Obama recess appointments unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by monovillage, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    The original intent was to allow appointments when the Senate was not in session. The Senate could take weeks to be recalled, that allowed the ability to fill the slot until proper confirmation.

    With current technology, the Senate cam be recalled inside two days.
     
  2. Lithium381

    Lithium381 Lifer

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    like passing a budget in the senate?
     
  3. werepossum

    werepossum Elite Member

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    That's a good point, and I'm certainly in favor of ending recess appointments altogether IFF the Senate can produce a background investigation, debate, and an up or down vote on every nominee within a reasonable time. But there's no point in recalling the Senate if it refuses to do its job.

    Bad as it is to have a massive, unconstitutional government programs, it's even worse to have them and neuter them with a lack of approved nominees. The programs don't end, everyone draws a check except the absent heads. And many of the nominees are federal judges; if we don't need all those federal judges, let's revise the federal court systems to eliminate their positions. If we do need them, let's get them nominated, investigated, debated, and approved or rejected.
     
  4. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    Obama has brought some of these problems down on himself with the contemptuous way he's treated the Republicans since his 1st inauguration. "elections have consequences, at the end of the day I won" etc.. compromise is a 2 way street.
     
  5. werepossum

    werepossum Elite Member

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    Oh, I totally agree. But sometimes you have to work with dickheads to get your job done. "He's an asshole" is not generally a valid excuse for failure.
     
  6. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    They're all assholes, otherwise they wouldn't be in Washington DC.
     
  7. Zorba

    Zorba Diamond Member

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    Really the republicans are trying to go around the constitution here. The republicans don't like the NLRB and are trying to shut it down by not allowing the senate to vote on the appointments. The proper way to get rid of the NLRB, per the constitution, is by passing a law. But since they can't do that, they are now trying to ensure there is no quorum, thus shutting it down.
     
  8. Hayabusa Rider

    Hayabusa Rider Elite Member

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    When the Republicans illegally appoint someone then guess what? They'll be guilty of the same thing Obama did. Now if you think that advise and consent means rubber stamp, then fine. Go back and start looking at the history of political obstructionism from day one of this government. You bring up the fact that both sides deserve criticism. Well hells bells, I've been bitching about that for a few decades. More than a few. What the heck was Obamacare? I'll tell you. It wasn't a means to correct serious problems. They were buried and anyone who pointed them out was guess what? Obstructing. You'll probably not want to face that fact so you cry diversion, which is really getting old. "This is the outrage you can talk about, you can't discuss other egregious acts in the context of incompetence or abuse"

    The bottom line is that in general both sides are completely off the rails. Now the Dems are getting grief. The Reps will later. Deal with it, because it's a repeating cycle that is reinforced by those who won't hold their own to the same standards as the other.
     
  9. Hayabusa Rider

    Hayabusa Rider Elite Member

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    Of course the Republicans try to shut down what they don't like. Right now Biden is out there talking about how the public shouldn't have automatic weapons which they do not. Guess what? They are trying to get crap they want, and shut down what they don't want.

    Personally I'd like to shut the whole political process down, kick every last one out and start fresh.
     
  10. chucky2

    chucky2 Diamond Member

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    Right. Not like it matters. If the Fed had to run itself like a business they'd immediately self destruct. Hmmmmm, there's a thought... :hmm::hmm::hmm:
     
  11. First

    First Lifer

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    lol Benghazi.
     
  12. Don Vito Corleone

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    It's also true that the Republicans in Congress have never shown him one ounce of compromise from the very beginning, as exemplified by Mitch McConnell's comment that his no. 1 priority in the Senate was making sure the President would not serve a second term (as opposed to, say, actually acting in a legislative capacity, the job he was elected to do).
     
  13. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

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    I recall reading that a bunch of Republicans were literally meeting at the time the inaugural balls were happening to discuss strategies for throwing monkeywrenches into Obama's presidency.

    One of them appears to have been a concerted effort to declare in the right wing media that "Obama was against Republicans from the start".

    Accusing your opponent of doing what you yourself are doing -- it's a fairly standard propaganda technique. There's plenty of blame to go around here, but Obama was consistently seen by the public as more willing to deal with the GOP than the other way around.
     
  14. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

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    I've repeatedly, specifically said that this NOT my position. My position is that the job of the Republicans is to conduct hearings, not endlessly obstruct the entire process.

    I want the nominations debated and then either approved or rejected. That is nowhere near to "rubber stamping". I just want the senate to do its damned job.

    If you're just going to mischaracterize my posts to construct convenient straw men, I see no reason to engage in discussion with you.
     
  15. Hayabusa Rider

    Hayabusa Rider Elite Member

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    Well we're getting somewhere now. The Reps should follow the process. I've complained enough about Cuomo that it should be obvious that how things are done matters. I also understand frustration on the part of Obama, but he pushed his solution too far, and considering his stand on the Constitution in other situations does not demonstrate to me that hes overly concerned about the finer points to be charitable about it. Between the two, I find Obamas actions to be more offensive of the two.

    There was an article recently, it may have been Time, which addressed the fiscal cliff and changing the constitution to be more modern. It missed the larger issue. No Constitution which does not outlaw the influence of political parties can prevent what we are seeing, the results of partisan thought. Thats hard to address because humans tend to form collective groups which are in essence psychological tribes which defend themselves against outsiders. That's the real problem to address.

    I tend to reply to your posts because you think and aren't subject to the same degree of bias s many. We also have differing perspectives about many things so I often add mine to the mix. You don't like that it seems and you take it as an attack. You now accuse me of misstating your posts when you've attacked me elsewhere, mischaracterizing my point which didn't involve you in the first place. I let that drop because I had no interest being involved in an adolescent pissing match over something I didn't think worth it. I still don't so I'll do both of us a favor and do what I haven't with others and put you on ignore so I won't be tempted to interact and risk offending your sensibilities. I regret doing this at some level, but for now at least it's probably for the best.
     
  16. cave_dweller

    cave_dweller Senior member

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    What president would appoint judges who would tell him he cannot do anything he wants? Who appointed the Supreme court judges?
     
    #116 cave_dweller, Jan 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  17. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...8263793332301584.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
     
  18. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

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    HR, I usually enjoy interacting with you, so I'm sorry if you've decided putting me on ignore is the best approach. I'm sorry if my response was an overreaction, but I've said both that Obama overreached and that I just want the Republicans to do their jobs .. many times in this thread. So the "rubber stamp" comment got under my skin.

    Maybe we can just write this off as one of those things and strive to interact more constructively next time.
     
  19. glenn1

    glenn1 Elite Member

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    Process arguments are BS. If the Senate can reject a well-qualified Bork by vote, they can block a well-qualified NLRB nominee via filibuster. Once you make a single exception for partisan reasons, saying "Bork is uniquely bad" or such, there is no logical stopping point in escalations. Indeed, game theory says the side which escalates the most and fastest will be better off.
     
  20. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    Yep and any tactic that has been used successfully by one side in a conflict will eventually be used by the opposing side.
     
  21. Charles Kozierok

    Charles Kozierok Elite Member

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    That's a good way to run a war, not a government.

    Of course, if one side has a large contingent of people who hate government and therefore want to gum up the works, then the game theory changes.

    As the old joke goes: "Republicans constantly claim that government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." :)
     
  22. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then get elected and prove it.

    P.J. O'ROURKE, Holidays in Hell
     
  23. monovillage

    monovillage Diamond Member

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    And another.


    And you know, they're all promising us that, and we're voting for them.
     
  24. kage69

    kage69 Lifer

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    It's really surprising to me that so many view Obama as some kind of imperious arsehole and the GOP as just a small, victimized group of innocent hardworkers. Truly, a testament to the power of well funded partisan media.

    Obama negotiates, compromises, or concedes on a variety of issues and consistently raises the theme of inclusion and responsibility ( "we're in this together" ) since 2008. The GOP has acted like a spoiled brat who isn't afraid to throw feces to make an attempt at a point. The filibuster record, the words and deeds of those like McConnell and Issa, yes all this points to OBAMA, that Kenyan Communist Fascist Marxist, as the party in the wrong here.


    Also, how funny is it to hear pubbie supporters claim insults on the part of Obama? lol Can we limit the double standards to one per thread? Just imagine the uproar were Obama ever to stoop to Cheney or Boner's level, egads!
     
  25. kage69

    kage69 Lifer

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    Sorry, had to. In case he Ignores it.

    You are both party to the best of what this forum can offer, your exchanges are a delight from the norm and if you kill that when then... shit. I guess what I'm trying to say is I engage in a lot of sifting here (agree completely about the dropping) and banter between thoughtful wordsmiths such as yourselves is automatically on my Exclusion list.

    Just hoping that write off is what happens.