Obama had Trumps phone tapped?

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,149
55,682
136
No, we do not know that he put his "freedom at risk".

I'd like to see the transcript, or a charge or indictment before claiming he's subject to a prison sentence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.a1b3c4cbe4fc

Are you disputing he made materially false statements to the FBI? If not, then of course he put his freedom at risk. I see that you ignored the 'job' part which is of course also ample blackmail material.

I'm not sure why you're trying to deny the obvious so hard.

Again, I need to see the transcript. Not sure why that is not forthcoming since the FBI has determined that nothing illegal, or even illicit, occurred.

If it's as Flynn has said I see zero opportunity for blackmail.

Fern

Even giving you the absolute most charitable interpretation you think holding information over someone that might (in this case, would) get them fired is 'zero opportunity for blackmail'? I don't know what world you live in.

Again, the fucking White House is being investigated by the FBI for espionage. THAT is an insanely huge deal. We should all be focused on that and the fact that Republicans (and you) want to focus on leaks instead shows just how sick partisanship has become.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Funniest part of that ordeal is Flynn who obviously has poor Putin's interests at heart first and foremost would still have the job if Pence were kept in the loop about his treason.

It's only the nature of things for conservatives to keep their poor traitors' interests at heart first and foremost.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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Are you disputing he made materially false statements to the FBI? If not, then of course he put his freedom at risk. I see that you ignored the 'job' part which is of course also ample blackmail material.

I'm not sure why you're trying to deny the obvious so hard.



Even giving you the absolute most charitable interpretation you think holding information over someone that might (in this case, would) get them fired is 'zero opportunity for blackmail'? I don't know what world you live in.

Again, the fucking White House is being investigated by the FBI for espionage. THAT is an insanely huge deal. We should all be focused on that and the fact that Republicans (and you) want to focus on leaks instead shows just how sick partisanship has become.

That is a huge bigly deal but so far nothing points to Trump.
The people he's selected but not directly to him. I'm just being fair, this doesn't mean Trump should get off easy either.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I'm still trying to figure out what & why a Russian Ambassador & known recruiter of spy's was doing at the RNC. I get that its his job to meet Politicians but the RNC couldn't say wait a few days or have the Ambassador meet Candidates with the press present?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Are you disputing he made materially false statements to the FBI? If not, then of course he put his freedom at risk. I see that you ignored the 'job' part which is of course also ample blackmail material.

I'm not sure why you're trying to deny the obvious so hard.

I'm not "disputing" that he made "materially false" statements. He is. I'm saying (for the umpteenth time) IDK and am waiting to see what the transcript says. My refusal to take your word for it is not 'disputing"; it's simply skepticism

Even giving you the absolute most charitable interpretation you think holding information over someone that might (in this case, would) get them fired is 'zero opportunity for blackmail'? I don't know what world you live in.

You're acting as if you know what was said. If you don't know, you can't reasonably make such assertions.

Again, the fucking White House is being investigated by the FBI for espionage. THAT is an insanely huge deal. We should all be focused on that and the fact that Republicans (and you) want to focus on leaks instead shows just how sick partisanship has become.

I don't see any claim of "espionage". I see a claim of possible collusion to influence an election. And I have seen Clapper say there's no evidence of it.

I think it's you who demonstrating the partisanship. Look, everybody knows that the Dems want the focus on the election stuff and you're here representing their wishes. Again, already Clapper has said there is no evidence for it. So I find it hard to get all excited about it. And we know that the Repubs want to focus on the leaks. Fine, they both have their strategies for political drama for the the hearings.

Fine, let Mr. Comey investigate. But I believe Comey to be a bumbling idiot with terrible judgement. My opinion of him was cast when took a 3rd bite at the Hillary email thingy. His announcement that they had found Weiner's laptop had Hillary's email on it and were investigating her more, and 24 or 48 hours later hopping up to say, 'welp, nothing there; they're emails we already have!'. Hey dumbass, why not just wait the 24/48 hours to see if there's anything there before speaking up? The guy's a boob.

Throughout the Hillary email issue he violated the FBI policy of not commenting on investigations; not confirming that they're investigating. Well, here he is again. It didn't escape my notice that he declined comment, as per FBI policy, on any investigation of the leak. Yet, there he goes again overriding FBI policy by announcing an investigation into collusion during the election. I don't know what to make of the guy (other than he's an idiot with bad judgement.)

No one has come forth with any evidence of collusion. Clapper has said there's no evidence of it. All you have is Comey saying the FBI is investigating. A year ago I might have been somewhat alarmed by his statement. Now, after the Hillary email debacle? No, you gotta be kidding me.

However, I'm very alarmed that our govt institutions now look both incompetent and politicized. I'm faaaaar more worried about that than some alleged Russian hacking. I expect them (and us) to do that. I expect them to try and influence our elections. I expect (and support) us trying to influence theirs. I publicly supported (here at ATPN) the Obama admin and Hilary trying to influence the Ukraine elections. This so much 'business as usual'.

Now, having one US politician collude with a foreign govt to influence our election is NOT 'business as usual'. But before I get my panties in a bunch I wanna see something. At this point I haven't even seen a decent conspiracy theory as to why and how this could even occur. Maybe someone on a proggy websites has fleshed it out (if so, link me up pls). Over here at ATPN, and in the news, every accusation of collusion I've seen is exceedingly vague amounting to not much more than 'OMG! Russians! Collusion!' I want to see some accusations, even if no evidence whatsoever, of how Trump colluded and why Trump colluded. What's he accused of giving as a quid pro quo etc?

Fern
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I'm still trying to figure out what & why a Russian Ambassador & known recruiter of spy's was doing at the RNC. I get that its his job to meet Politicians but the RNC couldn't say wait a few days or have the Ambassador meet Candidates with the press present?

He's there to experience the effectiveness of a massive propaganda effort firsthand. For some things, you just have to be there. He had to be telling himself that these people have to be the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet to fall for Trump's bullshit.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,149
55,682
136
I'm not "disputing" that he made "materially false" statements. He is. I'm saying (for the umpteenth time) IDK and am waiting to see what the transcript says. My refusal to take your word for it is not 'disputing"; it's simply skepticism

You're acting as if you know what was said. If you don't know, you can't reasonably make such assertions.

This is crazy and easily, provably false. I don't need to know what was said. The FBI asked him if he talked to the Russians and he said no. That was a lie.

Easy peasy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...a-a83e627dc120_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop


I don't see any claim of "espionage". I see a claim of possible collusion to influence an election. And I have seen Clapper say there's no evidence of it.

The idea that two people would collude to have someone elected as president and then share no information is preposterous and you know it. Why even bother with that nonsense?

I think it's you who demonstrating the partisanship. Look, everybody knows that the Dems want the focus on the election stuff and you're here representing their wishes. Again, already Clapper has said there is no evidence for it. So I find it hard to get all excited about it. And we know that the Repubs want to focus on the leaks. Fine, they both have their strategies for political drama for the the hearings.

Fine, let Mr. Comey investigate. But I believe Comey to be a bumbling idiot with terrible judgement. My opinion of him was cast when took a 3rd bite at the Hillary email thingy. His announcement that they had found Weiner's laptop had Hillary's email on it and were investigating her more, and 24 or 48 hours later hopping up to say, 'welp, nothing there; they're emails we already have!'. Hey dumbass, why not just wait the 24/48 hours to see if there's anything there before speaking up? The guy's a boob.

Throughout the Hillary email issue he violated the FBI policy of not commenting on investigations; not confirming that they're investigating. Well, here he is again. It didn't escape my notice that he declined comment, as per FBI policy, on any investigation of the leak. Yet, there he goes again overriding FBI policy by announcing an investigation into collusion during the election. I don't know what to make of the guy (other than he's an idiot with bad judgement.)

This is all irrelevant. The whole point is the FBI is nonpartisan.

No one has come forth with any evidence of collusion. Clapper has said there's no evidence of it. All you have is Comey saying the FBI is investigating. A year ago I might have been somewhat alarmed by his statement. Now, after the Hillary email debacle? No, you gotta be kidding me.

The idea that you think the FBI investigating the president for possible collusion with a foreign power is nothing is frankly insane. You've totally lost it.

However, I'm very alarmed that our govt institutions now look both incompetent and politicized. I'm faaaaar more worried about that than some alleged Russian hacking. I expect them (and us) to do that. I expect them to try and influence our elections. I expect (and support) us trying to influence theirs. I publicly supported (here at ATPN) the Obama admin and Hilary trying to influence the Ukraine elections. This so much 'business as usual'.

Now, having one US politician collude with a foreign govt to influence our election is NOT 'business as usual'. But before I get my panties in a bunch I wanna see something. At this point I haven't even seen a decent conspiracy theory as to why and how this could even occur. Maybe someone on a proggy websites has fleshed it out (if so, link me up pls). Over here at ATPN, and in the news, every accusation of collusion I've seen is exceedingly vague amounting to not much more than 'OMG! Russians! Collusion!' I want to see some accusations, even if no evidence whatsoever, of how Trump colluded and why Trump colluded. What's he accused of giving as a quid pro quo etc?

Fern

I think the news you consume is extremely biased based on what you've said in this thread. You've repeatedly said demonstrably false things and repeated right wing talking points.

The point is that the president is under investigation for possibly colluding with a hostile foreign power. We will see where that leads.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,244
136
James Clapper did not mean what Fern and others on the right think he means. By "evidence" he means direct evidence, like a smoking gun. He said in the same interview that he supports investigating to get to the "bottom of this." Without at least some circumstantial evidence, there is no basis to allocate significant government resources toward an investigation. A mere allegation doesn't cause the FBI to assign 15-20 people to a task force to investigate going on 9 months now and continuing. Not to mention people in the NSA and CIA.

Clapper also contradicted himself by referring to the report he presented as "evidence," and suggesting that maybe "more evidence" was uncovered after he left. That's all in the same interview. He contradicted himself because he wasn't being legally precise in the way he used the word "evidence." Words like "evidence" and "proof" can mean different things depending on who is using them and the context.

We'll find out next week when Clapper testifies that his assessment of this is no different than Comey's or anyone else's. Adam Schiff understands the distinction between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence, and will question Clapper on what he really meant. Then your talking point will be dead.

Enjoy it while it lasts.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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I do love Repubs going on about evil leakers compromising national security as if it were in the national interest for Flynn's deceptions to remain hidden...

Trump only went on the wiretapping rant to distract from Sessions lying to Congress & it blew up in his face.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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This is crazy and easily, provably false. I don't need to know what was said. The FBI asked him if he talked to the Russians and he said no. That was a lie.

Nope wrong again.

He didn't deny he talked to the Russian ambassador.

The allegation is that he lied about the content of their discussion ("sanctions")..
Fern
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,149
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136
Nope wrong again.

He didn't deny he talked to the Russian ambassador.

The allegation is that he lied about the content of their discussion ("sanctions")..
Fern

Right, and he lied about that. We have no idea what other communications with the Russians he may have lied about.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Nope wrong again.

He didn't deny he talked to the Russian ambassador.

The allegation is that he lied about the content of their discussion ("sanctions")..
Fern
Right, and he lied about that. We have no idea what other communications with the Russians he may have lied about.

We don't even know if that version is true, given that it's from the Trump Admin.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Trump only went on the wiretapping rant to distract from Sessions lying to Congress & it blew up in his face.

Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.
 
Jan 25, 2011
17,120
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Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.
What? This in no way validates what Trump said. Not if you want to base it on his actual words and not some twisted interpretation to try and fit with anything even remotely existing in reality. They were not surveilling Trump tower. How do you arrive at this conclusion?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,118
31,108
136
Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.

Wow, just wow.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,876
3,303
136
Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.

that is complete BS, Americans are caught in foreign surveillance and have been for decades and the unmasking of those Americans is not that uncommon.

and none of that has anything to do with what Trump tweeted, accusing Obama of Nixon like crimes.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,657
17,248
136
Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.

Do your lips get chapped from all that trump ball kissing you do?

What has been absolutely confirmed its that people in the trump admin (now or in the past) are in fact under an investigation. Something the right had string feelings for when it was a possibility of Hillary being investigated as president. And yet...well rudder illustrates their response quite nicely.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,926
31,457
146
Well it finally seems Trump was right about the wiretapping. So if there is no warrant to wiretap someone and they are recorded... then any reports are to have peoples names redacted. Seems likely that someone was identifying people from the FBI's Trump tower survellience who were not covered by a warrant.

lol.

keep smoking that baby pipe I guess. By the way, your posts are far more entertaining in a "look at what that kid said!" kind of way when one imagines your avatar making them.

:D
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
What? This in no way validates what Trump said. Not if you want to base it on his actual words and not some twisted interpretation to try and fit with anything even remotely existing in reality. They were not surveilling Trump tower. How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Well they were listening in on Trump tower.... not investigating Trump but a tenant. Right before obama left office he sure made it easier to for leakers to hide their tracks. Hate Trump all you want... that is fine... but for fucks sake please be at least concerned about intelligence agencies not following the law.

Hillary lost the election because she was Hillary.... not because of the Russians.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Well they were listening in on Trump tower.... not investigating Trump but a tenant. Right before obama left office he sure made it easier to for leakers to hide their tracks. Hate Trump all you want... that is fine... but for fucks sake please be at least concerned about intelligence agencies not following the law.

Hillary lost the election because she was Hillary.... not because of the Russians.

I've kind of figured that all of this hoopla was around Manafort actually and that the FBI has had a finger on him for quite some time. Trump sort of stumbled into the picture and they started listening once it sounded juicy.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Well they were listening in on Trump tower.... not investigating Trump but a tenant. Right before obama left office he sure made it easier to for leakers to hide their tracks. Hate Trump all you want... that is fine... but for fucks sake please be at least concerned about intelligence agencies not following the law.

Hillary lost the election because she was Hillary.... not because of the Russians.
Everything indicates the law was followed. Warrants were obtained. There is no reason to be concerned here. This isn't Watergate. There's no break-ins and secret bugging. Clench your pearls all you want but the reality is your fears here are based on nothing real.

I mean you're really going to try and validate Trumps claims with something that occurred lawfulling YEARS before the campaign began? Russian criminals were bugged that were tenants 3 floors below Trump. Again. Russian criminals. Kind of funny if you think about it huh?
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
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Hillary lost the election because she was Hillary.... not because of the Russians.

Not a fair statement. I may be slightly off on the numbers, but the numbers I've seen were a 0.8% and 1.8% shift in votes in two states respectively would have meant a win for Hillary. To help Trump win the election Russia hacked and released emails that tarnished Hillary's campaign, they also pushed fake news stories from Breitbart, Infowars etc. on social media.

To say that this had 0% of an effect on the election outcome is preposterous, their interference certainly had some effect. How many votes they swung Trump's way and where those votes were swung is impossible to determine. There is no way to quantify the degree to which they helped Trump's campaign, the safe statement is that it had some effect, how much is unknown. Certainly there was not a shortage of voters soiling themselves over the emails and gullible fools who bought into the crazy fake news stories being spread about Hillary.

In an election that was that close, where Trump soundly lost the popular vote, and won by a razor's edge of a margin the electoral college votes he needed; it's a reasonable possibility that he won because of Russia's aid, just not a certainty.

What a sad state of affairs that the POTUS may only be in his position because of Russia and Putin's interference. Clearly they had America's best interests at heart of course and wanted the best candidate for the country to win....
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Let's be optimistic that one day liberals will understanding that leaking recorded phone calls involving US citizens is illegal.

Fern
I agree, leaking a recorded phone call involving a US citizen is illegal. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. Hacking the DNC was also illegal and I've very glad it happened. Draining the swamp involves lifting rocks and shining the light on the scurrying cockroaches, to badly mix a metaphor, and whether or not lifting that particular rock is legal it's certainly a good thing for the nation. I like Flynn and frankly could not care less if he talked to the Russians about sanctions, but he lied to the FBI; ergo he must be kicked out. Can't have people in power who are above the law, and if it takes a felony to produce the necessary political will to do that, so be it. I can only hope the felon remains uncaught since he's done us a service here.

It's amusing that the Pubbies are now doing the exact same thing the Dems did - trying to make the leak the story instead of what the leak revealed. Didn't work then and it certainly isn't going to work now. People are smarter than that.