OBAMA: Makes all-time high stocks, but what about the middle-class?

[BlueWolf47]

When it's an accomplishment of the person who's goal it was in the first place, yes. Are you saying these things happened on their own?

Lol. Seriously bro?

Its not your fault. He clearly has never heard of a dictionary. An accomplishment is the successful completion of a task. In this since, the successful implementation of a policy.

 

[Matt1970]

Lol, did your quote include weekly unemployment numbers?

You can also note that in January of 09 the rate was 7.8 and climbing fast, after which, the rate at which unemployment was going up started to slow down.



Even if we assume part of that quote is wrong, you have 49 more accomplishments to nullify to address my counter point to the post I was responding to.

Nice 180.

Well that may be what he has said in other posts but I'm this thread he was specifically talking about wealth distribution. Do you have a chart about that disproving his point?

Maybe we are using a font you don't understand. This is what he posted in this thread.

Yeh, they wanted a miracle to overcome the results of 30 years of wealth concentrating Reaganomics. It's not like Repubs delivered anything other than disaster when they controlled both congress & the executive during the Bush years, either.

Your "other 49" huh?
1. Passed Health Care Reform: Forced a Piece of crap down the throats of Americans that they didn't want at the time.
2. Passed the Stimulus: Didn't do what it was supposed to do
4. Ended the War in Iraq: No, we got kicked out of Iraq
6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: Thank god for Obama, no other President could have said yes to taking him out.
7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: Thanks for continuing yet another Bush policy
8. Recapitalized Banks: Banks had plenty of cash before Obama did anything
10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi:We helped but it was the rebels that toppled his ass

7 out of the first 10 aren't really what you want us to think they are now huh?

Should we go over the list of crap he promised us and never delivered on?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Your statement was
You are arguing that anything done is an accomplishment because if one doesn't think it does anything positive, one opposes it and therefore has no valid judgment. Obama could do literally anything and declare it an accomplishment because if anyone disagrees, they are his foes and therefore unable to judge. Obama literally can do nothing wrong.

Obama holds the record for most holes of golf over any president in the history of the US. Funny, that isn't on his accomplishment list

I stopped reading after #3 on his list.
1) I said unrelated to healthcare.
2) I said within the first 2 years. Obviously just copy-pasta over his 2 terms.

 

[Jhhnn]

Don't be a total idiot. This is my HSA out of pocket - the amount I have to spend on health care before my insurance pays a dime. One day I had to spend $2,700 of my own money on health care before my insurance would begin to pay part of it. The next day, thanks to Obamacare, I had to spend $3,700 of my own money on health care before my insurance would begin to pay part of it. That's an additional $1,000 out of my pocket before my insurance kicks in.

So, uhh, you spend the entire deductible every year? Your insurance carrier made no adjustment to rates when your potential out of pocket expenses went up?

Was there some point to having a high deductible plan if you always spent the deductible? Or are HSA's just another tax deferred savings advantage for upper income people?

I think you represent potential expenses as real expenses, Blame Obama! for the difference.

 

[Doppel]

And, rising college costs have put more pressure on middle class families. Students will graduate this year with an average of $35,000 in total loan debt.

Fucking hell. This was $26,000 like three years ago, I am positive it was within $2k of that number. I wonder if this new one is truly accurate.

All I see from gov now is encouraging more debt; the admin wants to keep interest rates low on kids and ensure there is plenty of money to indebt people with. It's not getting better.

 

[bshole]

Plus, Obama's being doing all he can to grow the middle class by taxing the upper class and gifting the lower class.

To be bad he hasn't succeeded. The decimation of the middle class has pretty much followed the lowering of tax rates on the robber baron upper class.

The upper class exported our jobs to China and India. They told us that Americans do not have a "god given right to a job" while getting 25 million dollar golden parachutes when they destroyed their companies.

 

[Exterous]

Fucking hell. This was $26,000 like three years ago, I am positive it was within $2k of that number. I wonder if this new one is truly accurate.

Its based off of a Fidelity survey of 750 college students. Other sources\calculations put it closer to $28,000 (I believe that was the Federal Reserve). Finaid.org puts it at about $30,000.

IIRC the problem in determining the exact number is that there is no requirement or consistent report that will spell out the exact student loan cost of a 4 year degree so there is a lot of extrapolation of data. A lot of studies also have a financial interest in the results. Not saying Fidelity manipulated the data but they do sell 529 (saving for college) plans

 

[Exterous]

The decimation of the middle class has pretty much followed the lowering of tax rates on the robber baron upper class.

I'm not entirely sure that is true. The biggest 'decimation' of the middle class occured when the housing bubble hit as the middle class had a disproportional amount of wealth tied to their house. 90% of the middle class wealth was tied to housing values before the crash so when home values dropped the middle class lost ~55% of their wealth.

So - when we look at what the economy has done the biggest reason is that the rebounding of the economy was not in housing prices but the stock market. Now - since middle class americans had 90% of their wealth in one basket they didn't have a lot in the market to start with but a large number of middle class americans left the market. Some 20% that invested in the market pre-2008 have still not returned after leaving in 2008-2010 meaning they have now missed out on on regaining all the wealth they lost in the stock market. The market is still around its lowest participation rate since the Gallup poll started polling in 1998.

Now everyone is clamoring to get in. January 2013 was the first time in 20 months there was a net gain in stock mutual funds. If the middle class doesn't participate in the part of the economy that is growing the fastest until its expensive to do so then the wealth inequity is going to grow

 

[rudder]

The stock market is the only place you can guarantee a return on investment right now. The market may be a little too high right now but its around where it should be. More and more companies are switching to paying out dividends which guarantee's a 5% or high return on your investment. And if you learn how to sell covered calls and puts you can easily achieve above a 15% return. With interests rates at 1% its really the only place to invest. And bernacky's stimulation has been helping but he wouldn't have to do this if congress was a functional part of our government.

Bernanke helpful???? Stocks make big gains when there is talk of him stepping down and not serving another term as fed chairman as well as slowing the bond buying. Investors don't like policies that result in a dollar that keeps dropping in value.

 

[Matt1970]

To be bad he hasn't succeeded. The decimation of the middle class has pretty much followed the lowering of tax rates on the robber baron upper class.

The upper class exported our jobs to China and India. They told us that Americans do not have a "god given right to a job" while getting 25 million dollar golden parachutes when they destroyed their companies.

No, they told you that if you keep buying imported crap, that is where the jobs will go. Corporations are not going to keep hiring US workers to make products that won't sell. They are going to follow the money. It's what they do.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

To be bad he hasn't succeeded. The decimation of the middle class has pretty much followed the lowering of tax rates on the robber baron upper class.

The upper class exported our jobs to China and India. They told us that Americans do not have a "god given right to a job" while getting 25 million dollar golden parachutes when they destroyed their companies.

Funny, your report of top earners paying higher tax starts during times of war. No Coincidence there whatsoever.

Moreover, do you think the top paychecks of america should pay 70-80% of their paycheck? If they make $1m, they would get back a meer $200k. I guess some people can't understand something until they have it or lose it

 

[Pr0d1gy]

I'm not entirely sure that is true. The biggest 'decimation' of the middle class occured when the housing bubble hit as the middle class had a disproportional amount of wealth tied to their house. 90% of the middle class wealth was tied to housing values before the crash so when home values dropped the middle class lost ~55% of their wealth.

So - when we look at what the economy has done the biggest reason is that the rebounding of the economy was not in housing prices but the stock market. Now - since middle class americans had 90% of their wealth in one basket they didn't have a lot in the market to start with but a large number of middle class americans left the market. Some 20% that invested in the market pre-2008 have still not returned after leaving in 2008-2010 meaning they have now missed out on on regaining all the wealth they lost in the stock market. The market is still around its lowest participation rate since the Gallup poll started polling in 1998.

Now everyone is clamoring to get in. January 2013 was the first time in 20 months there was a net gain in stock mutual funds. If the middle class doesn't participate in the part of the economy that is growing the fastest until its expensive to do so then the wealth inequity is going to grow

Why would they participate in the grand larceny of their own monies? The people who did not get back in the market after 2008 should be running this country and teaching the rest of us proper fiscal policy. You do not put your money back into the safe that the criminals just broke into without any resistance or prosecutions, that would be sheer lunacy.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Fucking hell. This was $26,000 like three years ago, I am positive it was within $2k of that number. I wonder if this new one is truly accurate.

All I see from gov now is encouraging more debt; the admin wants to keep interest rates low on kids and ensure there is plenty of money to indebt people with. It's not getting better.

That is actually part of the problem. To be honest, I can see why the government is encouraging more debt. We have an ecomony that was based off debt. So if we aren't meeting those debt expectations (sales, etc) then business will crumble.

We had a nation that was stacked on debt expectations and not waiting until your next paycheck to spend your next paycheck. If our citizens were to become intelligent and start saving/budgeting - surprisingly it would be a DISASTER for our economy. It's a good thing the latest generation continues to carry the retard genetics.

 

[Attic]

Agreed. Bush's idea was for government to help ease the pain of liquidating the toxic assets. I'm not fully sure why Obama changed that - perhaps the cost was more than even government could spend - but instead we've made a system where the toxic assets aren't liquidated, but rather are traded at their vastly inflated value so that government now holds or guarantees most of them. We've fixed virtually nothing that caused our collapse, just poured money into it.

This is what I have the hardest time squaring up. What I believe to be deeply unsettling vs what I know those smarter than I have decided to do.

Nonetheless markets are up, way way up. I've come to view the markets as simply a nationwide skim on productivity of everyone that is handed to those with the means to benefit from such a setup. So as to the OP, we look at a rising market that is increasingly out of touch with the middle/lower class... and a growing middle/lower class at that.

When I square why those smarter than I engaged is unprecedented money printing along side ZIRP I simply acknowledge that the situation was so dire that while money printing is a terrible choice it was better than the alternative. Whether or not this was simply done to benefit the 1% in and of itself (though clearly an effect of the policy) i'm not sold that it was the main or sole reason.

Beyond that, the increasingly less secret message to the little people is that we are expendable and worthless for what those in positions of power and privilege require. I don't view this as an individual call of those in high positions, but merely a side effect of the centralization of power. It's tragic that those handing more and more power to government don't see the endgame.

 

[Matt1970]

That brings up another point. Printing our way out of all these problems just adds to inflation and who typically suffers the most from inflation? Who feels the pinch more when milk goes up 50 cents a gallon? Stimulus to the rescue.

 

[ivwshane]

Nice 180.



Maybe we are using a font you don't understand. This is what he posted in this thread.



Your "other 49" huh?
1. Passed Health Care Reform: Forced a Piece of crap down the throats of Americans that they didn't want at the time.
2. Passed the Stimulus: Didn't do what it was supposed to do
4. Ended the War in Iraq: No, we got kicked out of Iraq
6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: Thank god for Obama, no other President could have said yes to taking him out.
7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: Thanks for continuing yet another Bush policy
8. Recapitalized Banks: Banks had plenty of cash before Obama did anything
10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi:We helped but it was the rebels that toppled his ass

7 out of the first 10 aren't really what you want us to think they are now huh?

[RED]Should we go over the list of crap he promised us and never delivered on?[/RED]

Lol you are too funny! If its not something you agree with its not an accomplishment, we get it.

Was the bolded your attempt to move the goal posts once again? Lol

 

[soundforbjt]

Funny, your report of top earners paying higher tax starts during times of war. No Coincidence there whatsoever.

Moreover, do you think the top paychecks of america should pay 70-80% of their paycheck? If they make $1m, they would get back a meer $200k. I guess some people can't understand something until they have it or lose it

They do own 80 percent of the wealth...

 

[werepossum]

Obama holds the record for most holes of golf over any president in the history of the US. Funny, that isn't on his accomplishment list

I stopped reading after #3 on his list.
1) I said unrelated to healthcare.
2) I said within the first 2 years. Obviously just copy-pasta over his 2 terms.

Well - maybe that was an accident?

So, uhh, you spend the entire deductible every year? Your insurance carrier made no adjustment to rates when your potential out of pocket expenses went up?

Was there some point to having a high deductible plan if you always spent the deductible? Or are HSA's just another tax deferred savings advantage for upper income people?

I think you represent potential expenses as real expenses, Blame Obama! for the difference.

We have spent the entire deductible almost every year, yes. There MIGHT be one year in ten that we have not.

The point of having a high deductible HSA plan is that we are a very small company and this is all we can afford. HSAs are not retirement plans, but are simply low cost plans to allow one to manage one's own health care costs while maintaining catastrophic heath care coverage. However, BCBS can no longer afford us with the additional burdens of Obamacare, so either we find even worse insurance or we'll have no employer-provided insurance at all. And I assure you that neither I nor anyone at my company is at all wealthy.

This is what I have the hardest time squaring up. What I believe to be deeply unsettling vs what I know those smarter than I have decided to do.

Nonetheless markets are up, way way up. I've come to view the markets as simply a nationwide skim on productivity of everyone that is handed to those with the means to benefit from such a setup. So as to the OP, we look at a rising market that is increasingly out of touch with the middle/lower class... and a growing middle/lower class at that.

When I square why those smarter than I engaged is unprecedented money printing along side ZIRP I simply acknowledge that the situation was so dire that while money printing is a terrible choice it was better than the alternative. Whether or not this was simply done to benefit the 1% in and of itself (though clearly an effect of the policy) i'm not sold that it was the main or sole reason.

Beyond that, the increasingly less secret message to the little people is that we are expendable and worthless for what those in positions of power and privilege require. I don't view this as an individual call of those in high positions, but merely a side effect of the centralization of power. It's tragic that those handing more and more power to government don't see the endgame.

Agreed. I would much rather have seen the Bush plan (TARP as originally set up) where the toxic assets were disposed of, with government putting in just enough to keep the financial institutions afloat. There may however be good reasons why Obama changed it.

I agree completely with your comments about the side effect of the centralization of power. That both parties maintain this status quo supports this conclusion, I think.

 

[werepossum]

Its not your fault. He clearly has never heard of a dictionary. An accomplishment is the successful completion of a task. In this since, the successful implementation of a policy.

So if I successfully install a stove which unfortunately burns down my house, I can celebrate my accomplishment because all that matters is the successful completion of a task, not what results from completing that task. Gotcha.

All hail the Messiah, whose many accomplishments include making boom-boom every day.

 

[ivwshane]

So if I successfully install a stove which unfortunately burns down my house, I can celebrate my accomplishment because all that matters is the successful completion of a task, not what results from completing that task. Gotcha.

All hail the Messiah, whose many accomplishments include making boom-boom every day.

God you are fucking stupid!

If you successfully install a stove, yes it is an accomplishment! Just because it burned down your home later doesn't change that fact.

Go take your meds you fucking nut! That's why your health care costs are so high, your mental issues can't be fixed if you don't stick to your treatment plan.

 

[werepossum]

God you are fucking stupid!

If you successfully install a stove, yes it is an accomplishment! Just because it burned down your home later doesn't change that fact.

Go take your meds you fucking nut! That's why your health care costs are so high, your mental issues can't be fixed if you don't stick to your treatment plan.

Funny, only one of us is in a foaming lather - and it ain't me.

 

[werepossum]

They do own 80 percent of the wealth...

So - why isn't that an accomplishment to be celebrated?

 

[moonbogg]

Only the strong survive. If you can't afford 3 houses and 6 cars and make less than a million a year, then thats your fault. This is natural selection at work. The retards struggle and will eventually die from malnutrition, while the real humans with actual brains will conquer the world.
The poor are like modern day neanderthals. They will be replaced by actual people with money and brains.

 

[werepossum]

Only the strong survive. If you can't afford 3 houses and 6 cars and make less than a million a year, then thats your fault. This is natural selection at work. The retards struggle and will eventually die from malnutrition, while the real humans with actual brains will conquer the world.
The poor are like modern day neanderthals. They will be replaced by actual people with money and brains.

Actually the poor are probably going to replace the wealthy because they have more offspring. Some day in the not-too-distant future government will be automated and we'll all be on welfare and have twenty+ illegitimate children. Government will probably not even have to borrow money, since we all know that a dollar spent on welfare equals three dollars in the economy, but if government does need to borrow money it will be automated. And we'll just borrow more money to pay it back.

 

[Matt1970]

Lol you are too funny! If its not something you agree with its not an accomplishment, we get it.

Was the bolded your attempt to move the goal posts once again? Lol

It won't matter where I put the goal posts, you didn't even show up for the game.