Obama is a complete failure when it comes to unemployment and jobs

[Brutus1787]

Because consumption based taxes are incredibly unstable. You would end up with wild revenue swings, which is a horrible way to fund things.

Exactly my point. The return to Constitutional boundaries. In order to fund a program it would have to be through the ballot box, through a sales tax increase. This would also reduce the size of the government.

 

[her209]

Manufacturing jobs have taken a HUGE hit...

During Bush's administration

During Obama's administration

 

[Engineer]

So we added 1.6 million government jobs in the country with Bush and have lost 331,000 government jobs under Obama. Lol at the irony of that!

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly my point. The return to Constitutional boundaries. In order to fund a program it would have to be through the ballot box, through a sales tax increase. This would also reduce the size of the government.

That has nothing to do with constitutional government. (the income tax is explicitly constitutional.) Our programs are already funded through the ballot box, that's the whole point of representative government you realize, right?

You're just advocating for an insanely terrible revenue system that would lead to huge boom and bust cycles. It would be the height of irresponsible governance.

 

[fskimospy]

So we added 1.6 million government jobs in the country with Bush and have lost 331,000 government jobs under Obama. Lol at the irony of that!

Yeap, if it weren't for the growth in government jobs under Bush he would have presided over a net loss in US jobs over 8 years.

 

[Engineer]

Yeap, if it weren't for the growth in government jobs under Bush he would have presided over a net loss in US jobs over 8 years.

Chart shows net 99,000 jobs over 8 years. Pretty close to break even from the looks of it.

 

[her209]

So we added 1.6 million government jobs in the country with Bush and have lost 331,000 government jobs under Obama. Lol at the irony of that!

The government figure is for jobs at all levels of government, but I doubt Federal government jobs was on the negative side.

 

[fskimospy]

Chart shows net 99,000 jobs over 8 years. Pretty close to break even from the looks of it.

Hmmm, some of it depends on how you're judging the numbers. The estimates I've seen were more on the side of about +1 million jobs. Either way you look at it Bush had a catastrophically bad presidency from an economic standpoint. Sure glad all those tax cuts for the rich made so many jobs!

Maybe if we just cut them a little more the rich people will let us work for them.

 

[Engineer]

Hmmm, some of it depends on how you're judging the numbers. The estimates I've seen were more on the side of about +1 million jobs. Either way you look at it Bush had a catastrophically bad presidency from an economic standpoint. Sure glad all those tax cuts for the rich made so many jobs!

Maybe if we just cut them a little more the rich people will let us work for them.

I was talking about a net 99,000 after government jobs were subtracted from total jobs gained.

 

[her209]

Hmmm, some of it depends on how you're judging the numbers. The estimates I've seen were more on the side of about +1 million jobs. Either way you look at it Bush had a catastrophically bad presidency from an economic standpoint. Sure glad all those tax cuts for the rich made so many jobs!

Maybe if we just cut them a little more the rich people will let us work for them.

The numbers are pulled straight out of the BLS reports.

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/laus_nr.htm

 

[fskimospy]

I was talking about a net 99,000 after government jobs were subtracted from total jobs gained.

Oh, other numbers I've seen would actually put him at ~ -600,000 after government jobs were taken into account. Again though, it all depends on how you count jobs.

 

[her209]

Here's a sobering statistic:

In June 2007, the last time the unemployment rate was at its lowest point (4.4&#37.

We still lost nearly 4 million manufacturing jobs at that point.

**The numbers in red have incomplete data so I set them to 0 and marked them red.

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe if we just cut them a little more the rich people will let us work for them.

Actually, they seem to want to go back to a very, very conservative way of doing things, as in medieval times, where the serfs just paid "taxes" directly to the titled nobility, who were the govt. And they weren't shy at all about sending out guys with swords to collect, breaking a few scofflaws on the wheel just to prove their point...

Yep, the good old days, when the idea of democracy was sedition, punishable by death, and there weren't any illusions as to who was running things & why...

 

[blackangst1]

That has nothing to do with constitutional government. (the income tax is explicitly constitutional.) Our programs are already funded through the ballot box, that's the whole point of representative government you realize, right?

You're just advocating for an insanely terrible revenue system that would lead to huge boom and bust cycles. It would be the height of irresponsible governance.

I dont agree with you often, but in this case youre right on.

 

[HendrixFan]

I was talking about a net 99,000 after government jobs were subtracted from total jobs gained.

Does that take into account population growth?

 

[her209]

Does that take into account population growth?

No. Its straight number of employees.

Table 5. Employees on nonfarm payrolls by state and selected industry sector, seasonally adjusted

 

[Engineer]

Does that take into account population growth?

No, just number of jobs (as far as I can tell)...the table isn't net with respect to population, it's simply net jobs. 99,000 private sector jobs NET in 8 years with nothing about population over those 8 years.

 

[theevilsharpie]

So Reagan took an economy where there hadn't been jobs for 6 straight years and some how created millions of them.
Obama took an economy that had jobs for almost two decades and yet he can't seem to create any new ones.

Obama is a total failure on the job front. History proves it.

The economy has undergone a structural change that has seen a huge number of well-paying jobs for unskilled or lightly-skilled workers vanish as organizations find that they can do without them via automation and other productivity improvements.

In light of this, Obama has pushed for, among other things:
- funding of "shovel-ready" projects to ease the unemployment in construction and related industries until they get out of their slump
- an increase in the amount of aid given to community colleges so that people who have seen their careers obsoleted can retrain for skills that are more in demand
- increasing investments in so-called "advanced manufacturing" which is an area of manufacturing that the US excels at.

Corporations have culled millions from their payrolls, yet are making record profits. In other words, there are currently millions of people that have provided no economic value to their previous employers. Indeed, almost half of those unemployed in the US today have been so for more than a year. How do you expect Obama to get these people jobs using anything short of a WPA-style jobs program, which Republicans would never put up with?

If you think Obama is such a failure, what were you expecting of him that he hasn't already done?

 

[Jhhnn]

If you think Obama is such a failure, what were you expecting of him that he hasn't already done?

They want his long form birth certificate. They want OBL dead. They want Obama to cut taxes. They want to keep the Evil Ones locked up in Gitmo. They want him to lay off govt workers. They want a Republican healthcare plan.

They got all that stuff, but they don't seem to remember...

They want a bigger military with a smaller govt.

They want to create employment by laying people off.

They want everybody to get a job, when there aren't any.

The want an end to the Welfare State, just keep those SS checks & medicare payments coming.

They want the govt to default on its debt yet suffer no ill effects from that.

They want rather desperately for everything to be OK, for the policies they've supported of the last 30 years to not be a failure, to not have to re-evaluate at all, to blame themselves, because they just know, despite all the evidence, that they've been oh so right all along. They still have Faith- They still Believe, in lies, and they always will.

 

[BarneyFife]

Let me guess this straight. Profjohn got a USDA mortgage (Does it come with a steak?) and he's Republican? LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Just another misguided idiot.

 

[BarneyFife]

They want his long form birth certificate. They want OBL dead. They want Obama to cut taxes. They want to keep the Evil Ones locked up in Gitmo. They want him to lay off govt workers. They want a Republican healthcare plan.

They got all that stuff, but they don't seem to remember...

They want a bigger military with a smaller govt.

They want to create employment by laying people off.

They want everybody to get a job, when there aren't any.

The want an end to the Welfare State, just keep those SS checks & medicare payments coming.

They want the govt to default on its debt yet suffer no ill effects from that.

They want rather desperately for everything to be OK, for the policies they've supported of the last 30 years to not be a failure, to not have to re-evaluate at all, to blame themselves, because they just know, despite all the evidence, that they've been oh so right all along. They still have Faith- They still Believe, in lies, and they always will.

Even our resident Republicans can't argue these facts. We went from the #1 nation in the world to fuck fellow man,outsource everything to China, change company HQ to the Cayman Islands so not to pay taxes, lower the taxes for the people making $1 bil a year etc...

Its unbelievable how greedy these people are. The big statement coming out of our USDA loan guy and the top 20% Republican is that half the people in this country don't pay taxes. Of course they don't, they have no income because you took all their jobs to China. Remember, 10 years ago on this forum how you guys said how great outsourcing is? That these were crappy jobs being sent to India and China and we will create the good jobs here. Well guess what, all these so called jobs don't exist. The real terrorists of this country are the corporations who fuck Americans over for mega profits.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Its unbelievable how greedy these people are . . . The real terrorists of this country are the corporations who fuck Americans over for mega profits.

Lulz. Greedy American corporations have moved their manufacturing operations offshore and cut wages for their domestic operations as much as possible because greedy American unions demand higher and higher wages while greedy American consumers demand lower and lower prices. If American corporations didn't do everything possible to minimize their overhead, greedy foreign corporations would, and the American corporations would be out of business.

Every player in the game is looking to increase their profits. Greed is the entire driving force behind capitalism.

 

[ProfJohn]

That's a terrible list because it is mostly things that have been moved to automated overseas factories making plastic junk on slave wages, along with vast technical innovations to also contribute to keeping costs down.

If you want a real economic indicator list, compare these over time

Click the link it includes all kinds of awesome stuff
http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/15824.aspx

 

[ProfJohn]

No please, do elaborate on the poor and their bigger houses and cars and better food. What other benefits do you see the poor reaping?

It sounds like you really have a handle on what it is like to be poor, so your insights would surely help educate everyone reading here.

Look at any chart or study.

The poor have more household possessions today than they did 50,40,30,20 years ago.
Look at this chart. The poor in 2005 are more likely to have a dryer, dishwasher, air conditioner and a color TV than the average American was in 1971.

In 1971 less than half of Americans had a color tv, today 97% of the poor have one.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SxHgynoVpdI/AAAAAAAAMAo/nFF6xFEr4kY/s1600/household1.jpg
Anyone who was actually alive during the 70s should be able to tell you how much nicer things are today than then.

 

[ProfJohn]

But I swear, he doesn't listen to Rush! I have no idea if he does or not, but at my old job the coworker next to me used to listen to Rush every day, and I remember on several occasions thinking 'I just heard this same line of shit on the radio'. That could be due to the fact that right wing media closely collaborates on pushing messages though.

I haven't listened to Rush on a regular basis in years. My job doesn't allow it.

I actually listen to NPR more than Rush these days, but that was due to the timing of my commute. I am never in the car while Rush is on the radio, perhaps a couple of hours a month at most.