?
I'm all for goverment transparency, and that's a change we all need. But you have to admit it doesn't look all that genuine when you focus on the one particular administration you consistently lean on for blame, while not disclosing everything your current admin is doing.

 

[alpineranger]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
The "insect in a box" immediately made me think of the novel "1984". A technique used by the government in which they worked hard to figure out what a person's greatest fear was, then terrorized them with the reality of that fear to insure compliance. Anybody care to claim "no harm, no foul" if they don't actually let the rat eat the guy's face off, just make him think they are going to while the rat is an inch away?

They didn't use insect in a box technique, according to this (somewhat sensationalist) article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.../torture_memos_tactics

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: AFMatt
So does this mean Obama is going to release memos and any other information he can find on ALL past administrations? Or just Bush?
I'm all for goverment transparency, and that's a change we all need. But you have to admit it doesn't look all that genuine when you focus on the one particular administration you consistently lean on for blame, while not disclosing everything your current admin is doing.

Again another moronic outlook on a thread you don`t understand!
The past wars have been exposed and some are still being exposed!
It just so happens we have a place called Guatanamo....and we are involved in a military action....this has nothing to do with releasing things that don`t exist, except for in your mind.
You say your all for tranparency, it appears as if you are all for being ignorant with little understanding except for maybe what they are teaching you in Jr High School!!

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: AFMatt
So does this mean Obama is going to release memos and any other information he can find on ALL past administrations? Or just Bush?
I'm all for goverment transparency, and that's a change we all need. But you have to admit it doesn't look all that genuine when you focus on the one particular administration you consistently lean on for blame, while not disclosing everything your current admin is doing.

Again another moronic outlook on a thread you don`t understand!
The past wars have been exposed and some are still being exposed!
It just so happens we have a place called Guatanamo....and we are involved in a military action....this has nothing to do with releasing things that don`t exist, except for in your mind.
You say your all for tranparency, it appears as if you are all for being ignorant with little understanding except for maybe what they are teaching you in Jr High School!!

Guantanamo? Were involved in a military action? Say it aint so!!!! Shooot, I thought I went to Iraq as a f-in tourist!
Nothing in my post questioned what we did or are doing in regards to the wars or treatment of detainees. I question the current adminstrations intent to have transparency when the only disclosure going on has to do with anything but what they are doing right now. How about Obama start releasing some Geitner memos? Maybe some Dodd memos too? His own memos? If you are going to claim transparency, it's all or none, not some.
I left Jr High School years ago. You should too.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: AFMatt
So does this mean Obama is going to release memos and any other information he can find on ALL past administrations? Or just Bush?
I'm all for goverment transparency, and that's a change we all need. But you have to admit it doesn't look all that genuine when you focus on the one particular administration you consistently lean on for blame, while not disclosing everything your current admin is doing.

Again another moronic outlook on a thread you don`t understand!
The past wars have been exposed and some are still being exposed!
It just so happens we have a place called Guatanamo....and we are involved in a military action....this has nothing to do with releasing things that don`t exist, except for in your mind.
You say your all for tranparency, it appears as if you are all for being ignorant with little understanding except for maybe what they are teaching you in Jr High School!!

Guantanamo? Were involved in a military action? Say it aint so!!!! Shooot, I thought I went to Iraq as a f-in tourist!
Nothing in my post questioned what we did or are doing in regards to the wars or treatment of detainees. I question the current adminstrations intent to have transparency when the only disclosure going on has to do with anything but what they are doing right now. How about Obama start releasing some Geitner memos? Maybe some Dodd memos too? His own memos? If you are going to claim transparency, it's all or none, not some.
I left Jr High School years ago. You should too.

'

Dodd Memos,

Did you Take High School government? Did you Pass? You know Dodd is in a completly seperate branch of Government? Right?

Plus what secretive action should we release memos for....

Specifics

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: smashp
Dodd Memos,

Did you Take High School government? Did you Pass? You know Dodd is in a completly seperate branch of Government? Right?

Plus what secretive action should we release memos for....

Specifics

I used the term memos for a point, not a specific document. I was about to edit that in, because I knew Jedi would make the same response you did, but thought it was a fairly obvious figurative reference. Guess I was wrong.
The point is, Obama spends more time telling us what the previous administration did than what his is doing now.

 

[Phokus]

Ironically, a footnote in one of the memo's describes waterboarding as falling within the bush admin's definition of torture:

A Bush administration memo from 2005, intended to establish a legal basis for aggressive interrogation techniques, contains a footnote that actually describes waterboarding as falling within the administration's definition of torture.

The footnote, found within one of the Office of Legal Council memos released by the Obama administration on Thursday, suggests that officials in the previous White House likely knew that they were torturing terrorism suspects at a time when they claimed to not be involved in such a practice.

Bush officials also acknowledged in a different footnote that for a period of time, waterboarding was "used with far greater frequency" and "intensity" than advised, so much so that medical personnel could not confirm the safety of the detainees. Authors of the memo said they instructed interrogators to change their use of the technique to make it more similar to its practice in Marine Corps training.

The May 10, 2005, memorandum from the attorney general's office to the CIA defines torture as -- among other things -- activity where a subject suffers prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from "the threat of imminent death." From there, waterboarding was justified as a technique that, while possibly qualifying as a "threat of imminent death," had "safeguards" in place "that make actual harm quite unlikely." The qualifier seemed to clear the Bush White House of illegality.

But in a footnote at the bottom of page 43 of that same memo, the authors dropped the formalities. "For purposes of our analysis," the footnote reads, "we will assume that the physiological sensation of drowning associated with the use of the waterboard may constitute a 'threat of imminent death' within the meaning of sections 2340-2340A."

These criminals should be rotting in prison. At the very least, the lawyers who drafted these memos should be prosecuted

 

[Thump553]

AFMatt: As we have just come off of one of the most secretive administrations in the history of the USA I find your comments above very confusing. Do you think Obama should have continued GWB's policies of keeping nearly everything Bush did secret, while at the same time claiming that Obama should be more public. This is inconsistent, to say the least.

And I'm still confused as to exactly what "Dodd memos" and Geitner memos" you are talking about. It seems more that you disagree with those two politicians, so you feel there must be a memo somewhere showing what terrible people they are. What "memos" exactly are you claiming the Obama administration is withholding?

Obama was facing a probable judicial ruling compelling the disclosure of these very documents. I think he disclosed them in a proper manner. Like Obama I am far more interested in moving forward, correcting the mistakes and excesses of the Bush administration rather than having show trials of one or two underlings.

 

[maziwanka]

i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

Strange. I get the impression that it's the lefties jerking off over this, tightly closing their eyes and fantasizing about Bush and Co. being frog-marched into a jail cell. After all, the left seems to have the biggest hard-on over this issue.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

Strange. I get the impression that it's the lefties jerking off over this, tightly closing their eyes and fantasizing about Bush and Co. being frog-marched into a jail cell. After all, the left seems to have the biggest hard-on over this issue.

sigh

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

Strange. I get the impression that it's the lefties jerking off over this, tightly closing their eyes and fantasizing about Bush and Co. being frog-marched into a jail cell. After all, the left seems to have the biggest hard-on over this issue.

There are two options here. People either dislike Bush because they dislike his policies, or they dislike his policies because they dislike Bush.

Maybe in the case of the president of the US authorizing people being tortured, with the result that some people ended up being tortured to death, people don't like the policies.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

Strange. I get the impression that it's the lefties jerking off over this, tightly closing their eyes and fantasizing about Bush and Co. being frog-marched into a jail cell. After all, the left seems to have the biggest hard-on over this issue.

There are two options here. People either dislike Bush because they dislike his policies, or they dislike his policies because they dislike Bush.

Maybe in the case of the president of the US authorizing people being tortured, with the result that some people ended up being tortured to death, people don't like the policies.

Nowhere do the memos authorize anyone being tortured to death. In fact, a recurring theme throughout the memos is the insistence that there be no lasting physical or mental harm inflicted from the techniques used. Kinda blows all the rhetorical crap out of the water.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i just started reading these memos now. i dont know what im going to think afterwards

It's sickening (or kinda like porn if you're a republican/a psychopath)

Strange. I get the impression that it's the lefties jerking off over this, tightly closing their eyes and fantasizing about Bush and Co. being frog-marched into a jail cell. After all, the left seems to have the biggest hard-on over this issue.

There are two options here. People either dislike Bush because they dislike his policies, or they dislike his policies because they dislike Bush.

Maybe in the case of the president of the US authorizing people being tortured, with the result that some people ended up being tortured to death, people don't like the policies.

Nowhere do the memos authorize anyone being tortured to death. In fact, a recurring theme throughout the memos is the insistence that there be no lasting physical or mental harm inflicted from the techniques used. Kinda blows all the rhetorical crap out of the water.

I never said the memos authorized people being tortured to death, but they very likely contributed to a situation in which people ended up being tortured to death.

Not everything is part of some nefarious scheme to dislike Bush. Some people just don't like our country being a party to torture.

 

[Phokus]

Reading the right's reaction to the release of the memo's i can only conclude that the right is in fact the party of amoral psychopaths. How so many can claim to be Christians is beyond me.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/