Obama, "I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, everything."

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Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Vic
Just pandering. Nor do I see any disconnect. The "talks first" stance was just being responsible and rational, attacked only by a few who seemed to think we should drop bombs on a sovereign nation without even having negotiations first.

The bigger question here IMO is why do the Jews deserve Israel? Curse my illiterate Celtic ancestors, I could have a waterfront condo on the French Riviera right now!

Because they fought for it and built it and defended it? Why do the dirty rats that call themselves palestinians deserve it?

Because they fought for it and built it and defended it first?

"Dirty rats"?? :roll: They have a right to their property just as every other human being does. You're a sick, disconnected fascist. Quit stealing my taxdollars to fund your hate.

Who cares who was first? They won.

And yes, they prove themselves as sub-human by blowing themselves up along with women and children.

The Israelis are noble for fighting a war winning and thus they deserve it. The Palestinians are dirty rats for fighting a war and trying to win and thus they don't. Impeccable logic.

So if the Palestinians take over the land, can we expect you to start calling the Israelis dirty rats?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: CPA
Sounds like Obama is a warhawk.

No, but he seems willing to give plenty of ammo to the next retard your people will elect into office.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JS80
Who cares who was first? They won.
It does matter, because Israel hasn't even existed for a century, and they're surrounded on all sides by people who have been there for over 1000 years.

Equilibrium has a way of restoring itself over time. Just look at the changing demographics of the southwestern US and you'll see it in action.

You wanna play the who was there first game? 300 Million American's better pack their fucking bags.

A much better analogy would be the one I already used in this thread, that the Celtics should get France back.

edit: BTW, I am not anti-Zionist. Israel is there now, so be it. I do want them to start learning how to get along with their neighbors, and for them to let go of our apron strings.
You have some things to learn.

If you support any Palestinian viewpoint, you're an anti-Semite.

If you support any concession by Israel, you're an anti-Semite.

Don't support a war with Iran? Anti-Semite.

You might as well sign on the dotted line for AIPAC, otherwise every power-broker in Washington will know you're an anti-Semite by tomorrow morning's early edition.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,221
654
126
Horray, more sabre rattling. Still, I don't see him being nearly as hawkish as McCain.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Vic
Just pandering. Nor do I see any disconnect. The "talks first" stance was just being responsible and rational, attacked only by a few who seemed to think we should drop bombs on a sovereign nation without even having negotiations first.

The bigger question here IMO is why do the Jews deserve Israel? Curse my illiterate Celtic ancestors, I could have a waterfront condo on the French Riviera right now!

Because they fought for it and built it and defended it? Why do the dirty rats that call themselves palestinians deserve it?

Because they fought for it and built it and defended it first?

"Dirty rats"?? :roll: They have a right to their property just as every other human being does. You're a sick, disconnected fascist. Quit stealing my taxdollars to fund your hate.

Who cares who was first? They won.

And yes, they prove themselves as sub-human by blowing themselves up along with women and children.

The Israelis are noble for fighting a war winning and thus they deserve it. The Palestinians are dirty rats for fighting a war and trying to win and thus they don't. Impeccable logic.

So if the Palestinians take over the land, can we expect you to start calling the Israelis dirty rats?

The blowing themselves up along with women and children is what makes them sub-human.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
If all politicians did, and have done, was follow public opinion, we wouldn't be in the positions we are in today.

Politicians may at times follow public opinion, but public opinion has been shaped by previous ones. And it's about damn time we support someone with the integrity to say that, followed by the truth.

You have more faith in the people than I do.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Every Jewish voice counts.

Shouldn't you be blaming the Jewish community, who adores being pandered to every election cycle on behalf of the 51st state.

Who said anything about Puerto Rico???
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JS80
Who cares who was first? They won.
It does matter, because Israel hasn't even existed for a century, and they're surrounded on all sides by people who have been there for over 1000 years.

Equilibrium has a way of restoring itself over time. Just look at the changing demographics of the southwestern US and you'll see it in action.

You wanna play the who was there first game? 300 Million American's better pack their fucking bags.

I'd gladly pack my bags if there was a white homeland. There isn't. Fortunately for you, you have a Jewish homeland. Paid for by my dollar. How's that for Ironic?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bamacre
If all politicians did, and have done, was follow public opinion, we wouldn't be in the positions we are in today.

Politicians may at times follow public opinion, but public opinion has been shaped by previous ones. And it's about damn time we support someone with the integrity to say that, followed by the truth.

You have more faith in the people than I do.

Better than having faith in government.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
Originally posted by: CPA
Sounds like Obama is a warhawk.

Obama is all things to all people. :D
No matter what your positions are, he'll have the same positions.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bamacre
If all politicians did, and have done, was follow public opinion, we wouldn't be in the positions we are in today.

Politicians may at times follow public opinion, but public opinion has been shaped by previous ones. And it's about damn time we support someone with the integrity to say that, followed by the truth.

You have more faith in the people than I do.

Better than having faith in government.

The people is the government. The government is the people. Even the cruelest dictator only rules through the consent of the people (although likely forced in that case).
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Every Jewish voice counts.

Shouldn't you be blaming the Jewish community, who adores being pandered to every election cycle on behalf of the 51st state.

Who said anything about Puerto Rico???
I'm not talking about a wannabe state, I'm talking about Israel.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bamacre
If all politicians did, and have done, was follow public opinion, we wouldn't be in the positions we are in today.

Politicians may at times follow public opinion, but public opinion has been shaped by previous ones. And it's about damn time we support someone with the integrity to say that, followed by the truth.

You have more faith in the people than I do.

Better than having faith in government.

The people is the government. The government is the people. Even the cruelest dictator only rules through the consent of the people (although likely forced in that case).

That used to be the case in this country. Less so today.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't read too far into this.

Yeah, don't listen to what he says. :roll:

Go back and read transcripts of Clinton's speeches regarding Iraq. And look at all the Dem's that supported the invasion of Iraq.
Obama's foreigin policy stance is substantially different from his peers. That he says he's willing to go to great lengths is a temper against Iranian insanity, but don't pretend for a moment that he'd open the bomb bay doors with the ease McCane would. Obama will create dialogues first, where possible, and load his gun second. Being in charge of the most formidable military in history, I find this a preferable approach.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't read too far into this.

Yeah, don't listen to what he says. :roll:

Go back and read transcripts of Clinton's speeches regarding Iraq. And look at all the Dem's that supported the invasion of Iraq.
Obama's foreigin policy stance is substantially different from his peers. That he says he's willing to go to great lengths is a temper against Iranian insanity, but don't pretend for a moment that he'd open the bomb bay doors with the ease McCane would. Obama will create dialogues first, where possible, and load his gun second. Being in charge of the most formidable military in history, I find this a preferable approach.

Preferable to McCain, sure. I've never argued against that. But the difference you see between the two in regards to foreign policy is more minimal than you think. They're just arguing over details of the same foreign policy.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,425
7,485
136
Originally posted by: Donny Baker
Yes, but with the USSR we had MAD to keep each other at bay. The situation with Iran is that we're trying to avoid MAD. Granted, Iran isn't quite the adversary the USSR was.

A single nuclear weapon is all the adversary we'd need in order to lose a million+ lives and/or create so much fear as to ruin our economy. They don't have to have an arsenal large enough to cover the planet.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,398
6,077
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Donny Baker
Yes, but with the USSR we had MAD to keep each other at bay. The situation with Iran is that we're trying to avoid MAD. Granted, Iran isn't quite the adversary the USSR was.

A single nuclear weapon is all the adversary we'd need in order to lose a million+ lives and/or create so much fear as to ruin our economy. They don't have to have an arsenal large enough to cover the planet.

Any more than we have to have fear that would destroy our economy. You project your own childhood catastrophe out onto the world. Terror is for those who are afraid to feel.

"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the Valiant never taste of death but once."
 

SlingXShot

Senior member
Jan 7, 2004
248
0
0
I think this is a way to bring in some republicans and jews into his side.. at a minimal cost to dem people. Look how many people support McCain, lets say obama is somewhere between dem and rep... a lot of more people would go for Obama... I don't like it, but thats what it takes to win in my opinion..
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: CPA
Sounds like Obama is a warhawk.

No, but he seems willing to give plenty of ammo to the next retard your people will elect into office.

My people? Who would that be?
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
The White House's hardline refusal of diplomacy was borne out of necessity. It's both a product of Bush's hardheaded personality and his complete lack of diplomatic skills.

Diplomacy requires a sophisticated set of skills and education, built up over decades of experience; You do not hire a poorly read, C-student with sophomoric communication skills to negotiate on behalf of the free world. However ideologically rigid Bush's team is, they are not stupid. They have supported - even built - this no-negotiation platform around Bush to protect our country from embarrassing and disastrous results.

The rest of the world has moved on without us, negotiating in the diplomatic vacuum we have created. Hopefully, Barak Obama plans to rejoin the world community after nearly a decade of diplomatic isolation which has spurred another round of inexplicable defensiveness from the right wing. Is it possible this change of policy would further underscore Bush's incompetence and further embarrass the White House and their supporters?

The question arises at once: Who do we need most to "talk" with? Our friends or our enemies? We, as a people, have made an art of preaching to the choir while progressively more often ignoring the congregants. Our allies, if we have any left, may need some occasional reassurances, but our enemies are the very people we should want to convert to our cause or, at the least, engage and, if necessary, make to seem fools before the world. We don't need to convert our allies and we don't need to make them look like fools. Oh, sorry, too late to avoid that last item. Lots of repair work to be done.

It takes courage and diplomatic skill to face an enemy and set forth terms and conditions, and remain open to alternatives, while not compromising on our essential security.

On appeasement: Handing Kim Jong II a suitcase full of cash so he won't threaten us with Nuclear weapons is the definition of appeasement.

On Hezbollah: What we don't bother to know/learn about Hezbollah and the ramifications of the divisions in Lebanon will be our undoing in the region. It is a bad idea not to engage these "enemies." It is necessary to comprehend them as something other than a 3rd grade stereotype of "evil." That we still define these organizations only as "evil," is an anthem to our foreign policy stupidity.

On Northern Ireland: Sir Hugh Orde was the chief of Police Services for Northern Ireland, and was up against the IRA for 30 years. He's recently pointed out that no terrorist conflict has ever been resolved solely through military means.

While this Administration and it's supporters divide the rest of the world into enemy tribes, according to their own false preconceptions and unexamined fantasies and simple-minded ignorance, they apply the same mythical approach within the USA, and too many Americans listen.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
If done right taking out that nut in Iran can be a win-win unlike the GOP plan for Iraq.

Simply leave enough forces securing the oil in Iraq and move the rest of the forces to Iran.

Problem solved and now have Iran's oil. :D
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JS80
Who cares who was first? They won.
It does matter, because Israel hasn't even existed for a century, and they're surrounded on all sides by people who have been there for over 1000 years.


I seem to recall some book about a guy parting the sea, but that surely must have been only a couple years old.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Iran is never going to attack Israel.

People all they listen to is what the media tells them. They don't look elsewhere.