Obama is a complete failure when it comes to unemployment and jobs

[HendrixFan]

Stuff made in China is cheaper, we get that. Read up on Elizabeth Warren, there is a video on youtube of a speech she gives outlining the "falling wages" of the middle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

 

[IGBT]

this failed economy belongs to the obama. His finger prints are all over it. He told you early on it would be a jobless recovery to cover his arse. And you clowns bought it.

 

[UberNeuman]

Why do you guys keep falling for this crap??

Your postings... they bring to mind that of a slug being covered in salt...

 

[Engineer]

The Myth That Is Falling Real Wages
Lots of great charts if you want to look.

Here is a great one

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/15824.aspx

and non of those items are now made in the US. Yay!!!

What good does it do to compare items that were once made here that are now made outside the US?

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that productivity has given us these real price increase purchasing power. Where do we go from here? Do you think that we can increase productivity that much more over the next period?

All of this productivity is moving more and more money to those at the top and less to the middle and bottom. Once it can't be squeezed more, it moves offshore to cheaper labor. As their labor moves up, productivity gains in the US are moved there (i.e. robots, etc) and the cycle continues from country to country. The US people lose even more and time goes on.

But of course, we have great service jobs and unending real wage increase so life is good.

 

[UberNeuman]

Cute but...

I own a house (and it doesn't have a basement)

Am I totally wrong - but did you not use a government program to help you in purchasing this house?

\if I'm wrong, then I am and apologize...

 

[Brutus1787]

and non of those items are now made in the US. Yay!!!

What good does it do to compare items that were once made here that are now made outside the US?

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that productivity has given us these real price increase purchasing power. Where do we go from here? Do you think that we can increase productivity that much more over the next period?

All of this productivity is moving more and more money to those at the top and less to the middle and bottom. Once it can't be squeezed more, it moves offshore to cheaper labor. As their labor moves up, productivity gains in the US are moved there (i.e. robots, etc) and the cycle continues from country to country. The US people lose even more and time goes on.

But of course, we have great service jobs and unending real wage increase so life is good.

good points, I wonder if it would also be appropriate to use the purchasing power of gold in order to understand the purchasing power of the dollar. It seems the chart does not take into consideration inflation.

 

[Generator]

Since Saint Reagan the only growth this country has know as been through debt. One could even say that not only is the free market an illusion but so is the façade of an American economy. The ponzi bubble has burst and the void will suck the whole country in.

Obama's reelection? When the country completely bankrupts and the economy is obliterated do you honestly think their will be a presidential solution? When voters go to the polls in 2012 if they can even afford to do so they are going to vote for person who won't tell them to eat shit. The people will not have the luxury of voting in a Republican!

Its food stamp Obama vs Let them eat shit fill in the blank Republican...

 

[umbrella39]

If you ignore it, he won't come...

 

[ProfJohn]

Am I totally wrong - but did you not use a government program to help you in purchasing this house?

\if I'm wrong, then I am and apologize...

Nope. I bought it myself. It was a USDA loan, but I am not sure I would call that a government program anymore than an FHA or VA loan.

I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. I could have bought the house without the program if I had too, besides the USDA program is self funding.

I did get the first time buyers credit though. Only a fool would have turned that down. Government says buy a house and get $8000 so I bought a house. I helped the economy and provided jobs for dozens of people.

 

[ProfJohn]

good points, I wonder if it would also be appropriate to use the purchasing power of gold in order to understand the purchasing power of the dollar. It seems the chart does not take into consideration inflation.

I am pretty sure inflation was taken into consideration.

I am not sure about the 1973 prices, but everyone on the right you can find and buy at that price.

 

[Tsavo]

Stuff made in China is cheaper, we get that. Read up on Elizabeth Warren, there is a video on youtube of a speech she gives outlining the "falling wages" of the middle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

Well fuck, that presentation would have been two minutes long and 900x less annoying if she didn't dwell on parentheticals.

Beyond that, a good listen.

 

[ProfJohn]

All of this productivity is moving more and more money to those at the top and less to the middle and bottom.

This is where we disagree.

Yes the rich are making too much money and getting all the benefits of our productivity gains.
But the poor are seeing some gains too. Bigger houses, more cars, better quality of food etc etc.

The two questions I have are:
1. Is it morally wrong for the people who own the businesses to benefit from their ownership? The people are the top seeing all the gains are the people own the businesses. If I start a company and it makes millions of dollars is it wrong for me to keep most of that money for myself?

and more importantly

2. What can we do as a society to slow down or improve the differences between the top and bottom. CEO pay is one place. Better education and a better business environments so businesses can thrive and create more wealth. Coming up with a way to encourage businesses to treat it employees better and to pay them better too. Beyond that I don't know.

And how much of that should come from the government. CEO pay can be handled via governance reform and the like. But a lot of that you can't and shouldn't legislate.

 

[Arkaign]

The Myth That Is Falling Real Wages
Lots of great charts if you want to look.

Here is a great one

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/15824.aspx

That's a terrible list because it is mostly things that have been moved to automated overseas factories making plastic junk on slave wages, along with vast technical innovations to also contribute to keeping costs down.

If you want a real economic indicator list, compare these over time :

Price of -

Oil
Gasoline
Bread
Milk
A standard passenger car
A standard full-size truck
An average 3-bedroom home
1 night's stay in an average motel (motel 6, la quinta, whatever)
Car insurance
An ounce of gold
A speeding ticket
A ticket to an NFL game
A ticket to a major-act concert

And you'll see widely varying prices.

 

[Engineer]

All of this productivity is moving more and more money to those at the top and less to the middle and bottom.

This is where we disagree.

Yes the rich are making too much money and getting all the benefits of our productivity gains.
But the poor are seeing some gains too. Bigger houses, more cars, better quality of food etc etc.

Yep...looks like the workers are getting some "more" of the share. The poor are being subsidized by government loans (i.e. welfare that's being borrowed and piled onto our national debt). When 50% of the working people pay no federal income tax (and quite a lot get more back in income tax than they pay in), something is wrong.

Maybe we should give those at the top a tax cut so it will trickle down like it's doing now.

If things don't change soon, there will be tax hikes (voted in by the have nots) to give the have nots more money. People will vote theirselves the treasury if it doesn't occur naturally. Bank on it. Of course, that money will then trickle up to the rich but at least some of it made it to the lower/middle class to trickle to begin with.

 

[Uhtrinity]

~ I don't listen to Rush

Says the person who claimed to be a Professor of the University of EIB when he started posting here in 2006.

Obama inherited the worst economy in the last 75 years. I believe it could be better, but it easily could have been much worse. Economists say that the great depression could have been over sooner if the government had provided more stimulus. I hope that we haven't stabbed ourselves in the back by providing too little and cutting it off too soon.

 

[jackstar7]

This is where we disagree.

Yes the rich are making too much money and getting all the benefits of our productivity gains.
But the poor are seeing some gains too. Bigger houses, more cars, better quality of food etc etc.

No please, do elaborate on the poor and their bigger houses and cars and better food. What other benefits do you see the poor reaping?

It sounds like you really have a handle on what it is like to be poor, so your insights would surely help educate everyone reading here.

 

[Engineer]

No please, do elaborate on the poor and their bigger houses and cars and better food. What other benefits do you see the poor reaping?

It sounds like you really have a handle on what it is like to be poor, so your insights would surely help educate everyone reading here.

This should settle it...

I wish! But I am just a poor guy with too much time on his hands.

 

[Brutus1787]

Yep...looks like the workers are getting some "more" of the share. The poor are being subsidized by government loans (i.e. welfare that's being borrowed and piled onto our national debt). When 50% of the working people pay no federal income tax (and quite a lot get more back in income tax than they pay in), something is wrong.

Maybe we should give those at the top a tax cut so it will trickle down like it's doing now.

If things don't change soon, there will be tax hikes (voted in by the have nots) to give the have nots more money. People will vote theirselves the treasury if it doesn't occur naturally. Bank on it. Of course, that money will then trickle up to the rich but at least some of it made it to the lower/middle class to trickle to begin with.

well, there is a problem with the current tax system, it is punitive,coercive,confiscatory,progressive, that supports the redistribution,equality philosophy.
Why not have a consumption tax, in this program government spending would be limited to how it taxed goods. If you tax something you get less of it, raise taxes on goods people buy less, government revenue decreases, government spending decreases.

 

[fskimospy]

Says the person who claimed to be a Professor of the University of EIB when he started posting here in 2006.

What's this?!

 

[Engineer]

What's this?!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=21450522&postcount=13

THE EIB institute of higher learning

(Don't know if that's the same thing though as the person you quoted thinks).

 

[fskimospy]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=21450522&postcount=13

(Don't know if that's the same thing though as the person you quoted thinks).

But I swear, he doesn't listen to Rush! I have no idea if he does or not, but at my old job the coworker next to me used to listen to Rush every day, and I remember on several occasions thinking 'I just heard this same line of shit on the radio'. That could be due to the fact that right wing media closely collaborates on pushing messages though.

 

[fskimospy]

well, there is a problem with the current tax system, it is punitive,coercive,confiscatory,progressive, that supports the redistribution,equality philosophy.
Why not have a consumption tax, in this program government spending would be limited to how it taxed goods. If you tax something you get less of it, raise taxes on goods people buy less, government revenue decreases, government spending decreases.

Because consumption based taxes are incredibly unstable. You would end up with wild revenue swings, which is a horrible way to fund things.

 

[BarneyFife]

The problem is simple. American corporations don't pay taxes and can't live on a $10 bil profit, they want to $20 bil. So in order to accomplish that, they get rid of $10 bil in salaries and there you go, profits are the same. Just cold hearted greed. They want more and more and it won't stop until they take everything from you.

 

[nobodyknows]

Reagan was able to change the mindset of the country in the 1980s.
.

Yeah, The Republican mantra then was to stop inflation. Regan also brought us double digit interest rates and the farm crisis.

Oh for the good old days!!

 

[nobodyknows]

If anything caught up with us it is improvements in productivity.

Then why do they outsource so many jobs?

Face the facts ProJo, you're nothing but an intellectually dishonest political hack.