Obama, "I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, everything."

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JS80
Who cares who was first? They won.

It does matter, because Israel hasn't even existed for a century, and they're surrounded on all sides by people who have been there for over 1000 years.

I seem to recall some book about a guy parting the sea, but that surely must have been only a couple years old.

Actually it was a Tsunami

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.

where do you look?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Zebo
The Prophet Muhammad said: Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying in times of war (which is eternal with infidels and jews); and lying in order to reconcile between people.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Di...section=editorial&col=

And the Bible says that lying is always permitted except when taking an oath. What's your point?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Donny Baker
Yes, but with the USSR we had MAD to keep each other at bay. The situation with Iran is that we're trying to avoid MAD. Granted, Iran isn't quite the adversary the USSR was.

A single nuclear weapon is all the adversary we'd need in order to lose a million+ lives and/or create so much fear as to ruin our economy. They don't have to have an arsenal large enough to cover the planet.

Any more than we have to have fear that would destroy our economy. You project your own childhood catastrophe out onto the world. Terror is for those who are afraid to feel.

"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the Valiant never taste of death but once."

So what is your argument Moonbeam? That a nuclear explosion would kill less people - or that this country wouldn't react in fear? Yeah- I'm sure the markets would just move along as if nothing happened.

I'm really stretching here to make out your post as anything more than trolling. My argument was simple: one doesn't have to be the USSR to inflict great damage. What is yours?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.

where do you look?

common sense

There is no reason for Iran to attack Israel.

hate Jews? Jews are protected inside Iran are living like everyone else. If Iran wanted to kill the Jews it would start at home. Anyone who brings up that argument is an idiot who hates Islam and needs to shove their fanatical religious beliefs up their own ass.

What other reason is there? If Iran wanted to destroy Israel all it has to do is fill those 20,000 rockets Hezbollah has with chemical weapons. What are they going to nuke if they have a nuclear bomb? & why? just to kill Jews? That would be the only reason for Iran to attack Israel.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians inside Israel. There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians outside Israel. Iranian Jews and the Iranian Muslims have respect for each other. They all call themselves Iranian. There is no hate between Iranians and Jews. One thing they all have in common is they all hate Arabs. How many Arab Jews call themselves Arab? Zero.

There is ZERO reason for Iran to attack Israel. The only attack Iran will ever launch on Israel is if they destroy their nuclear plant and the attack will be rockets/missiles.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Donny Baker
Yes, but with the USSR we had MAD to keep each other at bay. The situation with Iran is that we're trying to avoid MAD. Granted, Iran isn't quite the adversary the USSR was.

A single nuclear weapon is all the adversary we'd need in order to lose a million+ lives and/or create so much fear as to ruin our economy. They don't have to have an arsenal large enough to cover the planet.

Any more than we have to have fear that would destroy our economy. You project your own childhood catastrophe out onto the world. Terror is for those who are afraid to feel.

"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the Valiant never taste of death but once."

So what is your argument Moonbeam? That a nuclear explosion would kill less people - or that this country wouldn't react in fear? Yeah- I'm sure the markets would just move along as if nothing happened.

I'm really stretching here to make out your post as anything more than trolling. My argument was simple: one doesn't have to be the USSR to inflict great damage. What is yours?

To ask why you are so worried about highly improbable events that are outside your control anyway.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.

where do you look?

common sense

:Q YOU are your own best source?!?!? LOL!!

that certainly explains a lot...

There is no reason for Iran to attack Israel.

hate Jews? Jews are protected inside Iran are living like everyone else. If Iran wanted to kill the Jews it would start at home. Anyone who brings up that argument is an idiot who hates Islam and needs to shove their fanatical religious beliefs up their own ass.

What other reason is there? If Iran wanted to destroy Israel all it has to do is fill those 20,000 rockets Hezbollah has with chemical weapons. What are they going to nuke if they have a nuclear bomb? & why? just to kill Jews? That would be the only reason for Iran to attack Israel.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians inside Israel. There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians outside Israel. Iranian Jews and the Iranian Muslims have respect for each other. They all call themselves Iranian. There is no hate between Iranians and Jews. One thing they all have in common is they all hate Arabs. How many Arab Jews call themselves Arab? Zero.

There is ZERO reason for Iran to attack Israel. The only attack Iran will ever launch on Israel is if they destroy their nuclear plant and the attack will be rockets/missiles.

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.

where do you look?

common sense

:Q YOU are your own best source?!?!? LOL!!

that certainly explains a lot...

There is no reason for Iran to attack Israel.

hate Jews? Jews are protected inside Iran are living like everyone else. If Iran wanted to kill the Jews it would start at home. Anyone who brings up that argument is an idiot who hates Islam and needs to shove their fanatical religious beliefs up their own ass.

What other reason is there? If Iran wanted to destroy Israel all it has to do is fill those 20,000 rockets Hezbollah has with chemical weapons. What are they going to nuke if they have a nuclear bomb? & why? just to kill Jews? That would be the only reason for Iran to attack Israel.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians inside Israel. There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians outside Israel. Iranian Jews and the Iranian Muslims have respect for each other. They all call themselves Iranian. There is no hate between Iranians and Jews. One thing they all have in common is they all hate Arabs. How many Arab Jews call themselves Arab? Zero.

There is ZERO reason for Iran to attack Israel. The only attack Iran will ever launch on Israel is if they destroy their nuclear plant and the attack will be rockets/missiles.

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

Sorry, but what he's saying is the truth. Iran doesn't want war, they just like the high oil prices caused by the appearance of geopolitical unrest. And if Iran were to go to war with any other nation, IMO it would be the Saudis first. They're the ones really running the show in the ME right now, not Israel.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.

where do you look?

common sense

:Q YOU are your own best source?!?!? LOL!!

that certainly explains a lot...

There is no reason for Iran to attack Israel.

hate Jews? Jews are protected inside Iran are living like everyone else. If Iran wanted to kill the Jews it would start at home. Anyone who brings up that argument is an idiot who hates Islam and needs to shove their fanatical religious beliefs up their own ass.

What other reason is there? If Iran wanted to destroy Israel all it has to do is fill those 20,000 rockets Hezbollah has with chemical weapons. What are they going to nuke if they have a nuclear bomb? & why? just to kill Jews? That would be the only reason for Iran to attack Israel.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians inside Israel. There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Iranians outside Israel. Iranian Jews and the Iranian Muslims have respect for each other. They all call themselves Iranian. There is no hate between Iranians and Jews. One thing they all have in common is they all hate Arabs. How many Arab Jews call themselves Arab? Zero.

There is ZERO reason for Iran to attack Israel. The only attack Iran will ever launch on Israel is if they destroy their nuclear plant and the attack will be rockets/missiles.

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

I graduated from a university. You never even took a 100 level course. University of Phoenix does not count,.

You are the brainwashed guy who thinks Iran hates the Jews which is based off of NOTHING.

Christians can have nuclear weapons but Muslims can't That's a great argument. Come up with something better.

You're part of that religious nutcase crowd. I don't care to debate things with people who think their religion is superior to another religion. Islam believes in the same thing as the Christians who pray for the return of some man who they claim is all powerful and knowing. End of days.. this is not a movie. Religion is poop.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: palehorse

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

Can you describe a rational scenario in which Iran preemptively attacks Israel that isn't "because Iran is craaaaazy!"?? What would Iran gain and how would they avoid the massive retaliation?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I graduated from a university. You never even took a 100 level course. University of Phoenix does not count,.

You are the brainwashed guy who thinks Iran hates the Jews which is based off of NOTHING.

Christians can have nuclear weapons but Muslims can't That's a great argument. Come up with something better.

You're part of that religious nutcase crowd. I don't care to debate things with people who think their religion is superior to another religion. Islam believes in the same thing as the Christians who pray for the return of some man who they claim is all powerful and knowing. End of days.. this is not a movie. Religion is poop.

😕 I have three degrees from two very respectable Universities, including a Masters; and I don't believe in any organized religion. I also think that the US should immediately cut off all financial and other types of blind support for Israel, Egypt, AND Saudi Arabia... among others.

so try again kiddo.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: palehorse

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

Can you describe a rational scenario in which Iran preemptively attacks Israel that isn't "because Iran is craaaaazy!"?? What would Iran gain and how would they avoid the massive retaliation?

To hasten the return of the 12th Imam? To rid the world of Zionism?

Unlike you, I consider their leaders' proven insanity a very good reason to prevent them from ever obtaining a nuclear bomb...

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Aimster
I graduated from a university. You never even took a 100 level course. University of Phoenix does not count,.

You are the brainwashed guy who thinks Iran hates the Jews which is based off of NOTHING.

Christians can have nuclear weapons but Muslims can't That's a great argument. Come up with something better.

You're part of that religious nutcase crowd. I don't care to debate things with people who think their religion is superior to another religion. Islam believes in the same thing as the Christians who pray for the return of some man who they claim is all powerful and knowing. End of days.. this is not a movie. Religion is poop.

😕 I have three degrees from two very respectable Universities, including a Masters; and I don't believe in any organized religion. I also think that the US should immediately cut off all financial and other types of blind support for Israel, Egypt, AND Saudi Arabia... among others.

so try again kiddo.

Let me point out what I said which are facts

1) Jews inside Iran are protected by law - even have their own permanent seat in parliament.
2) Jews inside Iran live like everyone else (Jew, Muslim or Christian if you talk badly about the Iranian govt. you get in trouble. Showing me an article about a Jew being arrested proves nothing since I can show you 10,000 articles about a Muslim being arrested.). JPost articles and BBC articles and videos on youtube (documentaries) prove Jews inside Iran are for the most part treated like everyone else and are generally happy.
3) Hundreds of thousands of Iranian Jews inside Israel
4) Hundreds of thousands of Iranian Jews outside Israel

The facts you brought to this discussion:

... I could not find a single thing. Sorry. So who is the one who has problems debating? You or me?

Logic? Reasoning? You should take your own advice.

So what reason could Iran have for wanting to nuke Israel? Cause they spread "end of the Israel regime" over and over again? This might come as a huge shock to you mr.educated one but there are hundreds of thousands of people inside Israel who are Jews who believe that Zionism is wrong and wish to see an end to the state of Israel

Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that Iran is going to nuke Israel because it hates the Jews? If Iran nukes Israel Iran will be nuked right back. Iran gains nothing. Stop bringing up return of the imam like you always do.. the return of the imam is the return of Christ. Like I said you want to bring up fanatical wacko Iranian govt. leaders preaching for the return of the Imam then don't forget to mention McCain attending Christians for Israel rally where they pray for the return of the Christ when a big fire will be burning in Israel where he will tell the world what is right.
In this case McCain has far more power than Ahmadenejad who does not even control a single Iranian missile.

 

[yours truly]

the groundwork for an 'invasion' in iran began a few years back.

i know this from talking to SBS personnel (and privy to classified information) 😀 im serious!

special forces/intelligence are there right now

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Perry404
I think there will be no "change".

I get your point...but the mere fact that for the first time in twenty years, the President's last name is neither Bush nor Clinton is a huge change, and a small but welcome first step.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: palehorse

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

Can you describe a rational scenario in which Iran preemptively attacks Israel that isn't "because Iran is craaaaazy!"?? What would Iran gain and how would they avoid the massive retaliation?

To hasten the return of the 12th Imam? To rid the world of Zionism?

Unlike you, I consider their leaders' proven insanity a very good reason to prevent them from ever obtaining a nuclear bomb...

Proven insanity... really? Call me crazy, but I think Iran's foreign policy over the last 7 years has been orders of magnitude more rational then ours. They have done exactly what I would have done in their situation. You can disagree with what they're doing all you want, but to say that they are 'proven insane' is an awfully ignorant way to look at it.

It's common in the US to portray our enemies as crazy irrational warmongers, but it's rarely the case.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd say if Israel is allowed to have nukes, so should Iran. If we put up a wall that says "no no" to Iran, then Israel should give up its aresenal.

When every single country in the region proclaims that Iran has no right to exist and gangs up to invade her multiple times over a period of a few decades, with the declared intent to exterminate all Iranians or drive them into the sea, I'll agree with you.

 

[Zebo]

You're such a dishonest broker Aimster.

Applicable facts:

Jews are hostages in Iran not allowed to emigrate- as an insurance policy against Israeli attack.

Jews live under second class Dhimmi status.

Jews wake up every morning to governments controlled media channels and papers anti-Semitic propaganda.

Jews are institutionalized second class citizens akin to Jim Crow south.

This one is comical:

This might come as a huge shock to you mr.educated one but there are hundreds of thousands of people inside Israel who are Jews who believe that Zionism is wrong and wish to see an end to the state of Israel

Because if they say they like Zionism it's the death penalty for cooperating with the Zionist state .

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd say if Israel is allowed to have nukes, so should Iran. If we put up a wall that says "no no" to Iran, then Israel should give up its aresenal.

When every single country in the region proclaims that Iran has no right to exist and gangs up to invade her multiple times over a period of a few decades, with the declared intent to exterminate all Iranians or drive them into the sea, I'll agree with you.

You think Israel agrees with the "Islamic Republic" of Iran regime?

I highly doubt they want it to exist, especially having a Jewish defense minister who was born in Iran.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Zebo
You're such a liar Aimster.

Jews are hostages in Iran not allowed to emigrate- as an insurance policy against Israeli attack.

Jews live under second class Dhimmi status.

Jews wake up every morning to governments controlled media channels and papers anti-Semitic propaganda.

Jews are institutionalized second class citizens akin to Jim Crow south.

Jews are not allowed to emigrate?

So if I show you a article from a reliable source that claims you are wrong will you acknowledge that you are an idiot?

Don't question me if you have no idea wtf u r talking about.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: palehorse

well gee, since YOU say so, it must be true... after all, you've got that whole "common sense" thing going, and all...

Did you ever take a course in Logic, Reason, or Debate at that community college you went to?
:roll:

Can you describe a rational scenario in which Iran preemptively attacks Israel that isn't "because Iran is craaaaazy!"?? What would Iran gain and how would they avoid the massive retaliation?

To hasten the return of the 12th Imam? To rid the world of Zionism?

Unlike you, I consider their leaders' proven insanity a very good reason to prevent them from ever obtaining a nuclear bomb...

And unlike you, I don't believe in cartoonish super-villainy.

How do you back up the claim that Ahmadinejad or any other Iranian leaders are "insane"?? Because you say so?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Zebo
You're such a liar Aimster.

Jews are hostages in Iran not allowed to emigrate- as an insurance policy against Israeli attack.

Jews live under second class Dhimmi status.

Jews wake up every morning to governments controlled media channels and papers anti-Semitic propaganda.

Jews are institutionalized second class citizens akin to Jim Crow south.

Jews are not allowed to emigrate?

So if I show you a article from a reliable source that claims you are wrong will you acknowledge that you are an idiot?

Don't question me if you have no idea wtf u r talking about.

For every story you find of one allowed to emigrate I'll find two showing those put to death for tying or helping other Jews try will you then acknowledge that you are a liar?

 

[theeedude]

Obama moved on from mirroring Clinton on the issues to mirroring McCain. Soon he'll be same as McCain on the issues, but with a touch of "change" and "hope."

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'd say if Israel is allowed to have nukes, so should Iran. If we put up a wall that says "no no" to Iran, then Israel should give up its aresenal.

When every single country in the region proclaims that Iran has no right to exist and gangs up to invade her multiple times over a period of a few decades, with the declared intent to exterminate all Iranians or drive them into the sea, I'll agree with you.

You think Israel agrees with the "Islamic Republic" of Iran regime?

I highly doubt they want it to exist, especially having a Jewish defense minister who was born in Iran.

That's hardly "every single country in the region".

 

[BMW540I6speed]

palehorse said;

To hasten the return of the 12th Imam? To rid the world of Zionism?

Unlike you, I consider their leaders' proven insanity a very good reason to prevent them from ever obtaining a nuclear bomb...

Don't be ridiculous, stop focusing on Ahmedinejad's propaganda. It's like focusing on that Bush hasn't claimed to have talked with God in a while. Maybe he discovered the little speaker in his pillow.

Western diplomacy in recent years has focused on Amedinejad as the key to resolving the crisis. But this approach is a blind alley. Let us recall the fate of Ahmedinejad's two immediate predecessors. Khatami tried to implement dramatic political reform, while Rafsanjani tried to open the Iranian economy to the west. Both failed, because Iran's presidents do not run the country. A solution to the nuclear dilemma - or any other problem in Iran's foreign relations - is in the hands of the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

It seems in order to dominate decision-making, Khamenei prefers weak presidents. Ahmedinejad is no different. His political base has faded, owing to Iran's deepening economic crisis, which has been intensified by the conflict with the west over the nuclear issue. His support in the parliamentary election seems particularly weak.

In practice, however, western diplomacy tends to ignore Khamenei, who sabotages any effort to get around him as the final arbiter of Iranian policy. This might partly explain why Khamenei has been distrustful of negotiations with the west. Clinton's efforts to achieve a breakthrough with Iran failed because they were addressed to Iran's presidents.

To resolve outstanding issues with Iran, the West should be dealing with the only person powerful enough to make deals and deliver concessions. That person is Khamenei, not Ahmedinejad.

The west should learn from the example of Putin, who did not travel to Iran until he was allowed a direct meeting with Khamenei, during which Putin is reported to have made a proposal to end the nuclear stand-off. Khamenei is reluctant to meet with non-Muslim foreign leaders. But that shouldn't stop the west from reaching out to him directly, or pressing him to publicly appoint the representatives who negotiate with the west.

One American politician who understands how to work with the Iranian power structure is former Congressman Lee Hamilton. When Woodrow Wilson Center researcher Haleh Esfandiari was arrested in Iran, Hamilton wrote to Khamenei, pleading for her release on humanitarian grounds. Khamenei responded - reportedly the first time he answered an American - and Esfandiari was released in a matter of days.

While Ahmedinejad's apocalyptic vision makes it difficult for westerners to deal with him, Khamenei does not want to stumble into a military confrontation with the West, which would destabilise Iran and possibly lead to the regime's downfall.