Obama had Trumps phone tapped?

[ivwshane]

And if they had sufficient probable cause to do so?

Lol! You think he's capable of thinking rationally past the latest right wing talking points? No. In his mind evil progressives have complete control of government and when requesting a warrant to spy on a US citizen, no justification is required or its because the fisa judge is in on it too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Because that would mean that the Obama administration asked for that wiretap.

What it would have meant is that someone in the administration sought a wiretap, however a couple things. First and most important is that there was no wiretap. If indeed there was a FISA order it was on a server from all accounts. In any case Comey is hardly anyone's political favorite and Obama clearly couldn't step on him as Comey's release of reports against Hillary indicate. So it comes down to Trump providing whatever evidence he says he has otherwise there's no basis for an investigation. "He dunnit" isn't sufficient, but as I've said I'd like to see this pursued to the end if for no other reason that nonsense allegations cannot be permitted to stand in perpetuity.

 

[alien42]

Because that would mean that the Obama administration asked for that wiretap.

i'm by far an expert on the subject, but you have absolutely no clue how a FISA request works and who requests them.

the funniest thing about this whole thing is that if Trump was actually speaking the truth, it would mean that he is in deeper shit than if he isn't (which is reality).

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Lol! You think he's capable of thinking rationally past the latest right wing talking points? No. In his mind evil progressives have complete control of government and when requesting a warrant to spy on a US citizen, no justification is required or its because the fisa judge is in on it too.

I think it good to remember that there wasn't a wiretap on Trump or his people to begin with. Any communications were coincidental to listening in to the Russians. If a tap were made regardless of probably cause or not Trump can simply say without any details that a FISA wiretap was done on such and such a date as well as the party or parties involved. Pretty much everything else is specious.

 

[Younigue]

So, I just watched an interview with Leon Panetta on Face the Nation concerning the wiretap allegation. I started giggling because it occurred to me how very strange it sounds to have someone who held such a prestigious positron talking about "tweeting". Over and over he had to use this word and it made me uncomfortably amused.

 

[MrSquished]

Hmmm...

In January Deutsche Bank was fined "$630m for failing to prevent $10 billion of Russian money laundering and exposing the UK financial system to the risk of financial crime." This involved Deutsche Bank offices in New York, Moscow, and... Cyprus. Involved in this scheme were close relatives and longtime friends of Putin.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ined-630m-over-russia-money-laundering-claims

When the Deutsche Bank CEO during this scandal, Josef Ackermann, was forced out, he landed as the new chairman of the Bank of Cyprus. Among the major investors in the Bank of Cyprus are "Viktor Vekselberg, a longtime ally of the Russian president, and Vladimir Strzhalkovsky, the former vice-chairman of Bank of Cyprus who is also a former KGB agent with a close relationship to Putin.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/27/commerce-nominee-wilbur-ross-bank-of-cyprus-putin

It should be noted that Cyprus is considered the Cayman Islands of Russian oligarchs.

Another of the major shareholders in the bank is Dmitry Rybolovlev, aka "The King of Fertilizer," one of the richest men in Russia and known world wide for having maybe the most expensive divorce in modern history. During the divorce he was accused by his wife of "secreting and transferring assets in order to avoid his obligations." Basically, he bought a bunch of stuff - real estate, mostly, but in ways that his wife couldn't claim them in the divorce. One of these properties was the most expensive condos in New York, an $88m 10 room apartment overlooking Central Park, which he bought under his daughters name, who was a college student at the time.

But another property he bought, a mansion in Florida, "The House of Friendship," from our President Donald Trump in 2008. This mansion was built in 2001 by a crazy billionaire, who went bankrupt in 2004. Trump bought it at auction for $40 million in 2006. It sat empty for two years, rotting. Nobody wanted it, it wasn't desirable, etc. In 2008, Rybolovlev, during his divorce, needing somewhere to park his money so his wife couldn't get access to it, bought this mansion from Trump for $100 million. In cash. That's two and a half times what Trump bought it for, with no improvements to the structure. Reporters suggest Rybolovlev has never set foot on the property since the sale. Also, both he and Trump have both claimed, many times, that they never met, and only worked through intermediaries. This was the largest price paid for a single American house, ever, during the financial meltdown, and they never met, once, to discuss the details.

So..How did they meet? Why did the "King of Fertilizer" basically give Trump $60 million? Who were the intermediaries? Remember the Bank of Cyprus, where Rybolovlev is a major shareholder? The vice-chairman of this bank, who otherwise has almost no background in international finance, is none other than longtime friend of Donald Trump AND our new Commerce Secretary, Wilbur Ross. So Trump makes almost $60 million, for doing almost nothing, by selling to a Russian shareholder of a bank run by friends of Putin's and stuffed with the ill-gotten fortunes of Russian oligarchs, where his longtime friend happens to be a vice-chairman. And that vice-chairman is now our Commerce Secretary. Oh, also, Deutsche Bank, the one that just paid a $630 million fine for laundering Russian money, is somehow, the largest creditor to the Trump organization. When Trump got this $60 million windfall from an Russian investor he never met, he was struggling to pay back $40 million in loans to... Deutsche bank. Hmmm...Nice timing!

I'm Cypriot and there is definitely a lot of Russian money in Cyprus. Also Russian mafia. They run strip clubs and brothels among other things. Turns out russian women are very beautiful. The mafiosos generally stick to only fucking with each other. It's a small country, only about 1.1 million people but hopefully they can eradicate the negative Russian influence sooner than later.

 

[Humpy]

So, I just watched an interview with Leon Panetta on Face the Nation concerning the wiretap allegation. I started giggling because it occurred to me how very strange it sounds to have someone who held such a prestigious positron talking about "tweeting". Over and over he had to use this word and it made me uncomfortably amused.

Think of the future history books that will describe famous speeches and writings of past Presidents, then get to Trump and have to try to explain his legacy of crazy tweets.

 

[rudder]

What it would have meant is that someone in the administration sought a wiretap, however a couple things. First and most important is that there was no wiretap. If indeed there was a FISA order it was on a server from all accounts. In any case Comey is hardly anyone's political favorite and Obama clearly couldn't step on him as Comey's release of reports against Hillary indicate. So it comes down to Trump providing whatever evidence he says he has otherwise there's no basis for an investigation. "He dunnit" isn't sufficient, but as I've said I'd like to see this pursued to the end if for no other reason that nonsense allegations cannot be permitted to stand in perpetuity.

Where is the FISA order for Flynn whose was subject to a wiretap prior to being confirmed. Surely the Russians did not tap their own guy in order to leak the conversation to the media. Someone tapped that phone.

Also in his last days, obama made it a lot easier for leaks to come out of the various intelligence agencies. He signed the order to allow intelligence agencies to share intel regardless of whether it was verified. This makes it a lot mor difficult to find the source of the leaks.

 

[Grooveriding]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-directed-alleged-wire-tapping-cia-director/story?id=45950046

The US is now off the charts and in another galaxy. It's no longer alternative facts, it's alternative reality. Sitting POTUS makes up lies and spreads conspiracy theories over Twitter to try and cause smoke to cover the disaster that is his administration and the fact his election bid was helped by Russia.

Captain Trump is piloting the ship into the twilight zone with his fanatics in tow.

 

[agent00f]

Where is the FISA order for Flynn whose was subject to a wiretap prior to being confirmed. Surely the Russians did not tap their own guy in order to leak the conversation to the media. Someone tapped that phone.

Also in his last days, obama made it a lot easier for leaks to come out of the various intelligence agencies. He signed the order to allow intelligence agencies to share intel regardless of whether it was verified. This makes it a lot mor difficult to find the source of the leaks.

In your defense that House Intelligence Committee chairman retard Devin Nunes (-R of course) also couldn't figure out that intel agencies like the CIA have discretion to spy on foreign nationals, of which the Russia Ambassador is a good candidate.

In both your defenses, conservatives fill their brain with garbage from fake news, which aren't the most informative of sources.

 

[Younigue]

Think of the future history books that will describe famous speeches and writings of past Presidents, then get to Trump and have to try to explain his legacy of crazy tweets.

I know!

But Tang Thang never looks to be dignified. He's not worried about his legacy because he writes it and looks pretty good.

Leon Panetta looked pained to have to keep using the word. I could almost hear in my mind him telling someone in a defeated tone. I never thought I'd have to say the word tweet professionally so many times.

 

[HomerJS]

Think of the future history books that will describe famous speeches and writings of past Presidents, then get to Trump and have to try to explain his legacy of crazy tweets.

So who's more nuts? The nut or the nuts that elected a known nut??

 

[ivwshane]

So who's more nuts? The nut or the nuts that elected a known nut??

Clearly they are from the same bowl.

 

[Younigue]

Clearly they are from the same bowl.

And been sitting on the bar for days. No one wants them.

 

[werepossum]

are you speaking as a "turmp supporter would" or, because you think that this actually means Obama would have ordered a FISA warrant? I can't tell half the time with you. 😀

Neither, really. But if there was wiretapping of Trump - and Trump saying so is in no way evidence - then a sitting President's administration wiretapped the opposition. That is beyond Watergate, and even the mainstream media could not prevent serious political damage.

Personally I don't think Obama is that stupid. I suspect this is merely Trump trying to spin campaign officials caught in other wiretaps to deflect the conversation, exactly as the Democrats tried to make the DNC hack the story to deflect from the content. I doubt it works as Trump only has some of FoxNews, which certainly cannot control the narrative.

 

[werepossum]

And if they had sufficient probable cause to do so?

I don't think one party could ever have sufficient probable cause to wiretap the other party's candidate. That would require a smoking gun so big you could see it from space. That would mean we have gone full banana republic.

 

[Younigue]

I definitely think Obama is too smart. He was a Constitutional Lawyer before he was President right? To misstep in such an egregious way... not likely.

 

[werepossum]

Shee-it, Sherlock. Proof of the existence of a request or a warrant is right at the fingertips of Donald J Trump.

So where is it? I suppose we'll have to wait for congress to request it, huh?

If it happened legally, then yes, Trump could prove it. That doesn't necessarily mean he would though. There might be embarrassing things which would be unveiled. If it was illegal, then it would be almost impossible to prove, but also wouldn't have really helped Hillary. Without provenance, it would be seen as just another attempt to deflect from the content of the DNC hack.

Of course, that is all assuming there was a wiretap on anything directly related to Trump. Wiretapping the opposing candidate would almost certainly be a net losing action.

 

[werepossum]

I definitely think Obama is too smart. He was a Constitutional Lawyer before he was President right? To misstep in such an egregious way... not likely.

No, he was never a Constitutional lawyer. He did teach Constitutional law though, and styled himself a professor although he never had the title. He has some very scary ideas about the Constitution, but he's no idiot, and I think it would take an idiot to wiretap the opposing candidate.

 

[werepossum]

What it would have meant is that someone in the administration sought a wiretap, however a couple things. First and most important is that there was no wiretap. If indeed there was a FISA order it was on a server from all accounts. In any case Comey is hardly anyone's political favorite and Obama clearly couldn't step on him as Comey's release of reports against Hillary indicate. So it comes down to Trump providing whatever evidence he says he has otherwise there's no basis for an investigation. "He dunnit" isn't sufficient, but as I've said I'd like to see this pursued to the end if for no other reason that nonsense allegations cannot be permitted to stand in perpetuity.

If that's what Trump is referencing. Personally I never try to correlate Trump's pronouncements with known reality. That's a sure fire migraine.

 

[FIVR]

No, he was never a Constitutional lawyer. He did teach Constitutional law though, and styled himself a professor although he never had the title. He has some very scary ideas about the Constitution, but he's no idiot, and I think it would take an idiot to wiretap the opposing candidate.

Wiretap what opposing candidate? You do realize Obama wasn't running against Trump, right?



You are an actual American citizen, right?

 

[Younigue]

No, he was never a Constitutional lawyer. He did teach Constitutional law though, and styled himself a professor although he never had the title. He has some very scary ideas about the Constitution, but he's no idiot, and I think it would take an idiot to wiretap the opposing candidate.

Thank you. I could have looked that up but I didn't. Bunch of smart people here so I figured I'd get the low down. Any way, I agree. I don't think he'd flout the law with any kind of transparency. If he did, it won't be easy to find or prosecute.

 

[werepossum]

i'm by far an expert on the subject, but you have absolutely no clue how a FISA request works and who requests them.

the funniest thing about this whole thing is that if Trump was actually speaking the truth, it would mean that he is in deeper shit than if he isn't (which is reality).

Perhaps you should endeavor to become even less of a not-expert before throwing stones, as a great many Executive Branch entities can request wiretaps (among other forms of surveillance) through FISA. The President can also authorize such a wiretap without using FISA, but as that requires a written afadavit from the AG, I think we can rule that out. The more smart people have to be stupid to do something, the less likely that thing happens.

 

[werepossum]

Wiretap what opposing candidate? You do realize Obama wasn't running against Trump, right?



You are an actual American citizen, right?

Please try to hold the stupidity down to normal Trump Derangement Levels.

 

[FIVR]

LOL tell that to the guy who didn't know who Trump ran against a few months ago... oh wait.



EDIT: Wait! They made you an "Elite Member". RFLMAO!!!! Best joke ever mods!