Obama has broken the back of Republicans

[Angry Irishman]

Not true, key moderate Republicans won new spending programs for their districts.

Yea and now the democrats and the republicans can "legally" keep spending our money that we don't have at least for a few more months until they do this all over again.....great. It's like the special Olympics, everyone is a winner.🙄

 

[AViking]

The problem is that Americans have the memory of a 3 year old. Come election time the Republicans will have a non-stop stream of ads blaming the democrats for this whole mess and Democrats will have the same thing. Americans will not be able to sort through the mess, they'll throw their hands up in the air, and they will vote like they always did down party lines or for whoever promises to put more money in their pocket.

Breaking the backs of the Republicans needs to come from within. They need to throw the Tea Party caucus out. It might hurt them short term but long term it will help them. Up until this last election I voted as a Republican. I wouldn't dream of voting for them again as long as they have a bunch of fundamentalists as part of their party. They will continue to slowly erode but I think the best thing they can do is break their own back since American voters are simply not smart enough to vote the Tea Party out.

 

[Lash444]

Wooooo....that was a close one. I'm glad Obama led the country to our salvation. Oh wait.....nobody won anything, especially the American people.

Not true. I think a lot of people took notice of what the Tea Partiers were doing in Congress. You can think about it as a win or loss, but the rest of us just want leadership that doesn't hold the country hostage.

Though I don't know how well it worked. Based on FelixDeKat's post in this thread, "Negotiations" can be started by demanding anything you want, using whatever terms and collateral that you want.

Example:
Terrorist: Give me all your monies, or I will kill your daughter.
Hostage: I won't negotiate with terrorists.

In FelixDeKat's world, the hostage is responsible for the death of the daughter. Why? Because he said he wouldn't negotiate. In FelixDeKat's world, it clearly doesn't matter what terms the terrorist brings to the table. It is fair game.

If you can't be honest with yourself, that using the shutdown as the government shouldn't be the only bargaining chip in "negotiating", how can we expect you to be honest in legitimate negotiations? It is incredibly disingenuous.

We may not have "Won" anything. If we have less people in our government that think this type of negotiation is appropriate, though, I do think we have benefitted. Personally, I'd rather the precedent be set that negotiations wouldn't be heard under such terms. And for that reason, Obama is in the right.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Not true. I think a lot of people took notice of what the Tea Partiers were doing in Congress. You can think about it as a win or loss, but the rest of us just want leadership that doesn't hold the country hostage.

Though I don't know how well it worked. Based on FelixDeKat's post in this thread, "Negotiations" can be started by demanding anything you want, using whatever terms and collateral that you want.

Example:
Terrorist: Give me all your monies, or I will kill your daughter.
Hostage: I won't negotiate with terrorists.

In FelixDeKat's world, the hostage is responsible for the death of the daughter. Why? Because he said he wouldn't negotiate. In FelixDeKat's world, it clearly doesn't matter what terms the terrorist brings to the table. It is fair game.

If you can't be honest with yourself, that using the shutdown as the government shouldn't be the only bargaining chip in "negotiating", how can we expect you to be honest in legitimate negotiations? It is incredibly disingenuous.

We may not have "Won" anything. If we have less people in our government that think this type of negotiation is appropriate, though, I do think we have benefitted. Personally, I'd rather the precedent be set that negotiations wouldn't be heard under such terms. And for that reason, Obama is in the right.

Obama's flaw has been his lack of leadership. Both parties are holding us hostage and will continue until significant changes are made. We'll see all of this again next year.

 

[dank69]

Actually the Tea Party lost big time. Their popularity is at record lows and they gained nothing of substance from these tactics.

This will translate to lost races in the midterm elections and less influence going forward.

I think the Tea Party will pick up seats from this. You can see how crazy their base is. They love this shit and think they won when they actually lost big. However, the GOP as a whole will lose seats and probably the House, so the Tea Party will have even less influence. Not sure it will be enough to get 60 in the Senate though, so we will still have to deal with Cruz and the filibuster until 2016.

 

[michal1980]

I love the rhetoric of the left. They are only able to get away with this terrorist crap because of the media.

If the right ever tired to pull of that kind of stunt we'd never hear the end of it.

How dare we call freely elected members of congress terrorists the left will scream. And the media would run story after story bashing the right for the heated divisive rhetoric.

TV channels would have democrat after democrat claiming that its their patriotic duty to challenge the white house. That no one party should be allowed to dictate how we operate. That we need compromise. bla bla bla.



But when they are in power the opposition is a bunch of terrorists.


Heres Clinton in 2003, when bush was in charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmpTMGhU0

In 2003, Hillary Clinton screeched "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration."

Fast forward to 2013, and the opposing the administration gets you labeled a terrorist.

Fing hypocrites on the left. nothing but phonies, who if they ever lost the press would be exposed for their bullshit.

 

[Juddog]

Obama's flaw has been his lack of leadership. Both parties are holding us hostage and will continue until significant changes are made. We'll see all of this again next year.

What a predictable reply. 🙄

 

[Matt1970]

You guys needed another circle jerk thread?

 

[fskimospy]

Obama's flaw has been his lack of leadership. Both parties are holding us hostage and will continue until significant changes are made. We'll see all of this again next year.

This case here was a textbook example of leadership. Obama took the right position even though it wasn't popular and stuck to it.

It's interesting/saddening to see the ultra right already trying to rewrite history. It's the same culprits they always use to excuse away failure. ie: If conservatives failed at something it's because they weren't conservative enough, the media conspired against us, etc.

There will be no attempt at personal accountability there because it's easier to think that you're a victim than it is to accept that you screwed up.

 

[Angry Irishman]

What a predictable reply. 🙄

I suppose you think his leadership was outstanding? I suppose you also think the situation this country is in is all the Republicans doing....correct? That's typical.

 

[Angry Irishman]

This case here was a textbook example of leadership. Obama took the right position even though it wasn't popular and stuck to it.

It's interesting/saddening to see the ultra right already trying to rewrite history. It's the same culprits they always use to excuse away failure. ie: If conservatives failed at something it's because they weren't conservative enough, the media conspired against us, etc.

There will be no attempt at personal accountability there because it's easier to think that you're a victim than it is to accept that you screwed up.

Oh I don't dispute his tactics....but I won't call it leadership. His lack of leadership is especially evident when considering his whole time as president. Both parties are failing the American people and the president has always been a party man over being this nation's executive leader. His excuse has it's always been the Republicans blocking me. He's not the first and he won't be the last president to face this although many others have done a much better job of facilitating compromise and forward movement.

 

[shadow9d9]

Oh I don't dispute his tactics....but I won't call it leadership. His lack of leadership is especially evident when considering his whole time as president. Both parties are failing the American people and the president has always been a party man over being this nation's executive leader. His excuse has it's always been the Republicans blocking me. He's not the first and he won't be the last president to face this although many others have done a much better job of facilitating compromise and forward movement.

False equivalence and both parties are bad, so vote republican won't work forever.

 

[KMFJD]

I love the rhetoric of the right. They are only able to get away with this terrorist crap because of the media.

If the left ever tired to pull of that kind of stunt we'd never hear the end of it.

How dare we call freely elected members of congress terrorists the right will scream. And the media would run story after story bashing the right for the heated divisive rhetoric.

TV channels would have republican after republican claiming that its their patriotic duty to challenge the white house. That no one party should be allowed to dictate how we operate. That we need compromise. bla bla bla.



But when they are in power the opposition is a bunch of terrorists.

Fing hypocrites on the right. nothing but phonies, who if they ever lost the press would be exposed for their bullshit.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh I don't dispute his tactics....but I won't call it leadership. His lack of leadership is especially evident when considering his whole time as president. Both parties are failing the American people and the president has always been a party man over being this nation's executive leader. His excuse has it's always been the Republicans blocking me. He's not the first and he won't be the last president to face this although many others have done a much better job of facilitating compromise and forward movement.

What exactly do you mean by leadership, what concrete actions could Obama take to display leadership, and what are your expected results from those actions?

 

[Angry Irishman]

What exactly do you mean by leadership, what concrete actions could Obama take to display leadership, and what are your expected results from those actions?

Let me flip the coin....other than your above text book definition of leadership you tell me what he's done. Blaming the republican party for the last 5 years for everything under the sun isn't leadership. Telling the American people that I give up I can't make Congress do it's job isn't leadership. Stumbling and fumbling over Syria isn't leadership. The list goes on and on. He isn't the devil and he's done some good but he's not going to go down in the history books as a presidential leader.

 

[JTsyo]

BHO was shown what happens whey you try to be a dictator. You have patriots like Ted Cruz standing up to that worthless tyrant.

He started off negotiations with "I will not negotiate" and got his way. You call that bipartisan? I guess so if you like dictatorships.

I'll let McCain explain it to you:

“It’s very, very serious,” warned Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. “Republicans have to understand we have lost this battle, as I predicted weeks ago, that we would not be able to win because we were demanding something that was not achievable.”

If you try to make a deal that the other side has no interest in making while holding no leverage, you're doomed. The battle over AMA was over, there's was no reason for the Tea Party to make this their Alamo at this point. It was time to pick a new battle. Guess they were too inexperienced to figure it out even if it seemed obvious.

 

[fskimospy]

Let me flip the coin....other than your above text book definition of leadership you tell me what he's done. Blaming the republican party for the last 5 years for everything under the sun isn't leadership. Telling the American people that I give up I can't make Congress do it's job isn't leadership. Stumbling and fumbling over Syria isn't leadership. The list goes on and on. He isn't the devil and he's done some good but he's not going to go down in the history books as a presidential leader.

You're the one who said he hasn't displayed leadership, so presumably you have something in mind that he should be doing.

I said he just displayed leadership in this instance and explicitly stated what that comprised. Can you explain what you meant?

 

[dbk]

I think we'll see the same thing again in January.. Those Tea Party conservatives were elected to bring down Obamacare. Gonna go down swinging.. over and over.. Did you not hear Ted Cruz spin it? He called it an "incredible victory" for the House GOP!

“We saw the House of Representatives stand up to defy Washington conventional wisdom and stand with the American people against Obamacare,” Cruz said on the Mark Levin radio show. “That was remarkable, it was an incredible victory. Where this went off track is when it came to the Senate, and Senate Republicans didn’t stand united alongside House Republicans.”

​

 

[kia75]

I think we'll see the same thing again in January.. Those Tea Party conservatives were elected to bring down Obamacare. Gonna go down swinging.. over and over.. Did you not hear Ted Cruz spin it? He called it an "incredible victory" for the House GOP!

​

Why would we see the same thing in January? Part of the bill that ends the shutdown included a provision for a budget committee. We'll have a yearly budget before the end of the year, probably before Thanksgiving.

And the debt ceiling? The rules have been changed for that. Now everytime Obama wants to raise the debt ceiling he a) gets an automatic 100 billion raise on the debt ceiling while Congress decides whether or not to raise it past the 100 billion. b) He gets the raise automatically unless Congress opposes it. c) if Congress opposes it, he can veto the blocking of the raise. d) If somehow Congress over-rides the veto and opposes the raise, he can do this song and dance again and get another 100 billion raise.

 

[Genx87]

I do not think we will see Republicans attempt these debt ceiling shutdown tactics again in the near term. With midterms coming up it would be political suicide in every way.

The outcome tonight was really what was needed all along in 2011. Obama had to bring the pain to the GOP tactics that were silencing the moderate voices in the GOP. Now Boehner will have room to make the kind of deals most Americans want.

It's going to have to be a bipartisan give and take for progress to be made. This means neither side gets everything they want. The Tea Party tactic of holding the line for purity doesn't work in government. Governance only works through compromise, especially when the GOP controls the house and Democrats control the Senate and White House.

I hope the republicans give up on using the debt ceiling to advance their cause. It has utterly backfired over and over again.

This is another sign of how out of touch with reality the Republican leadership has become. Using a line in the sand everybody knows they wont cross because the ramifications for doing so are so severe.

 

[ABC10]

Umm in the 2012 election the Dems picked up seats in both the Senate(2 or 3) and the House(6). The GOP was expected to gain Senate seats in 2012, but they lost them. Prior to these current shenanigans they were expected to come close to 50/50 in 2014, that might not happen anymore. It wont happen if tea party candidates get nominated in key states. The GOP will be losing house seats. Probably not the majority but they definitely lose more seats.

I predict the dems narrowly holding the Senate with 50 or 51 seats and I see the Dems approaching 200 house seats.

Far, far from the glory days when the Senate Dems were 59 and the Repubs 41 and held the House. 2014, Here come the Repubs. :wub:

 

[ABC10]

Some of the Repub gains and holdings were due to geryymandering, some others due to the imbalance of Dem and Repub seats that were up for grabs. I don't have solid numbers, but I think you need to consider those factors in arriving at a sensible conclusion.

As far as keeping Obama ineffective, that may very well be a reason many more voters will vote Dem the next time around, as this fixation with stonewalling Obama via obstructionism, filibustering, hostage taking and fabulously embellished propaganda ploys have had the habit of backfiring of late, and if left unrestrained, will only make things worse for the Repub's chances in 2014.

Time will tell!!! Here they come, here they come, its a Repub majority.:wub:

 

[dmcowen674]

BHO was shown what happens whey you try to be a dictator.

10-15-2018

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/obama-hitler-billboard-indiana_n_4101322.html

Indiana Town Billboard Shows Obama As Hitler, Demands President's Impeachment



A video billboard in Indiana has taken a President Barack Obama-Adolf Hitler comparison to the next level.


Adorned with a picture of Obama, complete with Hitler's signature mustache, the billboard -- reportedly located at the Cornerstone Plaza in Kendallville -- has been erected to advocate for the president's impeachment.


During his 21-hour speech in September, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) compared funding Obamacare to appeasing Nazi Germany.



Last week, Arizona lawmaker Rep. Brenda Barton (R-Payson) wrote on Facebook that "De Fuhrer" is running the federal government shutdown

 

[dank69]

Umm in the 2012 election the Dems picked up seats in both the Senate(2 or 3) and the House(6). The GOP was expected to gain Senate seats in 2012, but they lost them. Prior to these current shenanigans they were expected to come close to 50/50 in 2014, that might not happen anymore. It wont happen if tea party candidates get nominated in key states. The GOP will be losing house seats. Probably not the majority but they definitely lose more seats.

I predict the dems narrowly holding the Senate with 50 or 51 seats and I see the Dems approaching 200 house seats.

While I admit that the elections are far away, the public has a short memory, and anything can happen between now and then, To claim the GOP will pick up seats in the Senate is not based in reality. ABC is either a troll account or our newest wackadoo. Who else would claim the GOP picked up seats in the Senate and House in 2012?

 

[fskimospy]

While I admit that the elections are far away, the public has a short memory, and anything can happen between now and then, To claim the GOP will pick up seats in the Senate is not based in reality. ABC is either a troll account or our newest wackadoo. Who else would claim the GOP picked up seats in the Senate and House in 2012?

The 2014 map is very favorable to Republicans. It is highly likely they will pick up at least a couple seats. (conversely, the 2016 map is extremely favorable to Democrats) The GOP will basically have to run the table in order to take control of the chamber however, and at the moment they are polling behind in a lot of races.

Senate pickups for the Republicans? Highly likely. Senate control for the Republicans? Not looking so good.