Serious question: will gays shower with the rest? I could see the answer being, "yes" but wouldn't it be considered ridiculous if straight men showered with woman?
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Harvey
I searched before I posted, but the title of the other thread doesn't mention DADT, and only notes it in passing. I think the topic is worth its own thread. It's my thread so I'll leave this open, but you can ask another mod to look at this if you think it's a problem.
No, it's obviously not for exactly the reasons you imply. The Bushwhackos left him a lot of messes to clean up, and getting stuff done in Washington takes more than mere announcements.
You are correct sir!
So ummm... when does he plan to stop making announcements and actually do something?
I don't think he should do anything until the right has had time to have a good cry and a few temper tantrums and sessions with their shrinks. Bigots need time to adjust. It's not right to just haul them off to their toilets and stick their heads straight in. Give them time to mature a bit and their wrists to heal.
the left has...
control of congress? check
control of the presidency? check
what does the right have to do with this again?
Hopefully the Democrats in Congress will remember what party they are affiliated with or there will be hell to pay in 2010.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,145
- 10
- 81
you do know the odds that when you shower at teh gym you do shower with gays right?
as someone said the odds of knowing someone that is gay is high. they just don't come and say it.
edit:ask yourself. IF you are in a warzone would you rather have a good soldier who knows how to stay safe but fights like hell or straight guy who is a coward and hides when he should be fighting? its a easy answere to me. i don't care if the guy is gayer then richard simmons it wouldnt bother me to have him next to me.
Hate much? :roll:
Got proof of either of those dumbass assertions?
Got proof that 70% of service members will suffer if DADT is repealed?
And you are a blunt instrument of bigotry, hate and stupidity.
Got proof that he's a bigot?
What does the Nobel Prize have to do with this issue, and why do you take EVERY opportunity to show your abject ignorance? DADT is a law, not an executive order. As such, Obama can act to limit its implimentation and enforcement, but it can be fully repealed only by legislation from Congress. In his speech, he announced that he was working with Congress and the military to achieve that.
Hey, sailor. Are you an expert? :laugh:
He said, speaking from the latter perspective. :laugh:
So, do you prefer catsup or mustard on your neighbors' kids? :shocked:
Says the guy who continually spews hate and bigotry. :thumbsdown:
Which "everyone" would that be?
It hasn't hurt the Israeli military or the British military.
And beyond your short sighted, narrow minded self, how many of your "everyone" share your little phone booth? :roll:
Serious answer -- It would be difficult to work around them if they didn't shower.
What does one have to do with the other?
the fact that he could sign a stop loss to stop kicking soldiers out of the army while waiting on congress to repeal the law and hasn't combined with the fact that he doesn't seem to have lifted a pinkie to try and get congress to act on this is kind of a kick in the nuts... practically Obama's entire presidency has been defined by this dissonance between what he says and what he actually does.
as far as I can see, he's done more to get the Olympic games hosted in Chicago than he's done to get don't ask/don't tell taken off the books.
Obama making a speech to a gay and lesbian group he will repeal DADT is news? Let us know when he actually does it.
You do know "the gay" is contagious, right? Don't be surprised if the next time you're drinking with your "buddy," you accidentally trip and give him a BJ.
Originally posted by: Harvey
Hate much? :roll:
Got proof of either of those dumbass assertions?
Got proof that 70% of service members will suffer if DADT is repealed?
And you are a blunt instrument of bigotry, hate and stupidity.
Got proof that he's a bigot?
What does the Nobel Prize have to do with this issue, and why do you take EVERY opportunity to show your abject ignorance? DADT is a law, not an executive order. As such, Obama can act to limit its implimentation and enforcement, but it can be fully repealed only by legislation from Congress. In his speech, he announced that he was working with Congress and the military to achieve that.
Hey, sailor. Are you an expert? :laugh:
He said, speaking from the latter perspective. :laugh:
So, do you prefer catsup or mustard on your neighbors' kids? :shocked:
Says the guy who continually spews hate and bigotry. :thumbsdown:
Which "everyone" would that be?
It hasn't hurt the Israeli military or the British military.
And beyond your short sighted, narrow minded self, how many of your "everyone" share your little phone booth? :roll:
Serious answer -- It would be difficult to work around them if they didn't shower.
What does one have to do with the other?
Yes.
No. I guess you think men and women should shower together then right? There's no real basis for separating naked men and women other than the fear of sexual attraction. I don't really care about gays in the military but it seems that if it happens there should be more emphasis on privacy for the individual. Or everyone can go Starshiptroopers as someone else mentioned.
GodlessAstronomer
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,010
- 1
- 0
I'm sure many gays have served with the highest distinction. I'm sure I have worked or currently work alongside gay people. If I was gay I would still want to be able to serve in the military. I don't see any reason to oppose it other than homosexuality goes against your principles.
Speaking specifically about the Army, it's too structured and organized to allow a gay person to become a problem... his battle buddies would square that shit away quick and then his first line leaders would make sure it doesn't happen again. If there was some sort of issue, it would be like any other conduct problem and dealt with accordingly. But from my perspective, it just doesn't seem like there would be a big deal.
Speaking specifically about the Army, it's too structured and organized to allow a gay person to become a problem... his battle buddies would square that shit away quick and then his first line leaders would make sure it doesn't happen again. If there was some sort of issue, it would be like any other conduct problem and dealt with accordingly. But from my perspective, it just doesn't seem like there would be a big deal.
If you think having a sexual attraction to women would make you unfit for military duty, then you might thing having a sexual attraction to men would. I just posted this without a single thought to what my attraction is. It makes no difference at all when you are doing what a soldier does. Liking girls doesn't help me squeeze a trigger.
I have two points to make: the first is that homosexuality in and of itself is irrelevant to what constitutes a 'good soldier'. As Barry Goldwater put it, "I don't care if the soldier is straight, it matters if the soldier shoots straight." And as people have already pointed out, there's already gays openly serving in other militaries; as far as I know no reasonable person would accuse the Israeli or British military of being toothless 'paper tigers'.
The second point is that the hoopla over gays in the military ignores a much more insidious and very real problem: gangs/criminals, hate groups, and barely-qualified individuals allowed to enlist in the military. Even if one could believe that having (openly) gay individuals would somehow undermine or weaken military effectiveness, the same could be said for having individuals lacking integrity or those unable to exhibit basic reasoning/learning skills.
And I'm skeptical that the War on Terror is going so well that the US military has the luxury of forcing out essential personnel to the war errort (ie interpreters/linguists especially in critical areas such as Arabic/Farsi).
Nytimes article 'hate groups infiltrate military'
The second point is that the hoopla over gays in the military ignores a much more insidious and very real problem: gangs/criminals, hate groups, and barely-qualified individuals allowed to enlist in the military. Even if one could believe that having (openly) gay individuals would somehow undermine or weaken military effectiveness, the same could be said for having individuals lacking integrity or those unable to exhibit basic reasoning/learning skills.
And I'm skeptical that the War on Terror is going so well that the US military has the luxury of forcing out essential personnel to the war errort (ie interpreters/linguists especially in critical areas such as Arabic/Farsi).
Nytimes article 'hate groups infiltrate military'
The issue is not rape. It's about bringing sexuality into an environment. And I don't buy that gay men can refrain from objectifying naked men around them. That's about as unlikely as straight men not making a co-ed shower.
Interestingly, gay Israelis in the military are apparently allowed to shower alone if they want to. Half of gay Israelis in the military have been harassed. (Wikipedia.)
And for those that like jump to conclusions (apparently most in this thread), I'm not opposed to gays in the military.
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