Obama knew about VA issues in 2008

[OutHouse]

Obama and Shinseki have been in charge of the VA for 6 years... is it better in 2014 than 2008?

also why is a retired general in charge of running a healthcare system? maybe find a person who actually knows how to run a hospital??

 

[K1052]

Obama and Shinseki have been in charge of the VA for 6 years... is it better in 2014 than 2008?

also why is a retired general in charge of running a healthcare system? maybe find a person who actually knows how to run a hospital??

I think it has usually been lawyers or other ex-military administrators holding positions since it became a cabinet level post in the late 80s.

 

[D-Man]

I for one am happy that President Obama watches television. If not for TV he would be clueless as what is happening all around him.

 

[CitizenKain]

I think it's also important to note that these employees who decided to deny service to 1700+ vets do not in any way constitute a death panel... :whistle:

So are death panels ok when its a private company doing it?

 

[TerryMathews]

So are death panels ok when its a private company doing it?

That is the advantage of decoupling payment from service. Your insurance company can't make you wait 115 days for an appointment.

 

[ivwshane]

That is the advantage of decoupling payment from service. Your insurance company can't make you wait 115 days for an appointment.

Lol! Wow! You've gone full retard!

 

[Jaskalas]

Another hypothetical question.
Since Obama doesn't view veterans as a group that votes for him, why should he spend political capital making sure that veterans get the medical care that was promised them?

Sounds like another voting block / minority group in the making. Just promise to throw money at them and those "damn obstructionists" just gotta get out of the way.

 

[TerryMathews]

Lol! Wow! You've gone full retard!

Care to explain?

You do understand that VA is acting in this situation as both health insurance and service provider?

 

[ivwshane]

Care to explain?

You do understand that VA is acting in this situation as both health insurance and service provider?

Do I care to explain how insurance companies have been doing worse, for decades, than making someone wait more than 115 days?

No, I don't feel like explaining something that should be common knowledge for anyone with average intelligence who has been paying even the slightest bit of attention to the US healthcare system.

 

[Cozarkian]

Remember when we found out the VA was wasting money with excessive costs for their HR conference? (http://veterans.house.gov/va-conference-expenditures-under-investigation)

That should have been a neon sign for Shineski and Obama that the organization needed to be closely scrutinized. They failed to heed that warning.

 

[TerryMathews]

Do I care to explain how insurance companies have been doing worse, for decades, than making someone wait more than 115 days?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Regardless of the evils that health insurance companies do in the name of profit, and there are plenty, they cannot force you to wait 115+ days before you see your primary care physician.

 

[ivwshane]

Do you not understand how message boards work? I responded to your "irrelevant" post, you jackass!

And then you have the nerve to double down on your same point! Lol! You are one dumb motherfucker!

That is the advantage of decoupling payment from service. Your insurance company can't make you wait 115 days for an appointment.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Regardless of the evils that health insurance companies do in the name of profit, and there are plenty, they cannot force you to wait 115+ days before you see your primary care physician.

 

[Fern]

Still see people claiming that the VA's problems are a lack of funding.

The Obama administration’s Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) expects to have more money for medical care than it can spend for the fifth fiscal year in a row, The Daily Caller has learned.

VA expects to carry over $450 million in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2014 to fiscal year 2015. VA received its full requested medical care appropriation of $54.6 billion this fiscal year, which is more than $10 billion more than it received four years ago.

This is part of an ongoing trend.

VA carried over $1.449 billion in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2010 to 2011, $1.163 billion from fiscal year 2011 to fiscal year 2012, $637 million from fiscal year 2012 to 2013, and $543 million from fiscal year 2013 to 2014.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...are-funding-than-it-can-spend-for-fifth-year/

The VA also has lots of job openings it is not filling:

Despite rampant allegations of veterans stuck in limbo waiting for care, hundreds of jobs remain unfilled at the Department of Veterans Affairs -- including at some of the very locations where doctors supposedly were too short-staffed to see patients.

A search by FoxNews.com on Friday of the USA Jobs federal employment website showed more than 1,080 current vacancies in health-related fields at the VA.

A search of the words “VA” and “physician” yielded 167 jobs openings with top-range salaries of roughly $295,000 a year. There are 18 openings alone in the Phoenix VA Health Care System – the same one facing allegations that up to 40 people died while waiting for treatment.

One full-time position is for the chief of medicine. The vacancy, posted April 15 and open until June 13, comes with an annual salary up to $235,000.

Pete Hegseth, CEO of Concerned Veterans for America, questioned why the department didn't better prepare for the returning veterans by staffing up.

“These are self-inflicted wounds. This isn’t a money issue. This is a prioritization issue,” he said. "They knew there were going to be more veterans who needed care. Why didn't they prepare?"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ted-at-va-hospitals-clinics-as-scandal-grows/

This looks like a management problem within the VA. There's no real reason to look further. (More funding won't help if you cannot spend what you've already got.)

Fern

 

[JEDIYoda]

Remember when we found out the VA was wasting money with excessive costs for their HR conference? (http://veterans.house.gov/va-confere...-investigation)

That should have been a neon sign for Shineski and Obama that the organization needed to be closely scrutinized. They failed to heed that warning.

yada yada yada

 

[Cozarkian]

yada yada yada

Thank you for the implied admission that my argument of prior notice was both valid and sound.

 

[TerryMathews]

Do you not understand how message boards work? I responded to your "irrelevant" post, you jackass!

And then you have the nerve to double down on your same point! Lol! You are one dumb motherfucker!

My post was entirely relevant. You have yet to do anything but attack like a rabid dog.

Maybe they'll let you run the VA next? Seems as though you're qualified.

 

[boomerang]

I for one am happy that President Obama watches television. If not for TV he would be clueless as what is happening all around him.

TV watching does dovetail well with his capabilities.

The Being There President

 

[OutHouse]

Do I care to explain how insurance companies have been doing worse, for decades, than making someone wait more than 115 days?

what is your point? that its not a big deal? that one washes out the other?

 

[OutHouse]

TV watching does dovetail well with his capabilities.

The Being There President

lol

Charles Krauthammer wrote “the man comes from nowhere with a track record as thin as Chauncey Gardiner’s”

 

[werepossum]

I see no earthly reason to give Obama a pass whatsoever. Obama, as a Senator and a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee Obama knew of the problems with the VA. In 2007 he said the following: “Keeping faith with those who serve must always be a core American value and a cornerstone of American patriotism. Because America’s commitment to its servicemen and women begins at enlistment, and it must never end.”

In 2008 as President-elect, he was once again made aware of the issues with the VA. Obama nominated Shinseki in December of 2008 and Shinseki was sworn in as Secretary of Veterans Affairs in January of 2009. Obama rightly delegated the work related to the VA to Shinseki. That's it, the end, until recently when the shit hit the fan.

Obama delegated the work and did not follow up to see if the work was being done. He was very willing to double the budget for the VA, but what was being done with the funds and the efficacy of those funds, well, it wasn't anything that concerned him. Shinseki is his employee and Obama appears to have chosen not to supervise him in any manner.

Was Obama lied to by Shinseki? Did Obama trust in him so implicitly that he chose to not oversee his ministrations?

Shinseki is in the employ of Obama and as such that puts some responsibilities on Obama. Responsibilities that he evidently chose to ignore.

You own your own business. If you do not supervise your employees and the work is getting done in the correct priority, in a timely manner with the quality you and your customers expect and such that it generates you a profit well hats off to you. But I'm betting that it takes some intervention on your part. It's your business and you know that it needs guidance and direction to remain afloat while meeting the goals you expect it to meet.

Obama is the CEO of the government of this nation. He has responsibilities in that position the same as you do as the owner of your business. Does Obama deserve a pass because he failed to assume his responsibilities? Not for one single solitary second. And he needs to act like a President. A little wimpy speech isn't going to cut it. A borderline bizarre commencement speech in front of the graduating class of West Point is not going to cut it. He needs to roll up his sleeves, get dirty and quit worrying about getting a little on him. If he was as smart as so many feel he is, he'd realize that there is a whole lot on him already.

He's not soaring with Eagles because he's hired a bunch of Turkeys he is unwilling to hold accountable. Time for Obama to man up.

Obama did get some more money for the VA. People at each level create reports which get passed up the chain of command. From those, more reports are generated. Eventually those reports reach Shinseki, who summarizes them for Obama. I'm imagining "Providing health care for vets is good, m'kay?" But in whatever level of detail, Obama gets reports based on reports based on reports - it's turtles all the way down. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the President to investigate whether those reports represent the truth - that should have been determined long before his level. Now that he's undoubtedly aware that the reports are NOT the truth, he owns the scandal, but he has to be allowed some time to react as any immediate reaction will probably be the wrong reaction.

If Obama is okay with government functioning like this, then not much will be done besides yet another investigation, calls for more money, and a few bureaucrats retiring early or transferring. In that case I'm all for calling for Obama's balls as at that point, he owns the behavior and is obviously okay with it. If however we see prosecutions and wholesale firing of VA employees, then Obama has done a good thing. But it will take a week or three to know the first who need to be prosecuted and/or fired, and probably a few months to find them all. Assuming anyone really looks.

Put it this way - I am one of the owners of my company. If I give something to an engineer or designer and she tells me it is done, I'll tell the managing partners it's done. If I have to go behind her to see if she's telling me the truth, then I don't need her. (Which is not to say I expect anyone to be infallible; people do make honest mistakes.) That's one very small company. There are many, many VA levels below Obama. At some point you have to accept that you're being told the truth unless you have evidence to the contrary.

I don't see the point in having Shinseki resign. Sure, the buck stops at the top, but unless it is established he had any sort of culpability in this or was trying to cover it up, why should he be a sacrificial lamb? He's head of an agency with a budget in the hundreds of billions and which employs 340+K people. An organization that size IS going to have problems, and no leader is going to be able to prevent them all.

I can extend some of what I said about Obama to Shinseki, but not all. Shinseki is making representations to Obama about VA operations. At this point we have to assume (since Shinseki had not resigned before this came to light) that those representations were of acceptable performance. Clearly that is not the truth; VA operations are NOT acceptable. I'm not calling for Shinseki's resignation, but I can certainly understand such calls. When one makes reports to the President, one has an absolute duty to make sure those reports are accurate. That is Shinseki's duty, and while I wish Obama had set in place independent verification given the benefit of hindsight, that also has a negative effect, effectively telling Shinseki I believe you might be either incompetent or dishonest. Shinseki on the other hand should have been setting up independent verification of what he tells the President. Going back to my own company, that's no different than the managing partners periodically asking clients how we're doing or me asking clients the same thing. It's the responsible thing to do as even with the highest ethical standards, it's possible for one party to believe everything is fine while the client is not so copacetic.

I for one am happy that President Obama watches television. If not for TV he would be clueless as what is happening all around him.

lol +1

 

[marincounty]

Haha. And Obama is far smarter than the idiot from Texas who wrecked our country.
Bush had never been out of the United States when he became president, with the exception of Mexico.
But he did have a failed oil business.
Take comfort in the fact that he was the first convicted criminal president.

 

[Jaskalas]

As with werepossum, I believe the President can respond to the VA's failings in an effective way. One that would be commendable if he actually accomplishes the task of cleaning it up.

It is disgraceful that he campaigned against VA failures and then failed to do anything about it, but the President can come out on top of this and prevail in the end. All he has to do is the right thing, and history would remember him as the one who made government work.

 

[ivwshane]

what is your point? that its not a big deal? that one washes out the other?

My point being, that's it's not "the advantage of decoupling payment from service. Your insurance company can't make you wait 115 days for an appointment" because it happens in the private insurance industry as well.

His post was pointless and pure ideological bullshit and I called him on it. Now he's mad that I responded to his irrelevant post. Lol

 

[Mursilis]

The Washington Post ran an article a few weeks back about the former head of GSA, Martha Johnson, who was forced to resign following the Las Vegas convention scandal. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tha-johnsons-fast-fall-from-power-at-the-gsa/) The article portrayed her resignation as classic scapegoating, the firing of someone simply to see someone, anyone, get fired for a gov't SNAFU. The sad part was, she could've tried to cover up the scandal when it first came to light, but she really did want to update and modernize the agency and make it more accountable, so she ordered an investigation and allowed all the facts to come to light. For trying to make gov't more efficient and accountable, she was forced to resign. When Johnson was called before Congress to testify regarding this scandal, Rep. James Lankford (R-Okla.) noted: “You resigned, though your office is the office that actually started this investigation. This would not have come to light unless your office would’ve started it. But as the leader at the top, you resigned,” he said. “And people that were directly there making the decisions, signing onto the warrants, going through these fraudulent contracts, they’re still there.”

Classic Washington. I hope the people calling for Shinseki to resign make sure he's actually culpable for sort of maleficence before they put his head on a pike.

 

[K1052]

I can extend some of what I said about Obama to Shinseki, but not all. Shinseki is making representations to Obama about VA operations. At this point we have to assume (since Shinseki had not resigned before this came to light) that those representations were of acceptable performance. Clearly that is not the truth; VA operations are NOT acceptable. I'm not calling for Shinseki's resignation, but I can certainly understand such calls. When one makes reports to the President, one has an absolute duty to make sure those reports are accurate. That is Shinseki's duty, and while I wish Obama had set in place independent verification given the benefit of hindsight, that also has a negative effect, effectively telling Shinseki I believe you might be either incompetent or dishonest. Shinseki on the other hand should have been setting up independent verification of what he tells the President. Going back to my own company, that's no different than the managing partners periodically asking clients how we're doing or me asking clients the same thing. It's the responsible thing to do as even with the highest ethical standards, it's possible for one party to believe everything is fine while the client is not so copacetic.

I really don't think Shinseki knew what was going on. More troubling though is be why their internal IG was in the dark for so long until somebody blew the whistle externally. Didn't they think to occasionally audit facilities for metrics they receive bonuses on to make sure they are on the up and up?

They should be canning the administrators and staff who manipulated data in their favor. The next question is if everyone is doing it are the VA procedures and resources for handling this workflow actually effective....I'm going with a no on this one. I can see how it would be easier for people to circumvent the system rather than have to be the ones to tell the VA that they over-promised on timing based on the system that is in place once the word came down that it would always be two weeks.