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Obama: Raise Taxes, Penalize Business
- Thread starter Carbo
- Start date
RightIsWrong
Diamond Member
Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.
Bowfinger
Lifer
Exactly. Believe it or not, some people think that's a bad thing. Even stranger, these people will personally benefit from these changes, or at worse, be only modestly affected, while people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who would be affected the most have publicly declared they believe they should pay more since they have benefited so much. Go figure.
I'm not entirely sure where I stand on that.. I mean, I'm certainly part of the 99%.. it's definitely good for me. But I'm cursed with the gift of empathy.. I can understand why the 1%'ers wouldn't be pleased with that turn of events..
I feel the same way about bans on cigarette smoking. I don't smoke. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. Every time some local so-cal city bans smoking in public, I should be happy because it means that I wont have to smell it anymore.. but I'm not. I feel bad because it's the government treating people (who could be me under slightly different circumstances) unfairly.
It would be enough for corporations to only have to pay the same taxes as you or I. They shouldn't be able to get out of paying taxes via offshore accounts and other such loopholes but I don't agree with this windfall tax business either. You shouldn't be penalized for having good business.
Will Obama not raise income taxes by raising capital gains? Otherwise I dont see how this will benefit me.
btw I never understood the filthy rich complainers about capital gains and income taxes. Nothing is stopping them from writing a check to the govt for more than they legally owe but feel they morally should pay. Yet you never see them doing this. Nothing is stopping either from writing a ridiculous check above and beyond what they owe if they feel that way.
What will happen of course is it filters down so somebody like me who is middle of road pays the same rate as Bill Gates on my 50K when he cashes in his 1 billion. Perhaps a progressive capital gains tax should be implemented?
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
Well let's see. Increase taxes to pay off debts *or* continue bleeding money out like a sieve. The first choice removes some of the debt burdens on our children and the latter increases it. I am not a fan of higher taxes, but I do understand that spending and debt control is sorely needed. We will have to do our part to bring this country back to its former glory, and to do that we must clean up other people's poor spending habits (governmental) including our own. You and many others may scream about how high taxes are during the next four years, but you same few will forget it was the SPENDING before hand that caused the tax hike. I personally think Obama is the least of the three evils, more of the status quo. If you want big government, spending and taxes then you vote for government shills like this one. The simple fact is, if the size of government was decreased even 10% every few years, we wouldn't have to raise taxes to compensate for the radical spending that has occurred in the last 8 years. IMO You guys don't have the right to bitch when you vote for presidential candidates that will increase size of government knowing that money has to come from somewhere to pay for it. Do you think its free? Are government services free?!?! If you don't pay your children will. Then you get the "OMG THEY RAISED TAXES OH WHAT SHALL WE DO!!" crap. You asked for it, deal with it. /thread
GTaudiophile
Lifer
Why oh why can we not just cut government spending??????
SLASH AND BURN!!!
SLASH AND BURN!!!
RightIsWrong
Diamond Member
Why not do both? That's how we ended up with a surplus in the late 90s.
LegendKiller
Lifer
No, being a one-trick pony put Michigan into the worst economy in all 50 states. Nice strawman though.
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
He better watch it. He could end up with more holes than he has currently if he goes messing around with oil companies. But I will say this, he just gained a few points from me if he follows through.
This is also true of which I didn't think of at first. But wouldn't increasing prices to compensate also increase the taxes they would have to pay? Almost seems like it would be a vicious circle.
Sounds like socialist values to me. Why not just cut government back Obama? Is it really that hard? :disgust:
Possibly. But I am willing to bet nearly 100% of the tax will be passed along to the pump.
What concerns me a bit is his idea about using that money to help American families purchase more oil. Which could be an even more vicious cycle. Like I said in another oil thread. If we wanted the govt could lower the cost of gasoline by 100% and have us pay for it on the backend via income taxation. The result however would be astronomical consumption which would raise the price through the roof. If he going to tax them then give us prebates which will mean we are not only paying at the pump but also increasing our use due to a percieved lowering of price?
Going after big oil with a windfall profit tax is purely political and emotional. It is pandering of the worst degree because it will actually hurt the people he is pandering to.
The only thing I can give him in the intelligence dept about this is he realizes people are so stupid about this issue he can lead them over the cliff while they push the cart with glee.
I really dont see this any different than the stupid ass idea to suspend fed gas taxes. Just in reverse.
sactoking
Diamond Member
Income tax does not equal capital gains tax. Income tax is a tax on income. Capital gains tax is a tax on realized wealth.
Increasing CGT is stupid. That discourages saving, investing, and wealth building. That is the LAST thing we should be discouraging. That is made even more relevant since our benevolent government, no matter which party was "in control", has never proven to be able to allocate increased tax revenue to paying down debt. Instead, it has an almost-perfect history of allocating the new revenue to more unnecessary programs and expenditures. Increasing the CGT has all of the drawbacks of reduced savings AND all of the drawbacks of increased spending, with none of the benefits of increased revenue.
Increasing CGT is stupid. That discourages saving, investing, and wealth building. That is the LAST thing we should be discouraging. That is made even more relevant since our benevolent government, no matter which party was "in control", has never proven to be able to allocate increased tax revenue to paying down debt. Instead, it has an almost-perfect history of allocating the new revenue to more unnecessary programs and expenditures. Increasing the CGT has all of the drawbacks of reduced savings AND all of the drawbacks of increased spending, with none of the benefits of increased revenue.
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