Obama: "Drilling on Public Lands has Not Decreased"

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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So as soon as Obama came into office we were capable of drilling and expanding production? :confused:

I'm not a big expert on oil drilling so not sure how many years in advance the industry needs to get rolling to raise production, unless it's just a purely administrative rule problem and the President can simply give a blessing and they pump more oil. :confused:
This is true. What has lagged under Obama are lease sales, which bodes poorly for the future. Whether or not this leads to a future shortage when those leases would have been expected to begin drilling and later producing isn't quite so simple though. If predicted oil prices are low, or regulatory burdens are high, oil companies can't afford to operate that many wells and the low number of leases sold might not make that much difference. If predicted demand is low, oil companies won't need extra production and the low number of leases sold might not make that much difference. On the other hand, if demand improves and prices remain high, then the low number of leases sold might make a hell of a lot of difference and we'll see skyrocketing prices - which of course hurts the economy, lowers demand, and eases prices. Hard to guess, but if fracking continues to deliver improved yields we might not miss the potential extra oil. And in any case, oil companies are hardly likely to pump out enough oil to really drop prices no matter how many leases are sold.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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But it isn't our oil. Oh we may consume some but it goes to the highest bidder AKA the market, speculative pressures and all. We're like a farmer who instead of reserving some crops for personal use goes to the market and pays full price. What we drill goes into the global market, not directly injected at cost. Thats why I posted an alternative earlier.

The vast majority of the oil we produce in the US (especially the lower 48) is consumed right here. Its just cheaper to refine it here and distribute it through our pipelines than it is to ship it overseas.

Still, that is very easy to resolve with a congressional bill that goes along with our new aggressive drilling strategy.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Unless we untie domestic oil production from the market as I've suggested.

But this isn't about cost of oil its about the source. I have never suggested, nor would I, that increasing domestic production will have any significant impact on oil prices.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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The cost plus fee concept is not uncommon. Keep a close check on the books and pay enough for a profit. Private business gets some benefit and any market added costs are eliminated. This ought to be part of a holistic approach to improve the economy, but I'm sure I hurt some brains already. I do have comprehensive suggestions, some of which I've posted over time, but I suspect that new ideas are too difficult for many, especially the political partisans. Often it's difficult to get a point across because democrat or republican is something they need as part of their conceptual framework.

I don't mind your idea at all but we will still be forced to import a LOT of oil from Canada and Mexico and they are going to demand market rate. So how do you separate the two supplies that have vastly different costs? Do we have "USA gas stations" that sell gas much cheaper than the others? Do we let the politicians guess what the blended cost will be at year end?

It doesn't sound like an unsolvable problem but it is a problem.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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This is true. What has lagged under Obama are lease sales, which bodes poorly for the future. Whether or not this leads to a future shortage when those leases would have been expected to begin drilling and later producing isn't quite so simple though. If predicted oil prices are low, or regulatory burdens are high, oil companies can't afford to operate that many wells and the low number of leases sold might not make that much difference. If predicted demand is low, oil companies won't need extra production and the low number of leases sold might not make that much difference. On the other hand, if demand improves and prices remain high, then the low number of leases sold might make a hell of a lot of difference and we'll see skyrocketing prices - which of course hurts the economy, lowers demand, and eases prices. Hard to guess, but if fracking continues to deliver improved yields we might not miss the potential extra oil. And in any case, oil companies are hardly likely to pump out enough oil to really drop prices no matter how many leases are sold.

Speaking strictly about US production, they aren't going to pump out enough oil to significantly effect prices regardless of how many leases we sell and how much oil they pump from those leases. That isn't what this conversation should be about. It should be about getting off of middle east oil for a variety of reasons, most of which I have laid out in this thread.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,046
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That is completely untrue. We could be off of ME oil in under 10 years if we got aggressive enough.

You are aware oil is a global commodity right? No amount of domestic production in that time frame could eliminate imports.

We might not have to source from the ME but we will still be subject to market pricing even if we're buying all of our imports Mexico and Canada.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
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What about the entire national security aspect of it? It sure would be nice to not have to be ass deep with our military in the ME wouldn't it?


The issue with being ass deep in the ME has nothing to do with production and everything to do with low cost production.

ME oil is cheap allowing higher margins for oil industry. if you want to blame ME involvement with oil, you have to accept who benefits directly from that.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
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What did he claim?


That little graph says production is lower this year than last and we're at a level lower than we were in 2005. :confused:

In case math has eluded you:
2009 527 105 632 +11.7%
2010 618 108 726 +14.9%
2011 514 112 626 - 13.8%

11.7 + 14.9 - 13.8 = 12.8

Thats the highest growth weve had since they started counting (when bush took office.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
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We have enough natural gas in the ground in the US for the US to be energy independent for the life time of those currently born and probably beyond.

Natural gas isn't massively profitable for the oil companies right now so leases are sitting untapped and wells have been capped off.

We don't need crude oil to be energy independent and we will never be energy independent if we continue to base our society off of crude oil.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
That is completely untrue. We could be off of ME oil in under 10 years if we got aggressive enough.
Oh, easily. But would that be a good thing? First, we'd be replacing cheap foreign oil with more expensive American oil, so fuel prices would rise sharply. I don't think doubling of gas prices is at all out of the question, and might be conservative.

Second, we'd be exhausting our own oil much more quickly. If we exhaust our own oil before we're ready to move away from oil, we become much more vulnerable to disruption and blackmail rather than less. We'd be trading long term security for short term security.

Third, we'd need a LOT of new equipment and infrastructure, and its useful life would likely decrease. To pump twice the volume from a given reservoir you need nearly twice the equipment and the reservoir is depleted roughly twice as fast. That's another factor which would tend to increase oil prices. We'd get a lot of good manufacturing jobs, but with the understanding that expertise in these jobs would be self-defeating within a couple decades as we ran out of oil to pump.

Fourth, we'd need fairly draconian rules and/or import/export taxes on oil, otherwise companies would still buy cheaper foreign oil and we'd have no market for our new excess. Besides the inherent dangers of empowering government, we could expect retaliation and World Court actions and sanctions from oil producing countries. That would also lead to more retaliation if we ran short on oil before we could technically and economically move to something else.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
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In case math has eluded you:
2009 527 105 632 +11.7%
2010 618 108 726 +14.9%
2011 514 112 626 - 13.8%

11.7 + 14.9 - 13.8 = 12.8

Thats the highest growth weve had since they started counting (when bush took office.

Shrug, I agree that Obama gets credit for it as he also gets credit for the bad things that happen under his watch yet were caused before he got into office but I can pretty much guarantee you his policies had nothing to do with the jumps in the first 2 years. It takes a long time to go from purchasing a lease to actually pumping oil out of the ground.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,393
1,026
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I work in the some of the largest gas fields in the country. if by "isn't massively profitable" you mean "loses money on production and can't find any more room in current pipelines" then you are correct.


and what do you mean "because bp" ? What does one spill/well have to do with overall production, besides the admins knee jerk reaction to shut down new drilling and some current production, and to loose those rigs and platforms forever?
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,594
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and what do you mean "because bp" ? What does one spill/well have to do with overall production, besides the admins knee jerk reaction to shut down new drilling and some current production, and to loose those rigs and platforms forever?

You answered your own question, I think. :D

knee-jerk, huh?

:hmm:
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
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Oh, easily. But would that be a good thing? First, we'd be replacing cheap foreign oil with more expensive American oil, so fuel prices would rise sharply. I don't think doubling of gas prices is at all out of the question, and might be conservative.

I don't understand. Oil prices are set globally so how would that double the price of gas? If the oil is not profitable to extract the oil companies will not extract it. Its that simple. They don't get to say "this cost us $200/bbl to extract so thats what we are charging" because all they would get is a bunch of middle fingers pointed at them.

Second, we'd be exhausting our own oil much more quickly. If we exhaust our own oil before we're ready to move away from oil, we become much more vulnerable to disruption and blackmail rather than less. We'd be trading long term security for short term security.

I disagree. We are continually finding new oil fields that we had no idea existed and some of them are huge. Who knows how much oil is in the deepwaters of the Gulf alone. Secondly, we can already start transitioning to other fuels right now its just a rather long process and frankly if your bet is that we will still be this reliant on oil in 50 years or so then whats it matter? It will still be a global commodity and we will still be paying global prices for it regardless of where it is produced.

Third, we'd need a LOT of new equipment and infrastructure, and its useful life would likely decrease. To pump twice the volume from a given reservoir you need nearly twice the equipment and the reservoir is depleted roughly twice as fast. That's another factor which would tend to increase oil prices. We'd get a lot of good manufacturing jobs, but with the understanding that expertise in these jobs would be self-defeating within a couple decades as we ran out of oil to pump.

I am talking about sinking new wells in new fields and new exploration, not necessarily expanding production of existing fields. So your above point isn't really valid.

Fourth, we'd need fairly draconian rules and/or import/export taxes on oil, otherwise companies would still buy cheaper foreign oil and we'd have no market for our new excess. Besides the inherent dangers of empowering government, we could expect retaliation and World Court actions and sanctions from oil producing countries. That would also lead to more retaliation if we ran short on oil before we could technically and economically move to something else.

Where is this "cheaper oil" you speak of? Yes, there are different grades of oil that have different globally set prices but you can look up what a barrel of oil costs right now, where does one go to purchase "cheaper oil" than that? Sure it might be cheaper to produce but it sure as hell isn't being sold cheaper, its being sold at market rate which is set globally. All that means is that whoever its being bought from makes more money not that we would actually get it cheaper.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
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I work in the some of the largest gas fields in the country. if by "isn't massively profitable" you mean "loses money on production and can't find any more room in current pipelines" then you are correct.


and what do you mean "because bp" ? What does one spill/well have to do with overall production, besides the admins knee jerk reaction to shut down new drilling and some current production, and to loose those rigs and platforms forever?

I assume you are talking about natgas, are the pipelines really running at capacity? I know natgas prices are WAY down right now but I didn't realize that our infrastructure was maxed out on delivering new product to the market.

I have long been a proponent of the .gov offering some sort of incentive to make our infrastructure feasible for natgas to be used as a transportation fuel. If what you say is true we should have done it long ago and be reaping the benefits as we speak.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
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ABC News Tonight just stated that Obama was wrong about oil drilling. It is down 40%, NOT up.
 
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herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,393
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ME sweet crude is much cheaper to produce and refine than heavy sour crude from somewhere like utah or wyoming and is sold at a different price.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,393
1,026
126
I assume you are talking about natgas, are the pipelines really running at capacity? I know natgas prices are WAY down right now but I didn't realize that our infrastructure was maxed out on delivering new product to the market.

I have long been a proponent of the .gov offering some sort of incentive to make our infrastructure feasible for natgas to be used as a transportation fuel. If what you say is true we should have done it long ago and be reaping the benefits as we speak.

yep. pipelines are full, We are using the pipelines to their limits to store gas. I agree on using gas for transportation fuel. It would sure help my income! I am making about half what I did a year ago.

also, no need to deliver new product if there is no demand for it.
I also think we need to start exporting it. There are plans for an LNG facility on the west coast, but I do not know when/if it will get aproval and be built.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,046
33,092
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I have long been a proponent of the .gov offering some sort of incentive to make our infrastructure feasible for natgas to be used as a transportation fuel. If what you say is true we should have done it long ago and be reaping the benefits as we speak.

Many states offer tax credits for CNG vehicles, the feds should get on that wagon too. Fleet operators are already starting to make the switch due to sustained high oil prices.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
ME sweet crude is much cheaper to produce and refine than heavy sour crude from somewhere like utah or wyoming and is sold at a different price.


issue is Say's law dictates that supply creates demand. Truth is if we had our own high cost oil on the market demand would dry the fuck up :)
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I don't understand. Oil prices are set globally so how would that double the price of gas? If the oil is not profitable to extract the oil companies will not extract it. Its that simple. They don't get to say "this cost us $200/bbl to extract so thats what we are charging" because all they would get is a bunch of middle fingers pointed at them.
You're assuming we can find enough new oil economically feasible at current rates to satisfy our demand if we simply open up the leases. I'm assuming that to meet our demand - to more than double our current production plus new demand within ten years - we would have to also utilize deposits that are not currently economically feasible, such as tar sands. To use those sources, prices would have to go up, which means they would have to be forcibly decoupled from global prices.

I disagree. We are continually finding new oil fields that we had no idea existed and some of them are huge. Who knows how much oil is in the deepwaters of the Gulf alone. Secondly, we can already start transitioning to other fuels right now its just a rather long process and frankly if your bet is that we will still be this reliant on oil in 50 years or so then whats it matter? It will still be a global commodity and we will still be paying global prices for it regardless of where it is produced.
We can and have found some massive reserves, but not I think at a rate that would meet our demand without significantly higher prices and/or new technologies. And as we've seen with hydraulic fracturing, these new technologies tend to bring with them significant environmental disadvantages as well.

I am talking about sinking new wells in new fields and new exploration, not necessarily expanding production of existing fields. So your above point isn't really valid.
To the extent we can find new wells and new reservoirs you are correct. I just don't think we can meet our demand within ten years without significantly increasing the rate at which we draw down reservoirs AND by using reservoirs with significantly higher costs. Lots of known deposits are still sitting idle waiting for prices to rise enough to make extraction feasible.

Where is this "cheaper oil" you speak of? Yes, there are different grades of oil that have different globally set prices but you can look up what a barrel of oil costs right now, where does one go to purchase "cheaper oil" than that? Sure it might be cheaper to produce but it sure as hell isn't being sold cheaper, its being sold at market rate which is set globally. All that means is that whoever its being bought from makes more money not that we would actually get it cheaper.
Right now American companies have but 40% IIRC of our market, so they exploit the cheapest reserves sufficient to meet that demand. They will pump as much oil as possible from those deposits, or at least as much oil as possible without significant new capital investment, but they aren't going to develop new deposits which they believe to be so expensive to recover that their ROI will suffer. It's simply cheaper to buy imported oil. For instance, when a few years ago Saudi Arabia returned to our #2 supplier and Mexico dropped to #3 it wasn't because Mexico ran out of oil, but rather that Mexico ran out of sources exploitable at current market prices. If you're producing oil at $40/barrel and you can potentially produce more at $60/barrel, why do so when you know Saudi Arabia can produce it for $5/barrel? When you're making damned good money you don't get into a price war you know you'll lose. This is why I don't think American companies would produce enough new oil to make us energy dependent without regulatory and tax structures which make it economically feasible for them. Why would they reduce their ROI & risk a devastating price war? Certainly oil companies would love to have more freedom to look in more places and fewer and less restrictive regulations, but freedom to look doesn't necessarily translate to finding new, economically feasible deposits. There's a reason we found the massive, cheaply obtained oil fields of Texas and Oklahoma in the early parts of the least century; we were looking very, very hard and we found the easily obtained fields. There are small oil fields all over - for instance, Tennessee has a bunch, most of which were found in the seventies or earlier and not feasible to work until the last couple of decades - but we've probably found most of the large and cheaply recovered oil reservoirs in America.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,227
2,015
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Decreased 61% Offshore, 35% onshore.

If you see Obama's lips moving he's lying. Unless you catch him behind the scenes "getting more flexibility for Putin" or grandstanding in a church when he doesn't know a camera is on him.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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In case math has eluded you:
2009 527 105 632 +11.7%
2010 618 108 726 +14.9%
2011 514 112 626 - 13.8%

11.7 + 14.9 - 13.8 = 12.8

Thats the highest growth weve had since they started counting (when bush took office.

Great but you don't just add percentages. Is this how bad America is at math now?

The net is 10.6% or so, but yes a positive gain overall.