Obama compares 1950s USA to Nazi Germany

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Looked up the number of lynchings of blacks in the US and it was 3,437.

But it wasn't has much as Hitler so it doesn't count.

This thread, stupid from the first post, has brought out so much more stupidity it's hard to imagine. Instead of just saying the OP was wrong by suggesting Obama thought the the American 1950s were as bad as Nazi Germany, so many completely assed-up fools took a turn into la-la land with historically absurd comparison claims that the US in the 1950s was as bad as Nazi Germany. Wow... talk about overshadowing the ignorance of the OP.

As racially bad and divided as the US was in the 50s, particularly in the South, any rational person knows it bears no comparison to the most evil regime in modern history. And although some turds want to act like my claiming there's no comparison somehow means I'm ignoring the plight of Blacks in the 50s, all that really shows is a callous dishonesty... on top of their stupidity.

Yeah, that's it... it doesn't count :roll: Superb logic.

The US in the 1950s wasn't as bad, fine, I was pissed at the OP for defending the 1950s and made a knee-jerk post.
The federal government was in the end a force for good, unlike Nazi Germany, and a large portion of our citizenry worked to end segregation.

But how can you say there's no comparison when the southern states' elected governments legally subjugated an entire race of people to second class citizenship? Those state governments didn't do anything to stop terrorism and murder, and even allowed hidden slavery to continue.

By the way, notice how conservatives keep using words like "racially divided" and "divisive", rather than words like "opression" and "bigotry". No wonder you don't like the comparison- You see the Jim Crow and Civil Rights Movement as a sports rivalry or playground tussle.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Looked up the number of lynchings of blacks in the US and it was 3,437.

But it wasn't has much as Hitler so it doesn't count.

This thread, stupid from the first post, has brought out so much more stupidity it's hard to imagine. Instead of just saying the OP was wrong by suggesting Obama thought the the American 1950s were as bad as Nazi Germany, so many completely assed-up fools took a turn into la-la land with historically absurd comparison claims that the US in the 1950s was as bad as Nazi Germany. Wow... talk about overshadowing the ignorance of the OP.

As racially bad and divided as the US was in the 50s, particularly in the South, any rational person knows it bears no comparison to the most evil regime in modern history. And although some turds want to act like my claiming there's no comparison somehow means I'm ignoring the plight of Blacks in the 50s, all that really shows is a callous dishonesty... on top of their stupidity.

Yeah, that's it... it doesn't count :roll: Superb logic.

Save me your feigned indignity and read the damn quote:

you?ve got the doctrines of Nazism that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.?

Fascism. Check.
Repression. Check.
Nationalism. Check.
Racism. Check.
Discrimination. Check.

You may not like it, but American history ebbs and flows in an ugly fashion. You are correct that the OP (and others) have gotten carried away but to claim there was no comparison then is simply false. And this ""Pro-America"" and coded racist divisive crap now is simply chilling and meant only to divide the country for partisan political purposes.

From Native Americans to the black, yellow and brown, the US is rascist, and certainly since WWII, hegemonic and imperialistic (and borderline fascist - especially today).

Weener is doing his typical bang-up job of fallacy, attack and duhversion. I'm not attacking you or your opinion but I see the parallels in what Obama said (and others have more than adequately explained them .... )

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

We have a way to go. And when we throw the current bunch of bums out (and hopefully convict a few) we will put in a new bunch of rascals and move America away from the precipice brought to us by the latest 'New Federalist' Republicans.

They deserve to be tossed out on their ass ....

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Am I the only sane person left on earth?

Segregation was real. Racial tension was real.

Mass genocide was in Nazi Germany, not America. If anyone can't tell the difference, nothing I can say will convince you.

You are illiterate if you can't tell the difference between "uncomfortably similar" and "same."
Obama never said that US was same as Nazi Germany, so get over it.

I may be illiterate, but Obama is far worse if he thinks that America was even REMOTELY similar to Nazi Germany.

The anti-communist fervor and racism of the 50s had a lot in common with fascism. The Nazis were fascists. Thus, some of our policies (many of which were unconstitutional) were similar to the ones adopted by Nazi Germany.

He didn't say we were identical to the Nazis. He didn't say we were rounding up blacks and keeping them in internment camps (we did that to the Japanese). He didn't say we were committing mass genocide. The pundits on this board seem to be very confused.

If you're oblivious to some of the fascist policies we adopted in the 50s, then you need to brush up on your history. It's as simple as that.

Edit: You don't need to commit mass genocide for a Nazi comparison to be fair. The Nazis were fascists. It's fair game to compare fascist policies to fascist policies.

I do want to clarify one thing. The Nazis' were national socialists, not Fascists. They share many ideas\ideals but there are differences. Many people lump them together due to the similarities but I dont believe they are one in the same.

One of the mains issues they disagreed on resolves around national racial purity and rascist policies that were implemented to attain this. Fascists in Italy were not interested in purging racial impurities from the ranks. They were quite against rascism. Unlike their National Socialist brothers up north.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Looked up the number of lynchings of blacks in the US and it was 3,437.

But it wasn't has much as Hitler so it doesn't count.

This thread, stupid from the first post, has brought out so much more stupidity it's hard to imagine. Instead of just saying the OP was wrong by suggesting Obama thought the the American 1950s were as bad as Nazi Germany, so many completely assed-up fools took a turn into la-la land with historically absurd comparison claims that the US in the 1950s was as bad as Nazi Germany. Wow... talk about overshadowing the ignorance of the OP.

As racially bad and divided as the US was in the 50s, particularly in the South, any rational person knows it bears no comparison to the most evil regime in modern history. And although some turds want to act like my claiming there's no comparison somehow means I'm ignoring the plight of Blacks in the 50s, all that really shows is a callous dishonesty... on top of their stupidity.

Yeah, that's it... it doesn't count :roll: Superb logic.

Save me your feigned indignity and read the damn quote:

you?ve got the doctrines of Nazism that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.?

Fascism. Check.
Repression. Check.
Nationalism. Check.
Racism. Check.
Discrimination. Check.

You may not like it, but American history ebbs and flows in an ugly fashion. You are correct that the OP (and others) have gotten carried away but to claim there was no comparison then is simply false. And this ""Pro-America"" and coded racist divisive crap now is simply chilling and meant only to divide the country for partisan political purposes.

From Native Americans to the black, yellow and brown, the US is rascist, and certainly since WWII, hegemonic and imperialistic (and borderline fascist - especially today).

Weener is doing his typical bang-up job of fallacy, attack and duhversion. I'm not attacking you or your opinion but I see the parallels in what Obama said (and others have more than adequately explained them .... )

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

We have a way to go. And when we throw the current bunch of bums out (and hopefully convict a few) we will put in a new bunch of rascals and move America away from the precipice brought to us by the latest 'New Federalist' Republicans.

They deserve to be tossed out on their ass ....

I've spent a large portion of the morning in a very conservative forum arguing that when they call Obama a Socialist, they don't know the meaning of the word, and that when they engage in hyperbole it does nothing for constructive discussion.

I'm going to say the same thing here. Clearly there was a the mentality on the part of some that it was OK to abuse or kill blacks. In that sense Obama is correct. It was socially institutionalized in specific areas, but even then it's easy to get into generalities. For example I know some people who lived in Arkansas before the race riots, and they were dirt poor. My grandparents had me take food to some of them (and startlingly for some, they were strong Conservatives). I knew them well enough to know if they had a choice to be just where they were or in a nazi death camp they wouldn't flip a coin. It was no comparison. Was it right? No. Was it easy? No. Did it deserve to be changed? Hell yeah, and it was.

What we have is a typical PN thread where many want to go to extremes to make something we know was bad equal to the worst that could be. That's dishonest.

It's like this. SOME Americans felt like the ruling Nazi party and were fine with doing whatever the Nazis did. Hanging? Gassing? Hey, go for it!
Then there were others who felt that Blacks were inferior. They had no wish to hurt them directly, but they weren't worth helping either. Back of the bus for them.
Then there were others who felt none of the above, but were more interested in the day to day Commie stuff. The conditions in which Blacks lived never touched them. That was perhaps the majority.
Then there were some who felt equality was necessary and acted for it.
Then there were those who felt such guilt, that they practically fell over themselves to give anything asked for.


That's pretty much the range of the American mentality at the time.

In Germany there were the same kinds of people. The difference was an added twist. The Nazis ruled, and any who opposed them were imprisoned or killed. It's all well and good point fingers at them and say how bad the Germans are, but I wonder how many armchair liberators would feel if they looked as a neighbors family hauled off, then looked at their own children. None I'll wager.

No, Nazi Germany was an entirely different creature than the US was. Were wrongs done in the US? You bet. Were they the same? No, not even close. I think Americans are too sheltered these days.

 

[Farang]

Let's go back to the original quote:

the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home

I don't think many people here are saying a black person in America in the 1950s would want to trade shoes with a Jew in Germany in the 1940s. What is being said here is that the "doctrines of Nazism . . . start looking uncomfortably similar" to what was going on in the U.S. I assume what is being referred to here is the idea of a superior race that rules and an inferior race that are second class citizens. I think Obama could have used a better example here because Nazi is a loaded term, but I agree with him that there wer "uncomfortable similarities." One was certainly worse than the other, but we can find many similarities in both situations that might make a black person uncomfortable.

 

[Drift3r]

The treatment of Blacks and other non-Whites/Protestants in the South and in other parts of the nation during the 50's and early times were akin to that received by Jews in Germany at the time prior to the "Final Solution" being enacted by the Nazi's. To deny other wise is just ridicules. Go look at the laws enacted against the Jews in Germany and then look at the laws enacted against Blacks and other minorities in the US. The two code of laws bare striking similarities in their treatment of those who were different then voting majority at the time. Sure there were no death camps in the US but lynchings, bombings and beatings occurred in enough numbers so as to not to be able to sweep them under the nice utopian view of the 50's that some people have foolishly put together in their mind. The civil rights movement and cultural revolution of the 50's-60's only came to be because of the great injustices during the preceding periods of time that instigated these movements and brought them to life. Of course the differences between the U.S .and NAZI Germany in terms of our legal system and legislative system being able to adapt/change were enough to ensure that we did not sink to the level of the NAZI's when it came to drinking from the racial kool-aid that groups like the KKK and pro-NAZI groups in the US prior to WW2 wanted us to do.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Farang
Let's go back to the original quote:

the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home

I don't think many people here are saying a black person in America in the 1950s would want to trade shoes with a Jew in Germany in the 1940s. What is being said here is that the "doctrines of Nazism . . . start looking uncomfortably similar" to what was going on in the U.S. I assume what is being referred to here is the idea of a superior race that rules and an inferior race that are second class citizens. I think Obama could have used a better example here because Nazi is a loaded term, but I agree with him that there wer "uncomfortable similarities." One was certainly worse than the other, but we can find many similarities in both situations that might make a black person uncomfortable.

Yup.

And one can safely cite similarities along with substantial dissimilarities .

Not a lot of 'black and white' but many shades of grey ...

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Looked up the number of lynchings of blacks in the US and it was 3,437.

But it wasn't has much as Hitler so it doesn't count.

This thread, stupid from the first post, has brought out so much more stupidity it's hard to imagine. Instead of just saying the OP was wrong by suggesting Obama thought the the American 1950s were as bad as Nazi Germany, so many completely assed-up fools took a turn into la-la land with historically absurd comparison claims that the US in the 1950s was as bad as Nazi Germany. Wow... talk about overshadowing the ignorance of the OP.

As racially bad and divided as the US was in the 50s, particularly in the South, any rational person knows it bears no comparison to the most evil regime in modern history. And although some turds want to act like my claiming there's no comparison somehow means I'm ignoring the plight of Blacks in the 50s, all that really shows is a callous dishonesty... on top of their stupidity.

Yeah, that's it... it doesn't count :roll: Superb logic.

Save me your feigned indignity and read the damn quote:

you?ve got the doctrines of Nazism that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.?

Fascism. Check.
Repression. Check.
Nationalism. Check.
Racism. Check.
Discrimination. Check.

You may not like it, but American history ebbs and flows in an ugly fashion. You are correct that the OP (and others) have gotten carried away but to claim there was no comparison then is simply false. And this ""Pro-America"" and coded racist divisive crap now is simply chilling and meant only to divide the country for partisan political purposes.

From Native Americans to the black, yellow and brown, the US is rascist, and certainly since WWII, hegemonic and imperialistic (and borderline fascist - especially today).

Weener is doing his typical bang-up job of fallacy, attack and duhversion. I'm not attacking you or your opinion but I see the parallels in what Obama said (and others have more than adequately explained them .... )

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

We have a way to go. And when we throw the current bunch of bums out (and hopefully convict a few) we will put in a new bunch of rascals and move America away from the precipice brought to us by the latest 'New Federalist' Republicans.

They deserve to be tossed out on their ass ....

I have no problem with the Obama quote and haven't attacked it. I have a problem with with some people saying 1950s America was as bad or worse than Nazi Germany. I don't even know what you're saying... I think it was an excuse to use the term "feigned indignity." :roll:

EDIT: I notice throckmorton admitted his statement was a bit rash and that's good to hear. :thumbsup:

 

[OrByte]

So im still waiting to see this issue get traction in the media.


should I keep waiting?

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: ironwing
1950s American conservatives were fascists. Race baiting, witch hunting, blacklisting bastards.

Yeah, I am not sure what the OP's point is. Maybe he has never heard of McCarthyism.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

I've spent a large portion of the morning in a very conservative forum arguing that when they call Obama a Socialist, they don't know the meaning of the word, and that when they engage in hyperbole it does nothing for constructive discussion.

I'm going to say the same thing here. ...

I agree... I think we've talked about using Nazi comparisons a few years ago... it's just not a good idea, unless you somehow give a lot of detailed explanation to specifics. Otherwise it just cheapens the issue of Nazi Germany AND the issue you're comparing it to.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Here we go again with right-wingers not understanding the idea of a comparison. They only think in black and white.

... well played.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Am I the only sane person left on earth?

No, but you are certainly ignorant. Maybe you should ask a white German citizen of the Nazi era if things were bad for them. I'm willing to bet that they would say everything was peachy, save for the war.

Except that whole freedom of speech, press, police state thing. Hope to god your neighbors didnt turn you into the Gestapo or be labeled a jew sympathizer or communist or enemy of the state. The list can go and on.

Dont toss stones in a glass house mmkay?

Have you seen the documentaries about the Nazi era when people said they were oblivious to what was really happening to the Jews? And don't try to confuse American rights with European rights. They are not the same.

Oblivious to the concentration camps? Possible they didnt know the extent of the carnage. But what does denying knowing a thing about concentration camps and the extent of the Nazi regimes attempts at racial purity have to do with what I wrote?

You think everything was peachy living under the Nazi's if you were white? Lots of whites went into the camps and never came back. In fact I am willing to bet you 100 bucks the Nazi's killed many many many more whites than they did other races in their quest for a racially pure state. They afterall implemented their policies in Europe and the Soviet Union. Not Asia, Africa, or South America. And yes they happily sent many white germans to their death for the cause as well.

What an absolutely confused argument you propose.

You are the one that's clearly confused, equating all whites with white Germans. The Nazis felt their Nordic race was superior to all others, including other whites. My point was that the general german population did not know the extent to the terror happening in their own country. Worse, they never saw it as their problem because the propaganda machine kept telling them how great they were. For Jews, it was pure terror.

That isnt what you wrote, you wrote their lives were peachy under Nazi rule which is a bunch of ignorant blissful thinking. Your implication of course is whites had it good under Nazi rule which is also more ignorant blissful thinking.

I dont need a highschool level lecture on the Nazi's. I know what their goals were and how they were trying to achieve them.

Can you not read? I clearly wrote "white German citizens".

 

[BudAshes]

America did have a similarity to nazi's in those days. The 60's saved us. What is your argument?

 

[Fern]

Another revealing thread.

A candidate says something stupid and their followers come out in droves to defend them with all types of silly arguments.

While "uncomfortably similar" != "same thing", that's an entirely disengenuous argument of little import beyond semantics.

If raising the existance of racial prejudice justifies a comparison to Nazis, then we all are guilty and the distinction the Nazis rightly earned has been meaningless; I can' agree with that.

There is racial prejudice everywhere when you have people mixing about with each other. I've traveled extensively and seen it everywhere: Mexico has it among their ethnic groups (indiginous v Euro derived population), France and Muslims, Hispanics and blacks, etc etc.

For Pete's sake, recognize that all candidates are not perfect - not even the one you support. Please stop acting like rabid fans shouting down all dissenting veiwpoints.

It seems entirely reasonable to disagree with the electiral impact this statement may have, but to contort oneself to ridculous porportions to justify it as accurate is over-the-top.

Fern

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The real problem is that you think 1950s America wasn't as bad as Nazi Germany.

Well, it wasn't. It sucked, it was boring, repressive, a lot of unpardonable things went on, they smeared a lot of our best citizens, got them fired, banned, bullied them into leaving the country. But what the Nazis did was world class in terms of being fucked up. They are history's poster boys for that. They were out and out thugs. "Read history, or the world's a mystery. Read or bleed people, learn or burn." - Dave Emory