Obama knew about VA issues in 2008

[TerryMathews]

Oh, is it the time of year that rightwingers pretend to care about veterans again?

Blanket funding the VA without any sort of metrics or goals != supporting veterans.

 

[JEDIYoda]

thanks for coming out as the partisan hack you make me out to be. <--- which you are! You are right about one thing!! Wanna try for 2??

I bet you wouldn't care if Obama raped your mother. It would somehow be Bush's fault in your pea brain mind. <-- the problem with you is when you cannot refute something you play this game called changing the subject....BTW your mom told me to say HELLO!!

you still are not getting a Republican President so give it up...hahahaa

 

[TerryMathews]

you still are not getting a Republican President so give it up...hahahaa

After 8 years of Obama, the country wouldn't be ready for a President who told the truth anyway.

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm late to this thread, but this first page is a riot. Conservatards being owned once again.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Good stuff.

 

[michal1980]

I'm late to this thread, but this first page is a riot. Conservatards being owned once again.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Good stuff.

owed by what?

The lmsm once again burying a story for their guy?

 

[Pens1566]

I wonder if OP realized that Obama wasn't president in '08 before he posted the thread. I'm guessing no.

 

[cabri]

I wonder if OP realized that Obama wasn't president in '08 before he posted the thread. I'm guessing no.

I'm late to this thread, but this first page is a riot. Conservatards being owned once again.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Good stuff.

President or President Elect, he was aware of the situation in '08 and had done nothing about it since taking office in '09.

What he said was a priority was swept under the rug.

 

[boomerang]

I wonder if OP realized that Obama wasn't president in '08 before he posted the thread. I'm guessing no.

You don't actually think that the President-elect finds that he has a really, really busy day that first day in office, do you? The President-elect starts getting briefed and up to speed shortly after winning the election. There is lots to learn and little time to learn it.

That's how it came to pass that Obama was briefed on the situation with the VA prior to taking office. It should have come with few surprises because as Senator, he was a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee. Despite rarely attending the meetings of the committee, he still would have received documentation that other members received. Now, whether he read any of it or not is a different matter. Personally, I doubt that he did. He has a tendency to slough off anything that is not in his face screaming for attention.

 

[werepossum]

President or President Elect, he was aware of the situation in '08 and had done nothing about it since taking office in '09.

What he said was a priority was swept under the rug.

Obama saying this was a priority = Obama is a liar = Obama is a politician.

He threw some money at the problem, assuming when he got good reports that the money fixed the problem when in fact the problem is more corruption and an inherently inefficient bureaucracy than lack of funds. If the reports reaching his desk show acceptable wait times, I don't know we can really blame this on Obama.

Now Obama either makes heads roll and prosecutes those who falsified the waiting lists, or he owns the scandal.

 

[ivwshane]

Obama saying this was a priority = Obama is a liar = Obama is a politician.

He threw some money at the problem, assuming when he got good reports that the money fixed the problem when in fact the problem is more corruption and an inherently inefficient bureaucracy than lack of funds. If the reports reaching his desk show acceptable wait times, I don't know we can really blame this on Obama.

Now Obama either makes heads roll and prosecutes those who falsified the waiting lists, or he owns the scandal.

Now this is something we can agree on.

 

[TerryMathews]

Now this is something we can agree on.

Thirded

 

[cabri]

Obama saying this was a priority = Obama is a liar = Obama is a politician.

He threw some money at the problem, assuming when he got good reports that the money fixed the problem when in fact the problem is more corruption and an inherently inefficient bureaucracy than lack of funds. If the reports reaching his desk show acceptable wait times, I don't know we can really blame this on Obama.

Now Obama either makes heads roll and prosecutes those who falsified the waiting lists, or he owns the scandal.

Not going to happen based on his track record.
What heads has he sliced off for anything? He may allow a few to slip out the door and that is it.

He faithful followers will state that the problem existed under previous administrations; therefore Obama is not to blame for it.

Ignoring his words that it will be a priority.

 

[werepossum]

Not going to happen based on his track record.
What heads has he sliced off for anything? He may allow a few to slip out the door and that is it.

He faithful followers will state that the problem existed under previous administrations; therefore Obama is not to blame for it.

Ignoring his words that it will be a priority.

With virtually any politician, what he promises is nearly 100% what his advisers tell him to say to get elected. We reward this. I think Obama's actually been better than most about fulfilling campaign promises - which sucks for me since I didn't like much of what he promised or what he's done - but typically neither side's nominee gives a shit about veterans. There are exceptions, such as Dole or Duncan Hunter, but they seldom become the nominee. We don't make it a winning issue.

If Obama cans a couple people who had already announced their retirement, makes a couple of concerned/borderline pissed thumb-pointing speeches, and proposes throwing a little more money at the problem, that's sadly about average for politicians. If he stonewalls whilst patting himself on the back for what he's already done, then he owns it and this is how he prefers things. If he really takes sensible action to solve the problem . . .

Hmm, I don't really have a response for a politician doing that . . .

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I did go through the IDES process... If you're seriously injuried/disability while serving in the military, you get med boarded. While med boarded, you cannot be separated so you continue with your military health care at your base. If you have over 30% military connected disability (anyone seriously disabled will), you keep tricare, which means you keep your doctors so it doesn't matter how long the VA takes to finish your claim you're still getting health care and you're collecting retirement pay (it's likely less than VA pay granted if you haven't spent a lot of time in although you'll get back payed once the VA is done).

 

[boomerang]

Calls for the resignation or firing of Shinseki have intensified along with calls for involvement of the DOJ and the FBI.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...retary-should-be-fired-for-lying-to-congress/

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/...al-calls-for-resignation-107174.html?hp=l1_b1

 

[rudder]

Calls for the resignation or firing of Shinseki have intensified along with calls for involvement of the DOJ and the FBI.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...retary-should-be-fired-for-lying-to-congress/

People need to be in jail. We have VA executives lying about having masters degrees to finding out that $450 million in medical care funding is rolling over from 2014 to the 2015 fiscal year. The money was there....just gross negligence.

Making matters worse is the increase of adjustment disorder discharges that are climbing. Having this means you are discharged without benefits. A lot of these servicemen being designated as such should be listed as having PTSD.

 

[K1052]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/us/veterans-groups-lash-out-at-republican-senator.html?_r=0

For another perspective on this issue it seems many of the veterans groups aren't appreciative of being turned into campaign fodder by people who block bills to expand VA services.

 

[Victorian Gray]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/us/veterans-groups-lash-out-at-republican-senator.html?_r=0

For another perspective on this issue it seems many of the veterans groups aren't appreciative of being turned into campaign fodder by people who block bills to expand VA services.

Reading that article, it goes beyond being made a campaign issue, it's also the direct and personal attack on all the veterans groups outside of the American Legion. It's basically, get on board with the G.O.P. 'party line' or get the hell out.

 

[K1052]

Reading that article, it goes beyond being made a campaign issue, it's also the direct and personal attack on all the veterans groups outside of the American Legion. It's basically, get on board with the G.O.P. 'party line' or get the hell out.

Well they did pretty much tell him where he could file his letter...

This is a tricky issue for the GOP to be riding. Most of the veterans groups aren't going to be up for being used as puppets to attack the Dems unless the GOP starts making good on things they want...which costs $$$. They aren't likely to buy into the recent fund some thing/cut something GOP budget model as an excuse for further lack of progress.

 

[werepossum]

Calls for the resignation or firing of Shinseki have intensified along with calls for involvement of the DOJ and the FBI.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...retary-should-be-fired-for-lying-to-congress/

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/...al-calls-for-resignation-107174.html?hp=l1_b1

I can see that. I can give Obama a pass until we see what he does or does not do, but Shinseki was the man in charge; it's his responsibility to see that the reports are accurate and the money is being spent wisely. And there definitely needs to be some intense investigations and prosecutions.

People need to be in jail. We have VA executives lying about having masters degrees to finding out that $450 million in medical care funding is rolling over from 2014 to the 2015 fiscal year. The money was there....just gross negligence.

Making matters worse is the increase of adjustment disorder discharges that are climbing. Having this means you are discharged without benefits. A lot of these servicemen being designated as such should be listed as having PTSD.

I agree totally. That's pure fraud, and should be fully prosecuted as such. Same with falsifying records and reports to make oneself look better, with or without bonuses.

"Adjustment disorder" just sounds weaselly. There are an astounding number of full and partial disabilities coming out of the military, but if one has served in an actual combat zone, one deserves a lot of latitude.

 

[boomerang]

I can see that. I can give Obama a pass until we see what he does or does not do, but Shinseki was the man in charge; it's his responsibility to see that the reports are accurate and the money is being spent wisely. And there definitely needs to be some intense investigations and prosecutions.

I see no earthly reason to give Obama a pass whatsoever. Obama, as a Senator and a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee Obama knew of the problems with the VA. In 2007 he said the following: “Keeping faith with those who serve must always be a core American value and a cornerstone of American patriotism. Because America’s commitment to its servicemen and women begins at enlistment, and it must never end.”

In 2008 as President-elect, he was once again made aware of the issues with the VA. Obama nominated Shinseki in December of 2008 and Shinseki was sworn in as Secretary of Veterans Affairs in January of 2009. Obama rightly delegated the work related to the VA to Shinseki. That's it, the end, until recently when the shit hit the fan.

Obama delegated the work and did not follow up to see if the work was being done. He was very willing to double the budget for the VA, but what was being done with the funds and the efficacy of those funds, well, it wasn't anything that concerned him. Shinseki is his employee and Obama appears to have chosen not to supervise him in any manner.

Was Obama lied to by Shinseki? Did Obama trust in him so implicitly that he chose to not oversee his ministrations?

Shinseki is in the employ of Obama and as such that puts some responsibilities on Obama. Responsibilities that he evidently chose to ignore.

You own your own business. If you do not supervise your employees and the work is getting done in the correct priority, in a timely manner with the quality you and your customers expect and such that it generates you a profit well hats off to you. But I'm betting that it takes some intervention on your part. It's your business and you know that it needs guidance and direction to remain afloat while meeting the goals you expect it to meet.

Obama is the CEO of the government of this nation. He has responsibilities in that position the same as you do as the owner of your business. Does Obama deserve a pass because he failed to assume his responsibilities? Not for one single solitary second. And he needs to act like a President. A little wimpy speech isn't going to cut it. A borderline bizarre commencement speech in front of the graduating class of West Point is not going to cut it. He needs to roll up his sleeves, get dirty and quit worrying about getting a little on him. If he was as smart as so many feel he is, he'd realize that there is a whole lot on him already.

He's not soaring with Eagles because he's hired a bunch of Turkeys he is unwilling to hold accountable. Time for Obama to man up.

 

[Mursilis]

Making matters worse is the increase of adjustment disorder discharges that are climbing. Having this means you are discharged without benefits. A lot of these servicemen being designated as such should be listed as having PTSD.

I believe that's incorrect - adjustment disorders are still recognized DSM diagnoses and as such qualify for VA benefits, the same as if you were discharged with a PTSD diagnosis. The only mental disorders specifically excluded from VA benefits are personality disorders, which used to be diagnosed all the time to get rid of malcontents who suddenly realized enlisting was a big mistake, but is rarer these days.

 

[unokitty]

CNN

At least 1,700 military veterans waiting to see a doctor were never scheduled for an appointment and were never placed on a wait list at the Veterans Affairs medical center in Phoenix, raising the question of just how many may have been "forgotten or lost" in the system, according to a preliminary report made public Wednesday...

The report also found "numerous allegations" of "daily of mismanagement, inappropriate hiring decisions, sexual harassment, and bullying behavior by mid- and senior-level managers."

Inspector General: Veterans wait 115 days for care in Phoenix Veterans Affairs system

More than 3,000 military veterans were found waiting for an appointment with a primary care physician in the Phoenix Veterans Affairs system, with 1,700 left in limbo by being excluded from an electronic waiting list, an inspector general has found.

As many as 40 veterans died waiting for care at the Phoenix center...

According to Phoenix senior officials, veterans waited an average 24 days for their first appointment with a primary care physician, but the IG found that in reality, the 226 veterans waited an average of 115 days for a first appointment.

Investigation of a single VA medical center in Phoenix reveals a few dozen vets dying before they can see a doctor, an average wait time for an appointment of 115 days, and 1700 vets being excluded from an electronic waiting list.

The impact of these revelations thus far?
One administrator had their retirement moved up by a couple of weeks... LOL

A hypothetical question.
In a government run system where no one is accountable for anything. Is it rational to expect any other result?

Another hypothetical question.
Since Obama doesn't view veterans as a group that votes for him, why should he spend political capital making sure that veterans get the medical care that was promised them?

Still another hypothetical question.
Does the US government's response to this indicate that we have a president that is a chief executive officer or do we have a chief politician? That is, Is it appropriate to expect a politician to respond as if he were a chief executive?

Uno

 

[TerryMathews]

CNN Inspector General: Veterans wait 115 days for care in Phoenix Veterans Affairs system Investigation of a single VA medical center in Phoenix reveals a few dozen vets dying before they can see a doctor, an average wait time for an appointment of 115 days, and 1700 vets being excluded from an electronic waiting list.

The impact of these revelations thus far?
One administrator had their retirement moved up by a couple of weeks... LOL

A question.
In a government run system where no one is accountable for anything. Is it rational to expect any other result?

Another question.
Since Obama doesn't view veterans as a group that votes for him, why should he spend political capital making sure that veterans get the medical care that was promised them?

Uno

I think it's also important to note that these employees who decided to deny service to 1700+ vets do not in any way constitute a death panel... :whistle:

 

[Mursilis]

I don't see the point in having Shinseki resign. Sure, the buck stops at the top, but unless it is established he had any sort of culpability in this or was trying to cover it up, why should he be a sacrificial lamb? He's head of an agency with a budget in the hundreds of billions and which employs 340+K people. An organization that size IS going to have problems, and no leader is going to be able to prevent them all.